The Future Of Sex

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the love lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you. We

Céline Remy 0:20
are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Celine Remy. And we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
Alright, welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 146. And it is titled The future of sex. Now people might be thinking, hasn’t sex pretty much been the same act since you know, like the beginning of time? What’s really going to change but it’s not so much that the penis in the vagina bit changes much. But it’s the attitudes of the people doing it. And the things that are socially acceptable, not socially acceptable, what people want in the bedroom, what they don’t want in the bedroom.

Kevin Anthony 1:02
And those things really do shift and change over time. So I think it’s actually really cool to check in at least once a decade or so and see like, you know, what’s the where’s the barometer at? You know, like, what are people wanting? What are they doing these days. And so on today’s show, we have a special guest who’s going to talk about that.

Kevin Anthony 1:23
And we’ll introduce her officially in just a moment. But what’s fascinating is, is that her organization did a pretty comprehensive survey and we have real statistics, real answers to answer these questions. We are not just going to look into a crystal ball and see what we think might be happening. We have some actual data on that.

Céline Remy 1:43
Yes, and it might not be what you expected. I was actually surprised by some of these things. I can’t wait to talk about this. But before we get started, let’s give a big shout-out to our sponsor’s power and mastery. So if you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed and check out power and mastery at power and mastery.com it is the most complete sexual mastery training for men.

Céline Remy 2:05
Whether you want to have harder erections last longer or increases sexual skills. There is something for you at power and mastery.com I’m always laughing because I guess never really know that the type of ads we’re going to be doing and like I love watching I guess faces when I’m like talking about erections and nothing longer. One time we had a couple on and the woman literally was like telling her I was like, No, no, we don’t say that in public.

Jessica Pels 2:38
I am here at my parent’s house. So this is the perfect place.

Céline Remy 2:44
they’re gonna love this. So today. Today we have Jessica Pels. She is the Cosmopolitan editor in chief and so she oversees the editorial for all of Cosmo’s efforts across print, digital video, and emerging platforms man things have changed a bit like they used to just be a magazine. And now there are all these different forms.

Céline Remy 3:07
She has served as the digital director of Mary Claire, and she’s worked with glum weren’t involved so many different platforms. She has launched an interactive e-commerce platform for a fashion tech startup. And in a former life, she was a ballet dancer and NYU film student. She lives in Manhattan with her scruffy dog, George. So welcome, Jessica to the love lab podcast.

Jessica Pels 3:33
Thanks for having me. I’m so excited.

Céline Remy 3:35
Yeah, you’re welcome.

Kevin Anthony 3:37
Well, that’s a pretty impressive resume, I must say. So, we have a real professional and expert on the show today, which we’re very excited about. And we’re going to just jump right in. So just to give us a little bit of a background and then I’m going to let you take the rest of it basically Cosmo did a survey.

Kevin Anthony 4:00
And we can talk about the details in a minute, where they went out and asked people how their sex life and their dating life has changed since COVID, with lockdowns and all that and where it was going in the future. What I think is really interesting about that is we’ve heard people talking about what was happening in the present. In other words, there are other people out there who say, Well, right now what’s going on in the dating scene, because COVID in lockdown is this.

Kevin Anthony 4:27
But I hadn’t really seen anybody until your survey tried to project out into the future about what are the long term effects that that could result from this massive, world-changing event that happened? So that my first question is what made you guys decide to go in a different direction? Why did you decide to try to forecast out into the future?

Jessica Pels 4:48
Exactly what you said. I felt the same way. I felt like you know a lot of the reporting that we were going to see we of course plan to this ages ago. Because print production schedules are quite long, but I knew that the reporting that we were going to see about relationships and dating and sex as a result of COVID would reflect what happened during COVID.

Jessica Pels 5:13
And I really wanted to differentiate ourselves, but also perform a service and help people understand what is coming, how to prepare for it, how to look ahead, and ideally, to tell a positive story as opposed to a negative one, I had the hunch that a lot of reporting around what happened during COVID would be inherently negative, and wanted to see if we could find a more positive view, we absolutely found it.

Jessica Pels 5:42
We also surprised ourselves by finding out that some of what happened during COVID was actually great for couples and for singles. So ultimately, good news all around. But I had exactly the same instinct, I wanted to do something different, our partners at Esquire, our pals at Esquire, we’re having similar conversations. And so we decided to team up and, and do this big project together.

Jessica Pels 6:04
Because Cosmo, of course, has a legacy of talking about sex from the woman’s perspective, Esquire has a legacy of doing so from the man’s perspective. And we felt like if we came together and pulled in our very respected colleagues at the Kinsey Institute, that we could do something that would feel really definitive.

Kevin Anthony 6:25
Yeah, and I love that you guys did that by bringing in the Kinsey Institute because it definitely lends even more credibility to the results on most people are familiar with the Kinsey Institute and what they do. So sometimes people go, you know, those magazine surveys, like, yeah, you know, take him or leave him.

Kevin Anthony 6:40
But yeah, but you guys, from what we can tell, at least anyway, actually really did like a good, not just a good-faith effort, but like you did a real solid survey. So I think that that means a lot for the results that we see.

Jessica Pels 6:54
Yeah, I love working with partners like Kinsey for that reason they can, they can make sure that our data set is nationally representative. And that’s exactly what we wanted. We didn’t want, you know, self-selected information. That was reported to us by people who were really interested in talking to us because those kinds of people are not necessarily reflective of the whole population.

Jessica Pels 7:17
And working with Kinsey was a really helpful way of, of not only making sure that we were asking, you know, questions of the right people, but that we ask them the right questions that got us to these really insightful answers.

Céline Remy 7:30
So I think it’s time that we dive into female masturbation as a good starting point.

Kevin Anthony 7:35
Just gonna dive right in.

Céline Remy 7:37
Oh, absolutely. So what do you think of the situation with COVID? With the lockdowns? I mean, a lot of people their dating life or it’s kind of like in a big halt. So then I’m imagining that thinking like, okay, masturbation has maybe changed, increased. What about female masturbation? Because it’s kind of like this idea, right? That. Okay, masturbation guys do that a lot. But maybe women don’t do it as much. And it’s totally silly, because we women, know what we do. Right. So tell us about that. In terms has it evolved? Has it changed? And what happened with it?

Jessica Pels 8:15
Yeah, one of the silver linings of COVID that we found through this project, is that you know, I don’t think men really needed any help, as you said around D stigmatizing. Self-pleasure, but women kind of did, there’s still, it seems ridiculous to me that that’s the case. But working in the job that I have, I see it all the time, there’s still this taboo. And COVID really helped to break that down.

Jessica Pels 8:43
That is absolutely what we saw. sex toy sales skyrocketed. We work with Lilo is a great provider of sex toys. And they’re they reported to us that their sales increased 250%. So so that’s absolutely something that we saw. And I think that’s a great thing, honestly, for now, and into the future.

Kevin Anthony 9:05
You know, a lot of people clearly saw that you know, toilet paper sales would go back on this stuff made a lot of sense, but who would have predicted that the sex toy industry would have just gone just blown up? That’s awesome. Okay, so that’s good. This is gonna take us to the next thing. Now. You know, there’s just want to tell the audience, there are way more findings in this report than we can really cover in this interview.

Kevin Anthony 9:34
So what we did was kind of cherry-pick some of the things that we thought would be really interesting to talk about, but we do recommend go read the whole thing because honestly, I would want to ask you about literally every one of these stats that are listed here because I find almost all of them really fascinating, but we cherry-picked so

Céline Remy 9:50
and if you want the full article, the link will be in the description in the description below too. So you can click and read it on Cosmo or Esquire.

Kevin Anthony 9:59
Okay, so the next one is this article makes a pretty strong stand that this is going to be the death of the one-night stand. So I’m curious if you could elaborate a little bit more on what that means. And then maybe tell us like, Okay, if the one-night stand is dead, what replaces?

Jessica Pels 10:18
Right. I think a lot of us expected that COVID would end singles would flood the streets and go absolutely wild. I was shocked to find that that is not the case. That is not what the people who were single during COVID reported to us that they want anymore. And I think there are a lot of interesting factors there.

Jessica Pels 10:39
The first is that you know, COVID brought a lot of us to low places that we didn’t want to go but had to and, and I think it’s sort of level set us all at this place of vulnerability, which made us think about what you what I need, what do I need, when I feel vulnerable, what makes me feel better. And for a lot of people, that’s companionship. And for the partners, the couples who were quarantined together, that made their partnerships actually stronger than I’m sure we’ll talk more about that later.

Jessica Pels 11:15
And for the singles, it made them realize that that’s a desire that they have, it also made them realize that the one-night stand is not necessarily a way to achieve that. It’s a way to check a box, it’s a way to go have an experience that can be fun, and it can be empowering. But when it comes to the emotional satisfaction of one nightstand of hookup culture, it seems like, on mass, we sort of realized that it’s just not there.

Jessica Pels 11:42
And you ask what would replace the one nightstand, it seems to me from the information that we have that what will replace it as maybe more like the three nightstands. And also that it will happen later. A lot of our survey respondents reported us 70%, reported to us that they did video dating during COVID. Because they had to, I thought that we would all want to abandon everything we had to do during COVID, including zoom.

Jessica Pels 12:08
But alas, they plan to keep it because they want to be really intentional about who they go out and meet. And so singles are very interested in vetting partners before they go out. They want to take longer to meet someone in person after they meet that person they want to take longer in order to have sex. So it’s it’s much less as a culture I think will be much less focused on, you know, just getting some and much more focused on getting something meaningful getting something good.

Kevin Anthony 12:37
Yeah, I found that really fascinating. And one, I think it’s spectacular because what I see is, the entire thing has helped people get in touch with what’s really important. Yeah. And I think, Oh, you know, for maybe even a few decades now, we’ve been getting further and further away from what’s really important.

Kevin Anthony 12:57
And we see the negative impacts of that rippling out through society. So something that can kind of give people a reset, like, oh, wait a minute, you know, what’s truly important to me is this. And now they’re actually taking steps to go out and get it, I find that to be a hugely positive thing.

Jessica Pels 13:15
I do too. And that was really the through-line of the entire survey was that everyone is interested in pursuing what really works for them. And in some capacities, that means, you know, being more intimate with a partner who before COVID, they had grown a little bit away from because life had taken them in a million different directions.

Jessica Pels 13:36
Or, you know, being a single who really wants to find committed partnership, or being someone who realizes that life is finite and wants to make sure that they have done a little bit more sexual experimentation. And so prioritizing that everyone seems to be really interested, keenly interested in, in prioritizing what works for them, what matters to them, and to have a better understanding of what you know, what does matter to them now.

Céline Remy 14:06
So we curious about a little bit of your personal experience through this, like did the pandemic change how you dated?

Kevin Anthony 14:16
We’re putting you in the spotlight.

Céline Remy 14:17
blast. We don’t need all the details.

Kevin Anthony 14:20
But we would like them.

Céline Remy 14:23
They welcome you know, this show takes it all. Give it to us.

Jessica Pels 14:29
I’m blushing. I don’t know if you can see it. I was single when COVID started and you know, quarantined alone was sort of lonely sometimes. But it was you know, it’s nice to have a full run. I work with a lot of people and have a lot of friends who have young children and I felt their pain and was sort of grateful to have some quiet time.

Jessica Pels 14:54
And then in the summer, there was like one week in New York City when it was warm, and it was beautiful and people were going outside to eat and drink because that felt safe case numbers were down. And I decided to try my hand at dating. And that week I met my boyfriend. And yeah, we’ve been together, together ever since. And it’s been kind of great to date during COVID.

Jessica Pels 15:22
Because there are so few distractions. And we’ve talked about how it’s a, it’s a really nice way to build a foundation, because, you know, our partnership is very strong. Because we spend so much time together and, you know, have been through a lot.

Céline Remy 15:39
So did your dating strategy change for you? Like, like, basically you becoming our survey like speaking, right? Take it,

Kevin Anthony 15:50
we’re not gonna focus too much on you. So don’t worry, it’s not going to be the whole rest of the interview, just a couple of questions. Get a warm-up to the audience.

Jessica Pels 16:01
Dating strategy. I don’t know that I really had one, which is maybe funny for someone in my position. But I didn’t necessarily have a strategy or think about one I just, you know, wanted to find someone who was really interesting to me, and I like meeting people and having conversations.

Jessica Pels 16:24
And there is kind of no experience that I think it is bad, so long as it was interesting. And so long as I learned something about someone that I didn’t know before or something about myself that I didn’t know before. So I don’t know that I had a strategy, really.

Kevin Anthony 16:40
And that’s perfectly fine. It sounds to me that you know, kind of what happened for you is very similar to what we’re talking about, which is that once we’re forced to slow down, because it’s really easy when you’re single, and you have a big job, you know, and you live in New York City, and life is this frantic pace over there. And it’s really easy to just get caught up in that.

Kevin Anthony 17:00
And before you know it, like 10 years go by and you’re like I haven’t really dated much or even had a strategy. Right? So So it seems what happened is when things forced you to slow down and you started to reconnect with Hey, what’s important is like, Hey, I would like to have a partner, you know?

Jessica Pels 17:13
Yeah, so that’s exactly right. You know, busy jobs in New York City busy, social lives with my friends, and I joke about how we have to, we have to plan our social gatherings two months in advance, we all have so much going on. And you’re right, that forced slow down, I think was really beneficial for me.

Céline Remy 17:34
I think it was beneficial for many people, you know, I mean, obviously, we were already together and married. So I didn’t. That’s why our situation was intimidating but if it for us just in readjusting in things that like what matters really, like it’s really that part. It’s about like, what is it that truly matters, and then that you don’t need things from the outside to make you happy.

Céline Remy 17:59
And I’ve seen that with many couples, a lot of couples’ strategy was to go outside and go on dates and go to do this and that or need these external things to kind of feel like it’s keeping their relationship together. But then in having to be forced to be more into one location and lockdowns and things like this, people had to start to figure out how to be more creative again, together. And I think that creativity,

Kevin Anthony 18:25
yeah, absolutely. And we’ll be talking a little bit more about how they were getting creative.

Céline Remy 18:30
And some data here. So before we talk about that, and let’s make a quick break for our sponsor ad, which is brought to you by Kevin and me. So this is something for all the couples out there who are in a committed relationship, but stuck in a rut and going through the daily motions instead of connecting the way they used to, if they’re tired, if you are tired of getting stale, mechanical, sex and lack spontaneity and fun and you want to live a life that is not average, then Kevin and I would like to invite you to join our highly sexed power couple Platinum program.

Céline Remy 19:05
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Kevin Anthony 19:24
Okay, so I can I want to go next, I’m going to skip this one and go and go to the next one here. Because we’ve been talking about it quite a bit already, which is one of the stats was that 44% of the people that responded said that the commitment was more important to them now than it was before.

Kevin Anthony 19:46
And so I just kind of wanted to talk a little bit about that whole piece because what we were seeing a lot during COVID as far as media reporting, were things like domestic violence is up,  child abuse is up, drug use is up, suicide is up, right? So we’re getting all this negative reporting about all these things that really are bad.

Kevin Anthony 20:08
But what you found in the survey was that people started literally becoming more committed to each other, whether they were already in a long-term relationship or just dating. I mean, 44% that’s a pretty big, pretty big number.

Jessica Pels 20:23
Yeah, it’s a massive number. And it’s, um, you know, we saw, however, we asked that question, is commitment what you’re looking for next? Do you care more about commitment now than you did before? You know, we got if not a majority of responded saying yes, very close to that. And it’s, I think it again, it part of it is that it comes back to what we talked about in regards to being really honest about what you need and being okay with being emotionally needy, which for a long time, none of us have been taught that that’s okay.

Jessica Pels 21:02
Like men are told that they have to be stoic and strong. Women are told that if they’re emotionally needy, he’ll think you’re crazy and you know, play games with him. So he doesn’t think you are needy. And I think there has been a massive cultural reset on that, which is, which is really important and great. And I think, too, that, you know, there’s so much more of a focus really broadly across all parts of life, but that certainly comes home to roost on this topic, a real focus on what feels good.

Jessica Pels 21:38
And this harkens back to what we were talking about with one nightstand if you get down to it, there are a lot of people who were like, how did I feel the next day, maybe not great, especially for women, who, you know, the messaging is very much that like, casual sex is all about empowerment, and you know, magazines like mine, do encourage women to go out there and have casual sex if that’s what they want. And I am certainly not decrying do it if that’s what you want.

Jessica Pels 22:07
But I do think it’s important for us to have a conversation about does that works for you? Hey, did that work for you? And that’s, that’s something that’s been missing. And that I think will be a much bigger part of the conversation moving forward.

Kevin Anthony 22:20
Yeah. This is spectacular, because one of the things we do, as you heard in a commercial is when people decide they actually really want to be committed and have a serious relationship. We help them do it. Well. This is gonna be great for us. Thanks for doing this survey.

Céline Remy 22:38
One of the other stat that was pretty cool is that 64% are not interested in having more than one sexual partner at a time, which I was very surprised because I think going in I thought, well, people were deprived if you weren’t in a partnership, and then you were kind of single, like, Oh, my gosh, I’m so sex-deprived. I need to fuck everything that moves. Right. But actually more than half say that they’re not interested in doing that pattern anymore. Do you have something else to tell us about that?

Jessica Pels 23:10
It’s interesting, one of the services, one of the experts that we talked to highlighted the fact that COVID taught us taught the singles among us something really important, which was we can go a long time without sex and we won’t die.

Kevin Anthony 23:26
Feels like you might.

Jessica Pels 23:29
That’s for self-pleasure content. But that’s an interesting takeaway that was sort of forced upon us. But the other thing is that there’s a whole layer of concern about sex and sexual health that didn’t exist before. You know, COVID has really heightened awareness about what is transmissible between two bodies, we’ll put it that way. And so you know

Jessica Pels 23:50
More than half of our millennial and Gen Z respondents said, if they feel under the weather at all, they’ll cancel a date where in the past, they might not have done that 42% of them say that they are more likely to ask the partner about their health status before they get into bed together before they go on a date together.

Jessica Pels 24:09
Which is really impressive. My hope is that this means that condom use will go up at the same time. But there’s definitely a new layer. It’s not just Just a tip that people are concerned about anymore. It’s of course COVID.

Kevin Anthony 24:20
Yeah, this is fantastic. I mean, you know, we have to look at any negative situation and look for the bright sides, right. And in this particular case, some of the bright sides that I see are things like people actually know before they go to an event or they show up to work, if they’re not feeling well, they actually think twice about it. Right, and they’re more likely to stay home.

Kevin Anthony 24:43
All the years I worked in corporate all flu season long, there’d be at least one person, if not several people in there that were absolutely obviously sick with the flu and they were showing up to work anyway. And now people aren’t doing that. washing their hands, people are actually washing their hands. Now, how amazing is that?

Jessica Pels 25:03
I mean, it’s, it’s an interesting social contract, I think I think we’re giving each other permission to stay home if you don’t feel well. And hopefully, that keeps us all, you know, healthier.

Jessica Pels 25:14
In general, if you have fewer people who are coughing all over each other at the office, and then of course, work-life has changed drastically, and will be changed drastically by this and will be much more open to the flexibility of working from home. So, you know, hopefully, cold and flu season at least is is hits us less hard than I used to.

Kevin Anthony 25:36
Absolutely. And I love the fact that you know, sometimes I don’t give people enough credit, but I love the fact that they are seeing that aspect of it, what we just talked about the hand washing the staying home if you’re sick, and they’re also making the same associations in the dating and sex world.

Kevin Anthony 25:55
Right, that is one for that they can realize that it’s not just about the flu, that it’s general health principles that should be practiced everywhere, including your dating life.

Jessica Pels 26:05
Absolutely. I mean, the interesting thing about COVID is that it’s you know, it’s so contagious that if you are within the same three feet of another person, you might as well go all the way with them. That is part of why singles tell us they’re more interested in taking longer before they do meet someone in person asking questions about their health status before they, you know, get to the point of view been shaking hands.

Céline Remy 26:32
So there’s another part to the survey that I want to talk about, which was said the data was showing that social isolation has reset people’s priorities as we said, but where it showed something that I did not expect is that 69% of men feel more affectionate, and only 49% of women.

Jessica Pels 26:58
I think part of that is, you know, a child here is a big part of this, I think, you know, what would explain that, to me is that there are men who have not been acutely aware of the nature of childcare of how demanding childcare is for the women in their lives, and who now had, you know, immediate exposure to it all the time, and, and therefore had some extra appreciation for, for the dynamics of the household. That might also explain why women did not look the same way.

Céline Remy 27:38
Yeah, I mean, I can, I can totally see that. But I think it’s actually a good thing. Because again, we circle back to what we were talking about at the beginning about that reset, but knowing what’s important, and men are realizing that affection is important to them, maybe even more than they thought, right. And so again, this is another super positive point. But I know that you want to bring in the next question about sexual exploration because this is a good one.

Kevin Anthony 28:07
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely wanted to talk about that. And we kind of saved it towards the end, because we thought it might be pretty juicy. But one of the interesting other things that your survey found was that 46% are more engaged in sexual exploration. So somehow, I mean, we know the sex toy sales went up, right, but somehow this has made people want to explore sexuality more, I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that.

Jessica Pels 28:34
You guys brought up an interesting point earlier about, you know, stimuli from the outside world, and how that is, in many ways how a lot of couples were oriented before COVID was outward. And the COVID sort of forced them in Word. And I think, you know, there’s this, there’s this assumption that monogamy creates monotony. And that may have been the case for a number of people.

Jessica Pels 29:02
But when you’re home alone, and you only have each other, and at the same time, you are realizing how you know, you need your emotional needs met by it’s nice to have a partner who can meet you on an emotional level. And of course, we know that intimacy really does, it really is dramatically affected by emotional connection.

Jessica Pels 29:25
Those things all sort of combine and create a dynamic in which committed partners are, you know, what our survey respondents told us is that during COVID, they were interested in satisfying each other more than they had been before. You know, personally, because that’s, that’s all there is to do, but also because, you know, sex, good healthy sex life is an indicator of a good healthy relationship.

Jessica Pels 29:53
And that’s, you know, science tells that tells us that again and again and again and so, in a way that’s the way To take care of each other to absolutely, I

Kevin Anthony 30:03
could not agree more. I mean, it really is true, right? Because intimacy and sexuality is a huge part of any healthy, successful, thriving relationship.

Céline Remy 30:16
So what would be the takeaways really, that you got from the survey? Or that you not just you in particular, but the teams? What are some of the things that we can take away from this big survey that you guys did?

Jessica Pels 30:33
I think, you know, we’re talking about sort of broad generalities here that the couples are happier than singles want to be committed, but I think we really will see and accept a more individual pursuit of happiness than we have necessarily seen before. And I do think that that will be more emotionally driven than it has been in the past.

Jessica Pels 30:56
And what I mean by that individual pursuit is, is what I mentioned earlier in regards to like, you know, what life is finite. I want x, y, z things. And a lot of people told us that what those things are, you know, a committed relationship or sexual experimentation.

Jessica Pels 31:15
And I think, you know, due to the fact that we all lived through what we lived through, and that we were forced to take a time out from the lives that we had built for ourselves, people will be much, much less quiet and timid about pursuing what it is that makes them happy, and again, have a deeper and more nuanced perspective on what that happiness might look like.

Céline Remy 31:43
This is a really beautiful future

Kevin Anthony 31:45
fantastic. Absolutely. So yeah, one of the big takeaways is that it’s, it’s, it’s reconnected people with going out and seeking what makes them happy. You know, as Joseph Campbell said, follow your bliss.

Céline Remy 31:59
Absolutely. Just, this has been a fascinating conversation. We have one last question. It’s a very last juicy question that we have for all of our guests. Tell us what is your best sexual talent?

Jessica Pels 32:11
Oh, my God. Wow. What a question. How can I answer this question at my parents? Oh, can I email it to you later? That will be my answer.

Kevin Anthony 32:34
all the times we’ve asked that question. We’ve never had anybody not give us an answer. But we understand you’re here in an official capacity for your job, and you’re in your parent’s home. So we get it emailed to us later. Forget to email it to us.

Céline Remy 32:56
And all of our guests now and all of our listeners are like, we want to know this answer.

Kevin Anthony 33:04
Well, that was a fascinating conversation. We could literally talk for another hour, there were so many more juicy details in there. I highly recommend that if you’re curious about what his sex gonna look like in the future. Whether you’re single or you’re even in a committed relationship go, the link will be in the notes, go read the whole thing because it really was worth taking the time to read.

Kevin Anthony 33:25
And I would like to thank you and Cosmo and Esquire and Kinsey and everybody that collaborated on this for bringing some positive news. Boy, have we needed it. Alright, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Jessica Pels 33:42
Thanks for having me.

Kevin Anthony 33:44
All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And we will see you next week. We hope you like this episode of the love lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 34:02
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault.

Kevin Anthony 34:17
Thanks for listening.

Céline Remy 34:18
And remember, you’re amazing