How To Be Effective At Online Dating And Flirting

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the love lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Celine Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:27
Alright, welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 115. And it’s titled How to be effective at online dating and flirting. Okay, so this is something actually that we’ve needed to do for quite a while. And the reason is, neither you nor I have actually any experience with online dating.

Kevin Anthony 0:48
But we get a lot of people asking us questions about it. In fact, we did do an entire episode on how to write a proper online dating profile from our own perspective. But now, we have an actual online dating expert on the show, who’s going to give you all the secrets Well, at least some of the secrets

Céline Remy 1:08
as many as a we can in a half hours. That’s right. So we’re very excited today to have Jared on the show. But before we brought right to bring him in, and let’s give a big shout out to our sponsors’ power and mastery.

Céline Remy 1:23
So if you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed, then check out power and mastery at power in mastery.com. It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men. Whether you want to have harder erections and last longer in the bedroom or increase your sexual skills, you’ll find something for you at power and mastery.com.

Céline Remy 1:45
Today, we have Jared “Psych” Laurence, and he is a dating mentor with 15 years of experience. He’s been featured on CBS, MTV, ABC, oxygen, and Yahoo, who have added all of this in one breath. But here’s the most impressive part is prevented 17 suicides and is responsible for over 50 marriages to date. Pretty impressive. That’s pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah. So welcome, Jared.

Jared Laurence 2:13
Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Céline Remy 2:16
So we have so many questions today.

Kevin Anthony 2:21
Yeah, so and we should preface to that, you know, Jared is focusing mainly on helping men in the online dating world. However, we reached out to female friends of ours. And we said, hey, what kind of questions would you want to ask somebody who’s an online dating specialist, like somebody who is a real pro at it?

Kevin Anthony 2:44
And they had some really interesting questions because basically, they’re seeing behavior from men in the online dating space that they don’t necessarily understand.

Kevin Anthony 2:53
So the questions that we’re going to be asking throughout this interview are a mix of like, advice for guys for how to be better, you know, in the online dating space, but also, if you’re a woman, don’t tune out. Because you might get, you might get answers to some of those questions.

Kevin Anthony 3:09
When you experience things in online dating, you’re like, why did he do that? Or why is it like that? Right. So I think this episode is going to have something for everybody.

Céline Remy 3:19
So let’s start with our first question, which is who should reach out first, we hearing from women that they expect the man to do the first move? Is it still the best option? Or is it outdated? What’s your recommendation? Jared?

Jared Laurence 3:32
Yeah, I think Bumble really had it wrong. I think the guy should be doing the first one outreach, even when girls do start to message first and a, you know, go a Bumble. It’s always just a simple like, hey, like something nothing. And then they’re waiting for the guy to respond back to them with something clever, something unique.

Jared Laurence 3:50
So actually, the split test on this using Bumble, where I looked at all the women who have messaged me, Hey, hi, hello, how are you? And I just mirrored what they were doing. So they said, Hey, I wrote back, hey, they said, How are you? I said I’m good. How are you? And they would say, I’m good. I would go good to know, I would just kind of mirror what doing we’re doing allowing them to take the lead and they hated it within two messages, they would immediately just stop responding.

Jared Laurence 4:16
They wouldn’t take the lead anymore. They didn’t want to actually come up with anything new. It was very, very clear that every almost unanimous I would say, I mean, there were a couple of outliers, but almost like 99% of women would basically do a very, very little and then completely expect me to take the reins and lead this conversation.

Jared Laurence 4:37
And if I didn’t, they were like, oh, why don’t want to talk to him anymore. So I played around with that and it’s overwhelmingly the guy should lead the conversation in the beginning.

Céline Remy 4:46
Thank you so much for saying that. Jared. So far all of you are listening. I was like, actually I cheered and had my arms up thinking like this is amazing great advice. Because I agree as a woman, I can take the lead on Of course, and I’m independent, and I have a mind of my own.

Céline Remy 5:03
But here’s the thing, I do really like it when a guy does the first step. And so the thing that’s really awesome is in what he said, when even if a woman kind of opened, like, shows the door, but it’s still the guy who needs to open the door.

Jared Laurence 5:17
I mean, it goes it honestly, I’ve done this testing where it goes beyond the first step, it goes with every step that leads the interaction forward in some way. For example, the first kiss, I played around with it, where I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna keep going to the girl, I’m not gonna make the first kiss, I’m gonna wait for her to make the move, never ends well, it’s just always, like, she’ll either get frustrated, or she’ll just feel like I’m not into her.

Jared Laurence 5:40
And then you’ll see there’s a very clear turnoff where she’s not interested anymore, right? And this goes for any of asking on a date. If I’m just waiting for her, it asked me on a date, and I’m just being flirty and playful back, but it’s not leading anywhere. About 5050, half will just lose interest. The other half will eventually say something like, so did you want my number? Did you want to?

Jared Laurence 6:02
What do you want to do here? Right, they’re like, do something, do something. So goes for getting number, any of it, the guy should be taking the lead.

Kevin Anthony 6:09
So I think this is a really important point to emphasize, for men who are listening to this, which is that in our modern society, we’re basically being told Now that everything’s equals 50-50, right. And those sort of old school, chivalrous ways are dead and buried. And that, you know, none of this matters anymore.

Kevin Anthony 6:30
And what you’re telling us is through your own experimentation is, it does matter, because the women still are waiting for you to take the lead. So men, if you’re listening out there, and you’re not getting the responses that you expect to be getting, maybe it’s because you’re not taking the lead.

Jared Laurence 6:46
Absolutely.

Céline Remy 6:47
So now, I want to bring it to another question where, and it was kind of what our friends asked were like, Why do you think so many guys don’t actually read the actual profile? So we saw a behavior that a lot of women will take. He’s like, yes, but I’m just gonna preface it, you know, they put their photos and they write the whole thing.

Céline Remy 7:08
This is what I want, you know, they took the time. And then they just get a message, like you’re hot or whatever. So I’m like, why they wanted to know all the women were like, tell us, why don’t they read our profile?

Jared Laurence 7:20
because less comes before love. When a guy’s on a dating app. He’s lonely, he’s horny. He wants to like, you know. And there are guys who want relationships granted like they want they’re looking to get with a girlfriend settle down, almost, you know, almost like the vast majority guys like coach say, the end. And the end goal of all this learning these skills that I’m teaching them is they want a girlfriend, they want to get married, they want to find the one.

Jared Laurence 7:42
So we’re not that far off men, you know, men and women there. But in the beginning, yes, definitely sex triggers come before relationship triggers, which is something else I’ve taught women as well is you just have to understand is how guys think it’s, it’s not going to change, I don’t care how PC the world gets.

Jared Laurence 7:59
This is an evolutionary biological thing when guys are on these profiles, they’re just looking for the girl that’s pretty, and that in the nicest way, they’re looking for a pretty girl, and they’re swiping on that they’re not taking time to read the bio, if they are reading the bio, it’s usually for information on what to message them about, and want to talk with them, but they’re not making really any decisions based on a bio.

Jared Laurence 8:19
It’s so bad actually, for men, in fact, that there was a study done, I think back in 2012, I forget who did it, where they had women going on these dates with guys. And they were all and it was the same woman who was very, you know, you know, objectively attractive woman, right? She would say worse and worse things on her date with the goal of can I make this guy not want to take me on a second date and want to hook up with me?

Jared Laurence 8:45
And it got to the point where she’s opening and bidding she has a dislike STD currently right now, and the guys are like, Oh, that’s unfortunate. Well, she’ll, if you’re not doing anything, you know, you know, next weekend like they did not care so, unfortunately, and you know that the last phase like you people just have to go through that and realize that’s the initially was what strong men.

Jared Laurence 9:06
What that said, though, through that phase, I believe when we can show relationship triggers, and then turn less into commitment and caring and love and, you know, going down that path.

Céline Remy 9:17
So I have one more question in that because I know also from other people like you There’s a famous we’re going to be talking about pictures and photos and messages and while I was singing about pictures and lost and guys, it’s very normal for a guy to send a dick pic or a shirtless photo.

Céline Remy 9:34
And for a lot of women, it’s a massive like I don’t know this guy and he’s just now sending me this like super highly suggestive photo like it’s kind of weird and a lot of women are turned off. So I want to hear about your experience with dialing messages and photos. And I also want you to speak about like, hey, dick pic. Yes, no. No,

Jared Laurence 9:59
no

Jared Laurence 10:01
So here’s the thing with the whole dick pics and shirtless selfies and all that kind of stuff. Okay, so if you’re listening to it awful don’t do that I haven’t gotten so far if a girl requests it I normally don’t even want to send it because it takes away the mystery of it it takes away the like sexual tension. So even if a girl wanted it like I still don’t want to do that right?

Jared Laurence 10:20
And what I’m realizing there is so then I asked myself why are guys doing this? Because almost unanimously evergreen talk to you is like, that’s this guy. I’ve got one girl who likes stick bags that I’ve done. I’ve interviewed and talked to you, but for the most part, women like hated they’re like, Oh, no, I’m getting this.

Jared Laurence 10:34
The shirtless selfies it’s not as bad but it’s just seen as douchey it’s seen as like, an eye roll right? Well, the dick pic is more like cringe like Oh my God. And I believe the reason why guys do this is because again, emotional state. So there’s a few things going on one, they’re in a heightened horny, you know, state, lustful emotional state. So right now that Saturn is going they’re not thinking like, clearly, they’re not thinking in terms of how do I court this girl? How do I, you know, make the best impression.

Jared Laurence 11:04
They’re thinking like porn culture, they want immediate gratification. And in order to do that, they don’t exactly know what to say what to do. They don’t have a process. They didn’t come to mind flirting, they don’t know what to actually go through to give the girl the adventure and you know, to make her actually enjoy the back and forth.

Jared Laurence 11:23
So due to frustration, loneliness, horniness, whatever they’re trying to do a very a Hail Mary, if you’ve got no sports analogies, like just throw the ball as far as you can, and just hope for the best. It’s kind of like a wish and a prayer that they’re doing by forcing the interaction to now go sexual. Either the dick pic with the shirtless selfie and they’re just kind of praying that the girl is receptive to it, even though I really do think they understand. It’s a huge, huge, huge, long shot and it’s not like they’re going to happen.

Jared Laurence 11:52
But again, in their mind, it’s just laziness. numbers game, maybe if they send it to 50 girls, one will be into it. They’re just kind of like playing the field versus what’s the best thing to do with this girl?

Céline Remy 12:03
Hmm, awesome. Great answer. Thank you, Jared.

Kevin Anthony 12:07
I really hope people are tuning in to this episode because this is gold. Already what Jared has given you if you’re a guy is like you’ve already connected your game. Mm-hmm. Just with those couple of tips.

Céline Remy 12:24
So speaking of taxing, when we were talking earlier, you were telling us about how you were dialing your messages and photos and so that things were changing depending on what you were putting online. So we would love to hear more about your findings in terms of what worked and what didn’t work of course.

Jared Laurence 12:44
Okay, sure. I mean, if we’re looking at online dating specifically because I help guys when it’s either cold approach meeting a stranger they don’t know building up a social circle lifestyle and meeting women through that which is my preferred I believe have a lifestyle and a social circle that draws women to you.

Jared Laurence 12:59
And then the third one right now especially is online, which everybody’s flocking to, and when I broke down online, I like to do things in like steps. So I realized the most important thing that you know, nothing else matters about this one is the pictures fun the pictures then the second most important thing was the bio because again, it makes for matches I can’t do anything.

Jared Laurence 13:19
Once I got my once I’ve maxed out the matches a third step, which is what messages to be sending back and forth how like what kind of messages do I throw that leads into a date, right? And when I broke it down to these three things, I just like took weeks maybe even a month sometimes on figuring out just dialing that down and playing around with different techniques.

Jared Laurence 13:42
And what I found was ridiculous I thought I was doing like I was already coaching and doing this stuff before Corona and I was probably getting maybe like 13 matches a week and you know probably could get like one you know one day a week with a girl online.

Jared Laurence 13:56
Which I thought was like that’s fine that’s what it’s here for. When I really dived into it 13 became 60 matches and then once a week became I showed my guys I got nine dates and five days. Just from when I started dialing the messages so it was you can have unreal success and you’re all doing in your underwear in your home like you’re just being comfortable so it’s really cool you know it’s really easy.

Jared Laurence 14:19
When it comes to the pictures we can start there for guys so with men so the women listen to this men just want to see pretty hot gorgeous use whatever adjective you want. That’s really what’s gonna trigger the guy right? So showing those shots where you know, it’s less before relationship where the guys like oh my god, she’s gorgeous.

Jared Laurence 14:40
I want to swipe right men are stupid simple. With women, it’s a little bit more complicated than it goes into the concept that a picture’s worth 1000 words. So I have to tell a story of my life and who I am based on sometimes at most six pictures I will say quality beats quantity, I’d rather three really, really good pictures, then six.

Jared Laurence 15:05
Okay, pictures, I’d actually rather three amazing pictures, then three amazing pictures and then three mediocre pictures, right because it’s just taking away points. If you have bad pictures at the hurt, it goes against you, it’s better to use no picture than a bad picture. Bad pictures can be big group shots, which can tell who you are wearing the sunglasses, the shirtless selfies or the bad pics, bad photography, in general, bad lighting.

Jared Laurence 15:33
You know, just grainy, grainy photo could be you’re making weird face you’re wearing like sloppy clothes, there are so many things are going to a bad photo, I

Céline Remy 15:41
would add you’re with two other women on that photo.

Jared Laurence 15:45
So here’s another here’s a crazy thing I realized early on and it even expanded. I tested it did like years and years ago, one of the best things you can do to attract a girl in person is show or pre-selection. And this isn’t a douchey thing that comes up pre-selection is where she sees other girls want you. And this is something that was discovered in the 20s by a psychologist named Robert Thorndyke.

Jared Laurence 16:06
And what he did was he took a guy’s photo and he said how attractive is this man? And all the girls were like, She’s like sex, let’s say, right? I just got one at a time. They showed another group of girls, how attractive is this man. But in the photo, there’s a girl just looking at him smiling. And that guy became an eight. Right?

Jared Laurence 16:23
So when women see other women want a guy, they are again evolutionarily wired to desire that man more. However, that doesn’t mean manufacturing. If they see the guy chasing after every woman in sight, it makes him less attractive. So women want you more attractive you want all these different women less attractive, and you got to like know the difference there.

Jared Laurence 16:44
So pre-selection, I’ve used it with the social circle going out bars and clubs, whatever. Two amazing effects, online dating awful women with online dating when they see your pictures of other women in it awful. Then I thought well, okay, social proof. That’s another psychological you know, the phenomenon we’ve never known since the 50s. When we did elevator pranks and people, there’s a whole thing with social proof that people did. I like to couch in the 50s.

Jared Laurence 17:11
They didn’t like the messed up experiments and were hysterical. And what happened today? Yeah, something like that. But it was really funny. Like, they would like to mess with people based on social proof. And I thought, okay, maybe we can do that with online dating. Nope. The more and more I’m looking at it. I’m playing around with one friend now with us laughing to get an emotional response. But even that I’m finding social proof is not that great.

Jared Laurence 17:35
So now the question is, what is great, what do we want to telegraph? What do we want to show our six photos? Number one sex appeal just like women should probably have it for all six, or maybe like four and then two showing like you know some feminine you know, whatever something about her that’s unique or, or different, I would say you know, for women, but for guys, number one is sex appeal.

Jared Laurence 17:57
To do that you want it from the chest up, and you want to be faced with the camera, you want a really good quality photo. You want to be smiling in the photo as well. If you don’t have the best smile, you can edit that on in my main photo. what’s crazy is I have like a normal face like I’m just doing like a normal looking at the camera face. And I took it and I hired an editor to add a smile to that photo.

Jared Laurence 18:22
And it’s like the best I’ve ever done in my life that he was able to put on this thing and the smile beats the serious look again split tested this. So chest up somewhat dark background dark features. And that’s your number one we’re gonna be your sexy photo.

Jared Laurence 18:38
You also want something that shows your own personality whether it’s us speaking on stage I have one where I’m doing stand up comedy like a hobby something fun that’s you maybe if it was you guys doing a podcast like with a big Mike’s like what is he doing what’s going on there? That would be another good one. You so that’s also your one display of excellence.

Jared Laurence 18:57
So if you play the guitar show with you playing the guitar if you do rock climbing show you do rock climbing whatever you’re really good at a display and it’s not bragging you’re selling yourself another one that you can do is the art I call it the arm motion which is you with your puppy or if you have a puppy.

Jared Laurence 19:14
You with your family or you with the bait somebody baby or whatever right and you’re just kind of going through all these different emotions from sexy to adventurous maybe like you’re traveling if there’s a picture of you at the Eiffel Tower or if there’s one of you skydiving something adventurous exciting outdoors he also another good one is if you’re doing like just general nice ones beaches sell for some reason like beaches are viewed you with a beach in the background.

Jared Laurence 19:44
Those pictures like usually always do better than ones without the beach so I got one when I saw that when I’m outdoors there’s a beach and I’m writing on this like an electric unicycle. It’s way cooler than that sound. I’m not doing justice. It’s like a solo wheel. It’s like a, you stand on it, you don’t stand on it as a one wheel thing. And there’s the beach in the background and women are, you know, liking on this photo.

Jared Laurence 20:08
So get, you know, get different images that tell a different story about you to evoke different emotions, when the girl is going through your profile, and make sure the photos are really good. They shouldn’t all look like professional photos. Because then a girl’s like, Okay, he’s just like modeling or something. But it should be like a good high-quality photo.

Céline Remy 20:29
That was amazing. Wow. People like listening to that, again, take good notes, because that was again, gold. Like, thank you so much for sharing that so helpful. Yes, I’m

Jared Laurence 20:40
actually having an online boot camp next month, that’s just a tip of the iceberg. I’m gonna be spending a weekend diving into how all this works, and helping guys completely transform their online, their online game and online profiles.

Kevin Anthony 20:51
That’s awesome. We’ll definitely come back to that at the end of the show. So you can really give a pitch to people for that, because so far what you’ve shared has been amazing. But I want to go back to one point that you made because originally we started talking about this. And you know, you were saying, Well, you know, we asked the question,

Kevin Anthony 21:08
Why don’t guys read the profile? And you know, the answer was kind of like, well, it’s really just about the sex appeal. But the point that I wanted to make as you said when talking about the photos, that the bio still has importance because the bio is having matches show up.

Jared Laurence 21:24
So so all women should have a bio, not just because I would say always have about not because it gets you more matches, I truly, I think we’ve got nothing in our bio, and she’ll get matches. And really, I’ve seen really beautiful girls get away with that. And they just know they’re really hot. So they don’t put like a bio in there. But it’s doing them a disservice.

Jared Laurence 21:43
Because now they’re getting more generic boring conversation because what the bio does for girls, it gives guys some fuel some things to work on, where you can be witty, he can take an interest in you he could you know, stinking do things other than sup, you know, like, how’s your weekend? It’s more, there’s more to it than that. Mm-hmm.

Céline Remy 22:03
That’s awesome. I really love this. One of the things that we were hearing, we have beautiful friends. And they got one of them did, she said like, 500 requests in a weekend or something? It was

Kevin Anthony 22:16
a former model. And she’s beautiful,

Céline Remy 22:19
though. Okay, so

Kevin Anthony 22:21
yeah, hundreds of matches. And her question was, like, what do you do with that? She’s like, she couldn’t even possibly go through all of them. Mm-hmm.

Jared Laurence 22:29
Yeah. So this is a quality problem. I mean, I’m over here being proud of my 60. She’s getting 500 here. But that’s I mean, it’s a quality problem, right. So here’s what I mean. Obviously, I don’t go through this as a woman, but I also have friends who are models or, you know, they’re the, what do you call them they wave the lights around the nightclub, they hit the bottle girl bottle service girls, you know, who get similar kinds of results, as well your friend talking about?

Jared Laurence 22:57
And what I’ve learned from them, is they’re just doing a quick scrolling to go pass anything other than Hey, what’s up? Hey, hi would like all the borings, if it’s one word if it’s a quick little everything else, she’s just going quickly through it and just picking the messages that look somewhat different at face value. That’s why any of my messages need to be attention grabber messages, they need to be something that does cut through that noise.

Jared Laurence 23:23
And really, you know, shock them in some way. So like, one of, you know, one of my friends, I’ll give credit where credit’s due you guys, you know, endless options, whatever. And I got a great starter from them. I feel like cut the noise, which is an autocorrect like, so his starter that I’ve played around with is oh my god are yours. Why are you so cute? yet so fat? And then you go oh my god, I meant far. Dammit, far, like an autocorrect message because it’s like fat, what the hell and then you go into it, right?

Jared Laurence 23:55
The idea of that is to break through all the Hey, what’s up? Hi, hi. Hi. And there’s a lot of different like, you know, messages. I don’t personally, I don’t like doing a standard message. Because even that one I do believe at some level women will see through it. Because it’s like how because you’re always gonna get how many goes did you send that to write?

Jared Laurence 24:15
Even that one not all the time but I’ve had it even that one. So when I’m doing a message, I want something that breaks away to something unique. So a little bit different based on her bio and if you have a bio-based on her pictures, where she knows that’s for her, and there’s also some creativity to it.

Jared Laurence 24:31
There’s also some you know fun to it and I always want to make sure it’s a playful like silly message not just a normal like oh wow, I so you’re in Paris it looks really pretty. How did you like it? Like I don’t want to go into a boring talk. I want to make sure right off the bat I’m getting spiked with a funny silly emotion.

Céline Remy 24:52
Oh, I can’t wait to dive in more. This was awesome. So far, so good. And as a woman, I can only agree you know when you say even though typo. I was Like, I don’t know, you know, calling a woman fat, even by mistake, it’s going to be hard for her to forget, especially as a first impression. So be careful with that one, in my opinion.

Jared Laurence 25:09
I’ve had it back. Again, that’s not mine. That’s another couple of options I just used as a template example because I don’t really have templates. I don’t have alike, here, use this starter, whatever I like to like show my guys are techniques of how to look at her profile, and then generate one of your own versus something that everybody’s going to use it then every girl’s heard it anyways.

Kevin Anthony 25:29
Yeah, well, I think what the real advice here is don’t send generic messages, you know, copy and paste or just Hey, do something original. That speaks to her specifically, I mean that that’s not exactly rocket science. But I get that most guys don’t do that. So I’m not saying it’s not good advice. It’s actually spectacular advice.

Jared Laurence 25:52
And it’s light-hearted and playful. We want to get it we want to I want to look, I want her to one see it through all those 500 messages. I want to be like, Oh, what’s this one. And when she reads it, I want to get a smile, get a burst of good emotion, just my message. And then we go from there.

Céline Remy 26:05
Mm-hmm. Fantastic. So we got a few more questions, of course, and I’m really excited about that. But before that, we want to do a quick break to invite our listeners into our programs. So if you are a committed couple who is stuck in a rut and just going through the daily motions, instead of connected, connecting the way you used to, and you’re just tired of still mechanical sex, I’d like spontaneity and fun and you don’t want to live a life of average.

Céline Remy 26:31
Then Kevin and I would like to invite you to join us in our highly sex power couple Platinum program. And so if you give us 90 days, we will help you bring the passion back between the sheets and be synched up sexually so that you can thrive with more purpose and passion in life. So you can find more about our program at Celine remy.com forward slash passion. So that’s if you are in a relationship now, with Jerry’s advice. He’s going to help you get a relationship. So

Kevin Anthony 26:58
get it, come see us, we’ll help you with it.

Céline Remy 27:07
So I think I wanted to ask like, again, like Do you have any recommendations over like, quality over quantity? Because I think there is a difference like the women we are pickier. And we kind of understand that concept. And we might be more choosy. While a lot of guys like you said, well, they thinking if I do even this cheesy thing to 50 women and one of the answers I score, but we don’t really see it that way. So I was just curious about your opinion on quality versus quantity.

Jared Laurence 27:37
I think there has to be a balance, I think I think both are actually important. And I think that what you’re saying I think women go too far for quality over quantity to their own detriment, actually. And I think men go to quantity over quality to their detriment. So it’s like totally different reasons. So when a woman’s match with a guy and talk with them, she’ll go quality require one girl I was talking to who’s like, I’m all in on this guy, I don’t want to be talking to you know, think about any other guys.

Jared Laurence 28:01
I’m not seeing what any other options are there because I’m focusing on him. I’m like, oh, is your boyfriend? No, no, I haven’t had to talk with him. I don’t know if he sees me the same way or not? Well, why don’t you ask if you’re gonna, like lock everything down and not talk to the guys? Maybe you want to talk to him about it. But he might say he might not feel the same way I do. So I’m not gonna do that.

Jared Laurence 28:18
So like, okay, right. So I feel like, with women, they get very much, you know, fast, fast-tracked to a relationship, even when it’s not there. And they’ll try to make it up in their minds almost sometimes where it’s like, that’s the guy, that’s my boyfriend. That’s what I got to make it down. And it’s like, Look, not every guy is meant to be a boyfriend or a husband or whatever.

Jared Laurence 28:43
You know, every guy’s meant to come in your life is different things, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s friendship, benefits, whether it’s a long term relationship, whether it’s a husband, whatever it is, it’s like judge each guy separately and see what your options are, have a little bit more quantity so you can get a feel for obviously if you start a monogamous relationship and making your boyfriend then you know, that’s that, but that’s the time to go.

Jared Laurence 29:06
I’m all in versus not seeing what else is out there. You’re not doing anyone service and chances are, he’s not doing the same for you. So that’s my advice to the women with guys. They’re doing quantity over quality and talking with every girl that they can. But by doing that, they’re becoming lazy. They’re not actually thinking like, Alright, what do I do to get with this girl? Oh, okay. I acted stupid and work. Screw it. All right, let me go to the next one.

Jared Laurence 29:31
Next one, next one, next one, but you’re just burning these chances over and over and over again and you’re not actually getting any better. And then when something does work, it’s probably something that’s not really what you want. And then people guys are complaining that I get the quality time girls, but they’re not putting in the work. Most guys who procrastinate, don’t take action. They’re lazy about it. They think oh, it’ll just you know, it’ll just click and I’ll be right.

Jared Laurence 29:56
No, there’s a skill to it. I mean, that’s the whole reason I have a job. It’s because I’m just showing these guys, look, here’s how to make it better follow this roadmap, follow these processes, and then when a guy actually takes the time to go, you know what, this is a skill. Let me practices let me actually do this the right way and build it up versus, you know, you know, getting lucky, trying you know, hoping they can get whatever they can get.

Jared Laurence 30:20
The act of learning the skills bit by bit by bit the right way. And be like, wow, okay, this is amazing. Like, I’m getting more and more results. And it’s something that we can track and months. That’s beautiful, it took me like three years to get where I was, like, I’m really happy with my dating life.

Jared Laurence 30:35
And what I’m able to do, and I started with like nothing I started, like completely awful with women that had no friends, just awful. And it took about three years of constantly practicing going out, trying everything. The facts, I’m able to get my guy’s results were either in relationships, or dates every week, or being just able to have girls that are consistently talking to dating girls outside of their league for the first time in their life within a matter of months is ridiculous to me even because I didn’t even have that when I was first learning this.

Céline Remy 31:10
I mean, this is why you hire people who’ve done where what you want to do because we help people shortcut this whole thing. Because all of us, it took us years to do what we know how to do now. So yeah, absolutely, I think it’s it, it actually speaks a lot that you took yourself from where you were to where you are, and then that you found a way to create a, like, something to follow for men to go like faster and have better results for sure.

Céline Remy 31:37
Yeah. So I want to take it a little bit offline now. Because a lot of people like you gave so much value here. And I know you’ve got so much more and people can continue working with you. But now you got the match. Okay. And it’s one thing, how do you go about approaching the woman once you’ve made the match, and especially once you like, like maybe that first date?

Jared Laurence 32:01
So I would I tell guys, we got about five vibes that my guys go through there, you know. So if you go read my book, there’s 15 steps and an attraction ladder, which is just like step by step by step. It’s like, it’s like, how to attract a woman and lean things forward for dummies, essentially, it’s just step-by-step 15 steps there’s super easy broken down. As the more advanced, you realize you don’t do those 15 steps like is just five either you keep cycling back and forth with comfort, playful, flirting, connecting, sexual. And we go through these vibes.

Jared Laurence 32:33
And the idea is we start with one, when we’re getting it back, we can jump to the other. If we test for one or we don’t get it back, we go down one. Here’s what I mean by that. If the comfort vibe, I’m just making I’m just saying stuff to make the girl feel comfortable around me friendly, platonic at ease, you know because you can’t have attraction without comfort.

Jared Laurence 32:53
And if a girl sees the most gorgeous guy in the world, you know who’s just everything she ever wanted, but he’s got blood draining down a shirt and a knife in his hand and he’s looking at her she’s not feeling attraction to getting the hell out of it. Right? So you need comfort. Now, once I’m saying something, doing things get real comfortable. What I’m noticing is she’s talking with me engaging me Is she comfortable with me? And she’s not I got to keep doing comfort. If she is comfortable with me, then I can test for being playful.

Jared Laurence 33:22
If she’s being playful back then I can test her being flirtatious. If I test her being flirtatious and she’s not flirty, then I go playful. I just go back to playful. If she’s not being playful with me. Even if I’m being playful, I go back to comfort and the idea is to keep pushing, but watching her reaction to going back when necessary. But pushing it from playful comfort to playful flirting to connecting to sexual when it comes to the messaging online.

Jared Laurence 33:46
The goal is to progress it with those five vibes to flirtation, and it can be very quick. It’s not honestly like I used to think that these long back and forth messages or girls like Not really. It could really be simple within like a day within six messages, eight messages maybe like it’s like I’m starting playful the idea that we match I mean she’s already comfortable me.

Jared Laurence 34:09
She says he’s cute. I like him. I can assume comfort I start playfully. Once she’s playful back I test for flirtation if she’s flirting back with me I go for a phone number I actually know I’m sorry I go for the date I don’t like getting girls numbers I like getting dates every guy likes look at like look at a number like getting a piece of paper like oh I got a number is like a trophy means nothing girls will give you the number to get rid of you.

Kevin Anthony 34:32
And a failing we know women who have an exact fake number that they give all the time

Jared Laurence 34:37
like that. The call center whatever where they like you’ve got a fake number a real number where like I was like oh man, they get like rejection proof hotline. So, so once I go flirtatious with the girl, then I know that she’s ready to go on a date. So I see the date I suggest the date I invite her on the date. That’s a three-step process. There.

Jared Laurence 35:00
Once you agree to go on the date with me then as the afterthought I got a number of course, what’s the number I used to go just flirtatious got a number of you to know, got a date go on the date, but then I meet up with her. And it was, it was lukewarm that was because it was very small quick interaction online.

Jared Laurence 35:17
So now what I suggest to guys is once you have her number use it, but use it for the fourth vibe, which is making a connection. And I think it’s really good before the date, you should do a FaceTime or at least a call with the girl. So you can ask certain questions and you can, you know, really start asking the right kind of questions to get a genuine connection with her and show interest in her to feel that’s why you’re going to date in the first place.

Jared Laurence 35:43
Then on the date, it kind of starts back up again, you start back with comfort, because the first time seeing each other can be uncomfortable. And you go through the vibes all over again. That’s basically all you have to think about.

Kevin Anthony 35:53
Yeah, that’s a really fantastic way of looking at it. I like it. Like, you know, some people might think, Oh, it’s a little regimented. It’s a little like, you know, like, you might be thinking that Yeah, maybe maybe not, I don’t know. But what I think is really good, because you know, men, we tend to be those sort of logical step by step thinkers.

Kevin Anthony 36:12
So it’s really actually good for the way our brains work to think about it in those terms. And the other thing that I think it’s really good is, it shows guys not to just jump straight to sexual like the whole topic thing is jumping. It’s bypassing all of that jumping over to the sexual right. So I think for men to have a model to follow that makes them stop and think, yeah, oh, actually, I need to make them feel comfortable.

Kevin Anthony 36:37
You know, I need to flirt with them a little bit. I need to establish some sort of a connection before they just jump straight over into the Hey, babe, let’s do it.

Jared Laurence 36:45
Here’s a guy you know, they can’t even test for being sexual with a girl until they see the girl making effort to make a connection with them back. Once they see the girl doing things that show that she’s asking them a deep question, she’s showing interest in him and making the connection.

Jared Laurence 37:00
That’s when he’s like, Alright, just seem to be a connection. Let me now test and do things that are more sexual. It could be for going for the kiss, it could be a light hair grab, it could be putting your arm around her like it could be anything. But you’re doing this once you start seeing that there’s the girl at least is making an effort for connection.

Céline Remy 37:16
Amazing. Amazing. I want to do one last quick question. We have two questions always. But one is around the dates. Do you have a tip for the days? Is it better? Like when it’s in real life to go to his place her place neutral? Or do dinner? Do you have a preference there?

Jared Laurence 37:34
Are those 4 neutral? I wouldn’t say it? I mean, are we talking from the guy’s point of view for the girls like what’s what do we?

Kevin Anthony 37:41
How about both?

Jared Laurence 37:43
I mean, depends on what the agenda is, like, I have no problem with guys want to meet up and just hook up or whatnot. And if you’re the guy and he’s got the girl interested in that, and they’re down for a casual fun encounter, then I would suggest going back to his place because that’s how he can lead.

Jared Laurence 37:58
He can make sure that he has everything and also I think it’s I do think it’s safer for the girl too because you want a guy known where you live and like stalking you if something happens, right? So I think if it’s a hookup thing, guys place, okay, it’s not a hookup thing and you’re going like let’s see where this goes it’s actually dating properly, then you don’t want to start off at his place or the girl’s place.

Jared Laurence 38:18
You want to start off and I don’t like the dinner thing. I’ve done it. Like critics I’m lazy and there’s literally a sushi Hookah Bar, like right in my building. And I’m just like, it’s, I can just take the elevator down. And if it’s a bad day, I got a good meal, I can go back up. So I’ve personally been kind of lazy and but this is one of those Do as I say that it’s a two-moment try now.

Jared Laurence 38:39
Although for a hookup was kind of active, but whatever, that’s expensive. So so the dates don’t have to be expensive. They don’t have to be at all like what I’m doing. I’m just doing it out of sheer laziness. But the reality is the active dates are the best so you’re like you’re David Buster they’re gonna cave thing or you go miniature golf or kayaking or something where like, the whole focus isn’t on the date.

Jared Laurence 38:58
Another fun one they had I saw was like ax throwing, could be a good day anything that’s just like, Alright, let’s see what you got. Let’s do what I like when it’s a challenging element, where it’s like, you know, you against the girl with like air hockey, like something stupid.

Jared Laurence 39:12
But it’s again, that competition gets it more fun, it gets more playful and allows if there’s any kind of lonely conversation, you just focus back on the activity. So I would say do away with movie dates, do away with dinner dates, do something active, and another one. And you can see that you can honestly Google that like if you google great dates, they’re gonna show you like do the active stuff. Here’s what you can Google.

Jared Laurence 39:34
If you really want to make a good day don’t do a single date, due date with time distortion. But that means is that if I take you out for an ax throwing date, let’s say and it takes four hours long.

Jared Laurence 39:47
That is one day that took four hours long, however, and that four hours if I took you on an ax-throwing date, that was one hour and then we had a beach picnic, that was a second hour, and then we went to a bar and got drinks, that was the third hour and then we got went to an arcade plays and we’ve shot basketball that was the fourth hour.

Jared Laurence 40:04
It feels the emotional equivalency is it feels like four days, changing the Environment Matters. So I would much rather do time distortion and do different places throughout a day versus all of it in one spot because it’s going to, you’re going to get that feeling at the end those four hours that you know the person so much more, there’s going to be so much more connection now just by changing location up.

Céline Remy 40:26
Amazing. I hope our listeners are listening all the way to the end because this is spectacular. We do have the last question that we love to ask all of our guests. Jared, what is your best sexual talent?

Jared Laurence 40:38
My best sexual talent fingering I’m guessing.

Jared Laurence 40:42
I can you actually know that well thing I mean, fingering for sexual talent because that to me, that’s the best way I know to like get the girl off multiple times. I just couldn’t you know, playing around with it for so long, that I won’t even have sex with a girl until with fingering I’ve had her like, at least come once or maybe even twice, playing around with it.

Jared Laurence 41:01
But really, I just really thought of it. I thought it was a sexual activity fingering but really the best sexual talent is communication and getting the girl to be comfortable enough to actually tell me what she likes. What is she into? So you know, one girl, I was like, I was doing it. I got an open up and tell me she wants my finger lower.

Jared Laurence 41:21
And just by that by she’ll tell me like no, move your hand down a little bit. It changed the whole game change. I was like, okay, that’s her spot. She didn’t want to give me head. And I was thinking, Okay, maybe she’s bad at it, or she doesn’t like doing it or whatever. So I was able to communicate and bring it up with her. And she’s like, well, I just I feel like, I don’t know what I’m doing.

Jared Laurence 41:39
And I’m embarrassed or whatever. So I’m like, do you want me to teach you? And she was like, Yeah, that’d be awesome. And we’re not if she went to 30s she’s like, 31. So I was like, Fuck, I’ll teach you. And then all of a sudden, she loves doing it. She’s into it. I’m like, this is amazing. And I could do exactly ever do exactly what I want. So I’d say getting the girl comfortable enough to communicate is probably the best sexual talent.

Kevin Anthony 41:59
So Celine, as you say all the time communication is lubrication. Absolutely.

Céline Remy 42:05
Yeah. Jared, please tell our listeners where they can get more of you. I know you have your website, modern flirting.com. But anywhere that they can get ahold of you.

Jared Laurence 42:17
The best is to find me on Instagram and Facebook, especially. Jared psych Lawrence, you type in Instagram, you type in Facebook, my physical pop up. Jared j rd site is like short for psychology. So psi ch. And then Lauren’s everyone gets it wrong. It’s not with a W it’s l a u r e n c e and you can message me on there, you can send me an email site psi ch and modern flirting calm.

Jared Laurence 42:44
But really, social media is usually the best way and then I’m always doing pro tips actually have to do one today. My Social Media Manager reminded me so you get my pro tips you get live to me, you get all different. You can ask questions there. You can join my Facebook group. Modern flirting, dating advice have a Facebook group. It’s private. So I got to screen your first but, you know, the more the better.

Jared Laurence 43:07
And yeah, and all you know what, uh, here’s something else want to do. Let me pull this up. If you guys mentioned Celine, Celine, Remy, and us, you know, you say something a podcast. I’ll even give you my book psychology of mind flirting for free. All right, full 15 steps. I’ll send it right over to you or dating during Corona another book literally just for right now.

Jared Laurence 43:31
But how to make the best of corona. Turn lemons into lemonade. It’s really easy if you know what you’re doing. So I’ll let you guys choose. Fantastic.

Céline Remy 43:39
This is awesome. Wonderful. Jared, guys, make sure you reach out because honestly, I feel like we have so much more to cover. But there were so many little nuggets of wisdom.

Kevin Anthony 43:51
I think they were nuggets. They were kind of like boulders,

Jared Laurence 43:55
boulders, always happy to come back.

Kevin Anthony 44:00
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jared, you gave really great information. I hope people got a lot of value out of that. And I feel the same way. I don’t know how many questions we actually asked. But we have more on the list. And there just isn’t time. So there’s so much more quality information that you could get from Jared. So if you want more go look him up.

Kevin Anthony 44:19
Go find him in all his social media places and get more. All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. So we’ll see you next week. We hope you like this episode of the love lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 44:41
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault.

Kevin Anthony 44:55
Thanks for listening.

Céline Remy 44:57
And remember, you’re amazing.