How Treating Sex As A Hobby Can Improve Your Sex Life

Kevin Anthony 0:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, a safe and fun place to get real and learn about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom, and your relationships.

All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 274. And it is titled How treating sex as a hobby can improve your sex life. So the discussion we’re gonna have today is, you know, if you want to be good at anything, it doesn’t really matter what it is, you have to put time and effort into it. And having a great sex life is no different. The problem is, that most people treat sex as just something that while it’s just part of being human, we just know how to do it. And we do our little thing here. And that’s that right? And then they wonder why they do not have a rich and fulfilling sex life. So we’re really going to dive deep, we have a lot of information to cover with you today. You can probably already see on the screen if you’re watching this on YouTube that I have a guest with me again today, who will be introducing herself in just a moment.

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Okay, so as you can see on the screen, and as I’ve already mentioned, if you’re listening on audio, I have the beautiful Jacqueline with me again today. She co-hosted a show with me a few weeks ago, and I’m happy to have her back. So Jacqueline, why don’t you introduce yourself to the audience?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 2:30
Wonderful. Hi. Yes, I will say a little bit about myself again. I am Jacqueline Ava Sophia, I’m a sex and intimacy coach and a neurolinguistic programming PAC practitioner. So that means I talk to people about sex and explore how their childhood imprints are impacting their current relationships and sex life. I’ve created a unique process for individuals and couples to elevate their sexuality and increase their capacity for intimacy and heal their lives in the process. And I’m super excited because I am announcing my new quiz, which is free and it’s called the sexual potential quiz. By taking that you’ll discover one of four pathways that are uniquely tailored to you to identify what might be inhibiting your sexual satisfaction and understand how to get on the path to a seriously satisfying sex life. So the link to that will also be in the show notes. And I also am super excited to share about an upcoming free live event it’ll be on November 18, called Three Keys to elevate your sex life. You won’t want to miss it more about that at the end. So be sure to stay to the end to hear how to grab your seat. Thanks for having me.

Kevin Anthony 3:48
Thanks for being on the show again. So, you know, I sort of alluded to it in the beginning about what we’re talking about today. But, you know, the first thing that we want to sort of cover here is, you know, what do we mean by treating sex as a hobby? Like, what does that mean to people?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 4:07
Yeah, that is so key. This came to me. And, you know, it’s something that is so important in so many people’s lives. And like you said, Kevin, when you put in effort into something, then it gets better. So just like you would if you were into a sport or into gardening or cooking, if you treat something like it’s something you’re really into, you’re gonna get better at it. So that’s what we mean by treating sex as a hobby.

Kevin Anthony 4:35
Yeah. And you know, if you’ve, if you believe or if you feel that sex is important to you in your life, wouldn’t you want to be better at it? Wouldn’t you want it to be as good as it could possibly be? I know, I certainly do. And, you know, we will be talking later on in the show, because like, I know in my life personally, I have always treated sexist. In fact, that’s how I got into doing the work that I do, which is explained later. But I know that you also have used sex or treated sex as a hobby as well. And so later on in the show, we will talk about some of our own personal stories of how we treated our sex lives as a hobby and as a pastime is something that we were interested in learning and developing. So make sure you stick around for that. I’m sure you all want to hear about Jacqueline’s sex life.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 5:27
Need a peek into the secret sex life of Jacqueline and Kevin?

Kevin Anthony 5:35
Exactly. They’ve heard all about my sex life. I don’t know. Maybe they want to hear more, but after 274 episodes, I’ve talked a lot about my sex life. But they’re probably interested in hearing about yours, though.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 5:49
Okay, first time ever.

Kevin Anthony 5:53
So back to the idea of treating sex as a hobby. So we have, you know, we gave sort of a general description, but we have a few bullet points here too, of like, what that really means. And the first one is doing it frequently. I mean, like, if you let’s say, you played golf, would you consider golf a hobby of yours? If you only did it? Yeah, you know, once a month or so maybe you would. But most people would consider that like, just a thing that you did every once in a while, you wouldn’t really consider it a hobby, because like when we’re talking about a hobby, we’re talking about something you do frequently. You’re like buying new equipment for it all the time. You’re like doing it with, you know, friends, or you know, your partner, or it’s just like something that you do a lot. You know, like, if cars are your hobby, probably every weekend, you’re in the garage working on your car, right? So doing it frequently, I think, is one of the keys to treating sex as a hobby.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 6:51
Exactly. And that’s also sometimes a matter of prioritizing. So it’s important to you, you know, scheduling those date nights and the time to do it. Yeah, go ahead.

Kevin Anthony 7:03
Well, like any other hobby, right? It should be something that’s fun and enjoyable. So you know, if you’re like, oh, man, you mean, I got to do this every week? No, you don’t have to do it every week, you get to do it every week.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 7:19
Amazing. Yeah. So the second one we have on here is researching it. And you know, I’m gonna keep going on with that same sentiment of you get to research it, because it’s super fun getting into it. And kind of just like discovering what you might be into what your partner might be into, you know, things to explore because it really is an endless pursuit. There’s always more you can learn and experience.

Kevin Anthony 7:45
Yeah, and I want to keep drawing some parallels back to other things that people consider hobbies so that you start to get that this really can and is a hobby. So you know, let’s say I’m just gonna go back to the golf analogy, right? But like, if golf is your thing, how much time have you spent researching the best golf courses to play on? Or the best clubs to use? Right? Like all the modern technology and golf clubs are the best golf shoes, right? Like, you probably spent hours researching that stuff? How much time have you actually spent Be honest with yourself researching anything to do with sex. Unless, of course, you’ve had a major problem and you’re trying to find somebody to help you like, you know, erection difficulties or something like that. But, outside of like, oh, there’s a big problem to solve here. Most people don’t do any research on it at all. So, you know, like, cooking is another great one. So, you know, Céline was was I mean, she loved cooking, that was like her thing to do. And almost every day, she was jumping on the internet real quick, like, Oh, what if I made it like this? Or what if I did that? Let me see. Let me look this up. Let me find this new recipe. Let me see what ingredient would go with this thing that I have leftover in the fridge. Right? That is that’s really what we’re talking about when we’re saying research it like it’s a hobby of yours.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 9:04
Yeah, definitely. And that goes along with attending events. And there are so many different kinds of events in the sexy space. So this can really align with any of your interests. But keeping up with that analogy, if you’re into golf, you know, you’re probably going to be watching golf on TV, you’re probably going to be going to professional golf events. You know, you might go to some store that sells golf clubs and such you know, I’m not a golf expert by any means, but just going to the places making friends with people in the space, and discovering what you’re interested in what areas you want to grow in. You know what kind of gear you want. I feel like there could be a whole episode I don’t know if you’ve done one on sex gear, but all the best stuff.

Kevin Anthony 9:53
No, but we should do that actually. I’m gonna so the next episode you and I are going to do is going to be on sex gear. So sex equipment because I need to have a female perspective on that. So much of the equipment is made for you. But you know, but back to the golf analogy, I probably should have picked something that you and I know more about because I’m not a golf person either. But I just know a lot of people are like a lot of men, especially my age group are into golf. That’s kind of why I chose that if something relatable. Maybe we’ll switch that up in a moment. But yeah, I’m just back to the attending events thing. So, you know, we’ll talk more about our own personal stories later on. But I do want to sprinkle them in as we go along. And just a lot of how I got started in doing this work was that I was just really interested in sex and being better at sex. And it’s just something that always interested me. So I would read books about it, I would practice with my partners when we became aware of some of the communities around sex positivity. We started attending events there, we were going to workshops, I had no intention whatsoever, in the beginning of ever teaching this to anybody never did, I think I’d be sitting here doing this podcast and being 274 episodes. And that was never my intention, it was just something that I enjoyed. And something that I wanted to be better at. And something that I could share with my partner is well. So I highly recommend that you do those things, you don’t have to end up, you know, teaching it, you can if you want, but that idea of just, you know, doing it frequently researching it attending events. And then of course, that leads us to the next one.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 11:51
Yeah, and the next one is, of course, hiring a coach, a teacher, a mentor, about sex to really delve into, you know, the things that you’re uniquely into because kind of like I said before, it’s just endless possibility insects. So talking to someone who can really work with you on what you uniquely like. And getting creative in the process can just be so enriching, just like, you know, if you hired a private, a private coach for sports or any other hobby, when you get that one-on-one support, or even in a group setting, just the growth is massive.

Kevin Anthony 12:30
Yeah, and, you know, this is a thing that I come up against all the time when I’m talking to people about the work that I do, which is, you know, they often, you know, as far as their sex life and the relationship go hiring a coach to help them is often like the last straw. Like when things are really crashing and burning, then they go out and hire somebody. But if you look at other hobbies that they do in life, they hire coaches all the time, you want to learn to play a musical instrument, you hire a teacher to teach you how to do it, you want to stop slicing off into the weeds back to our golf analogy, you hire a golf instructor to teach you how to get your shots straight, right? It doesn’t, almost doesn’t matter what your hobby is, if you want to be good at it, at some point, you’ve hired somebody to teach you how to get good at it. And yet, when it comes to people’s sex, Life, and Relationship, they’re like, oh, no, no, I don’t need a coach. I mean, sexy, I know how to do that. But do you really, you’ve never been taught it. You know, here’s, here’s another example. In the training that we do, we focus a lot on breathing techniques, because it’s a really important part of being able to master your arousal and your how long you can last as a man and because I know how to breathe. I’m here. I’ve been living my whole life. I’ve been breathing. I was born breathing. I know how to do it. But you don’t really. So there was a popular book written called Breath. It was a New York Times best seller. If you think you know how to breathe, go read that book. If you’ve read the entire thing, you’ll go, Oh, crap, you’re right. I don’t really know how to breathe, but you think you do because you’ve taken it for granted. Because you’ve done it your whole life and sex is very much the same. You think you know how to do it, you’ve taken it for granted. But you don’t really know most likely, unless you’ve taken the time to really study and practice and get help. You most likely don’t really know how to do it.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 14:22
Yeah, exactly. And some of that goes down to their next point here, which is having a desire to get better at it. And, you know, most of us do want a more fulfilling amazing, satisfying sex life. And that desire, you know, sometimes I think that it comes down to, you know, some subconscious like, am I worth it? Or is my relationship worth it to spend the energy investment, the time investment, maybe it’s a money investment on your sex life like sometimes it’s easier to put it into a sport or gardening or something that’s out there. But really, if you think about it, your relationship bleeds out into every area of your life, for the better or for worse, so putting the energy into, getting better at sex, which is so fundamental, in those relationships.

Kevin Anthony 15:19
Yeah, I totally agree. I think there’s really, there’s really nothing that is more important in this life than our relationships with our intimate partners and our sex life, which is an integral part of that relationship. But I’m curious, Jacqueline, I’m gonna put you on the spot. Spot what? So you know, what drives your desire behind wanting to be the best you can be at sex?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 15:47
Oh, that’s a good question. You know, it’s probably the reason why I do what I do and why I’ve gotten so into teaching and coaching this stuff, too. But I’m kind of a growth junkie. And I feel like with sex, it’s just, it makes it so fun. First of all, so it’s this playground of like, for myself, how can I be more present and access my creativity, my power? And then also, like, being a better partner is such a huge piece of it, like how can I be more attuned? How can I listen more to what my partner wants? And like, actually, give them that in the form of experience. And, you know, it’s just that desire to like, get better to show up better for myself for my loved ones in the world. And I find that sex is a really fun place to do that. So I think that’s what drives me. I know it’s kind of lofty, but you know, also sex is nice.

So, you know, on like, a more selfish note. I want more pleasure.

Kevin Anthony 17:05
And there’s nothing wrong with that. So thank you for sharing that, you know, because I think it’s important for people to hear that out. Okay. Granted, we’re considered professionals in the business, and this is what we do. But you know, aside from our work, this is also a part of who we are outside of our work. So I just thought it’d be interesting for people to hear sort of what drives us, right? So for you, there’s, there’s pleasure, there’s, you know, the personal growth junkie, just always wanting to be better at everything that you do, and also wanting to be able to give more pleasure to your partner. So those are all great reasons. I mean, as I said, just a little while ago, my whole journey started for my own reasons that had nothing to do with teaching or doing the work, it was just about wanting to be good at it. Because it was something that was important to me, it was something that was very pleasurable to me. And I have to say, as a man, if you can really master your sexuality, and you can take your woman on this journey of ours long, multiple orgasmic bliss, and just crack her wide open to the point where she’s got like tears of joy, and she’s convulsing on the floor and in a puddle of like, you get the idea. If you can do that, that to me, there’s just absolutely nothing better than that. nothing more satisfying than, to be able to share that or CO facilitate that kind of pleasure, and opening up in a woman is absolutely amazing. But pretty much nobody can just naturally do that from day one without putting some time and effort into figuring out how that works.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 18:52
Exactly, yeah. And it is. So it offers such value in relationships. So mastering that, like you become really hot to a woman. And I suspect the same goes the other way around, like being a woman who’s capable of that surrender, that opening that puddle state, you know, I’ll have to ask you, Kevin, but we’re pretty attractive.

Kevin Anthony 19:19
Yeah, you know, honestly, and this, you know, it changes as we get older as men, you know, when we’re younger as men, it’s kind of like, you know, any good-looking woman who’s willing to have sex with us for like, yeah. But as we get older, we start being a lot more picky and we’re like, okay, we’re looking for certain things in the women that we choose to engage with. And that can be lots of different things, you know, emotional maturity, and you know that, but yes, one of those things is that ability to go to those depths, right? So those depths of just full surrender wide open, moving massive amounts of sexual energy like that. Yeah, honestly, if a woman isn’t capable of going there, I’m not really interested.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 20:08
Yeah, that’s the truth. And especially as we get older as people, you know, just being attractive becomes not enough. So even more reason to make this your hobby.

Kevin Anthony 20:20
Especially as our attractiveness changes as we get older. I’m just gonna put it that way, pay no attention to the receding hairline. There’s an inevitability of aging that none of us are escaping that, you know, we can do better than those who don’t do anything. You know, like, I mean, most people tell me I look considerably younger than I than I am. But there’s still there are things changing that there’s just not a damn thing I can do about.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 20:53
Exactly. Well, personally, I’m committed to having hot sex, like as a 70, 80, and 90-year-old like, yes, that’s, that’s what I’m here for.

Kevin Anthony 21:04
Yes, doing the work that I do. I have talked to plenty of people in their 60s and 70s, and even a few in their 80s, who are still having rich and fulfilling sex lives. So it’s possible. Definitely. All right, the last one on this first list, having meaningful conversations about it. So we remember this list was all about, like, how do we treat sex as a hobby, right? So you know, doing it frequently researching attending events, hiring coaches having a strong desire, but that last one is, you know, having meaningful conversations about so like, The reason that’s on the list is to think about how you treat something that’s a hobby of yours. When your friends come over, like for dinner? What are you talking about, you’re talking about the car in the garage that you’re restoring, that’s your hobby, or you’re talking about how you played golf the other day, as any of our friends know, if you came over and hung out with Selena, and I, you know, one of the topics we were talking about, at some point, inevitably, probably most of the evening was sex.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 22:04
Yeah, definitely. And that goes back to having, you know, friends who care about the topic and building community around it. So it’s having those conversations with your partner. But it’s also having those conversations, you know, with more people to get more ideas?

Kevin Anthony 22:22
Exactly. You share stuff and people that oh, you know, I got this resource, and oh, I read this book, or I worked with this coach, or like, just sharing that the I really wanted to put this on the list. Because a lot of people don’t want to talk about sex. They’re shy about talking about sex, like they barely talk about it with their partner, right? More or less, you know, no less like with other people like, Oh, my God, other people might know, I have sex. You’re an adult. Of course, you have sex. Right? Yeah. So trying to try to normalize that idea of like, it’s okay to talk about sex on a regular basis with other people than just your partner. And of course, if you’re not talking about this on a regular basis with your partner, you really need to be you need to be having ongoing conversations all the time about it.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 23:11
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, at least with your partner, all admit a few things just so y’all feel in good company, I definitely have this shyness, and I’ve gone through the like, Oh, my other people are gonna know I have sex. And I have two kids. So like, not only am I an adult, but it’s a common thing. And you know, it’s you, it’s up to you who you feel comfortable talking with sex about. So might not be everyone but like, you know, there’s probably a few key friends you have or somebody you meet at events, but at least your partner having these meaningful conversations.

Kevin Anthony 23:44
You know, pretty much everywhere I go, if when I’m meeting new people, inevitably, somebody, so what do you do for a living? Wow, here we go. Right. And it always turns into a conversation about sex. So I’m pretty used to it at this point.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 24:03
Yep. Yep, definitely.

Kevin Anthony 24:06
Let’s let’s dive into the possible benefits, you know, we probably don’t need to spend as much time on the benefits as we did with the, you know why? Or like, how is it like a hobby, but I do want people to hear and understand what some of the possible benefits of this could be. So why don’t you start us off Jacqueline with some of the benefits here?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 24:31
Okay, number one that we have is reinvigorating your sex life. And I’m sure so many of you can relate to this, whether it’s something that’s happening now that needs to reinvigorate your sex life or something you have experienced in the past. But learning itself is such a live state. So if you need that, you know, reinvigoration for your sex life. Treating sex like a hobby is a great way to do it.

Kevin Anthony 24:57
Yeah, this is something I often see Eat with older couples who they’re done raising their kids and their sex life took a backseat for a number of years. And then they finally decide we need to do something about it. And then they start treating it as sort of their new hobby, right? And then you see that their sex life gets, like, completely transformed all over again. It’s almost like, it’s almost like a whole new second relationship, but with the same person, you know.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 25:26
Oh, that sounds fun. Talk about attraction.

Kevin Anthony 25:31
Yeah, I highly recommend that if you’ve been together for a long time, whether you’ve had kids or not weather, you know, whatever it is, like, if you find that you’re stuck in that rut, then maybe this is something that you could do to break out of that.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 25:46
Definitely. Yeah, you want to happen to number two we have here.

Kevin Anthony 25:49
Alright, so the next one, yeah, has increased understanding of your and your partner’s desires. So, you know, like I was saying earlier, a lot of people, they, they’re either just sort of on autopilot like I just know how to do sex, but they never really stopped to think about it. If you’re treating it as a hobby, you’re going to be investigating all the different little areas and avenues and, things and that might actually lead you to something really important, which is the understanding of your partner’s desires, what they actually need, what they actually want, rather than just going through the motions, I am always amazed at how many people don’t actually know what their partner wants or needs.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 26:34
Yeah, and that’s huge, just tying it to the next one here is strengthening the bond with your partner. And really understanding and knowing and wanting to know about your partner’s desires, it’s just huge in having a connection that’s truly mature, truly bonded. And, you know, it just goes so far beyond sex, because you’re really wanting to know, you know, all of the facets of your partner, including sex, and to help them be fulfilled in those areas. So, you know, there’s just so much beauty and partnership that can be explored in this realm.

Kevin Anthony 27:16
Yeah, you know, intimate events or moments are the things that really help us bond deeply. And there really isn’t anything more intimate than sex with somebody. I mean, you know, we, we don’t in this culture, we don’t always treat it as the intimate thing that it is, but we should be. And you know, whether it’s, you know, going through a health challenge, or, you know, sex or just, you know, raising kids, like all these things that are really intimate things you’re doing with your partner, definitely help increase that bond between you. And that’s why that’s why over the years, and over time, those bonds should be getting stronger because you’re having more and more of those shared experiences. And I think sex is a great way to strengthen that bond.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 28:07
Definitely, and it’s definitely fun. So our next one here is overcoming shyness when talking about sex. So, you know, treating sex like a hobby, going back to it, if you’re intuitive, you’re around people who are intuitive, you’re reading books, it’s so affirming because I think so many of us have, at least at a certain time dealt with some aspect of shame around some aspect of our sexuality. It and getting into it as a hobby just really helps overcome that shyness and go to those depths with your partner being able to talk about it and being able to explore more.

Kevin Anthony 28:49
Yeah. And, you know, there’s no, there’s no reason why we have to be so shy or slash uptight, around sex. Like, in the famous words of Larry Flynt, relax. It’s just sex. I think a lot of times, we make way too much out of it, as far as you know, just getting uptight about it. And yeah, so if you’re really treating it as a hobby, and spending a lot of time with it, you’re going to normalize it more, and you’re going to take a lot of that stigma away. And a lot of that shyness, I think will go away as well. The next one on the list, is pretty obvious. You’re going to have more sex as a result. If you’re treating it like a hobby, and it’s something you’re into and you’re researching and you’re practicing it, the inevitable results will be you’ll have more sex.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 29:38
Yes, that’s amazing. Who doesn’t want that?

Kevin Anthony 29:41
Exactly? Who does? Alright, I know there’s always a couple of outliers. Somebody will eventually see this and go, I don’t want more snacks. I don’t need more sacks. Whatever. You’re the outlier, the rest of us. We will help more. Okay.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 30:00
Okay, most people listening will want more sex. Yes. Yeah, and the next one’s you know, I think, again, most of us know this about sex play reduces stress, and so many of us are stressed. So treating sex like a hobby having more of it, less stress, everybody wins.

Kevin Anthony 30:22
Yeah, everybody wins for sure. You know, instead of prescribing everybody antidepressants, they should just prescribe them go have more sex. The feel good chemicals produced by your body will significantly increase if you’re having good sex on a regular basis. Definitely. And of course, that leads us to the next benefit, which is it’s a fun way to spend time with your partner. As a whole lot more fun than watching shows on the TV, I’ll tell you that.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 30:54
And it is. And if you are good at it, you’ll probably feel more confident. And you’ll want to do it in every free moment you have!

Kevin Anthony 31:04
Every free moment in every room of the house and every position. Never gets old for me, I’ll tell you that.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 31:13
Yep. And that’s awesome. Because our last benefit that we have here is it’s physical exercise. So not only do you get to have fun, pleasure and a better bond with your partner, but you get to be healthy.

Kevin Anthony 31:25
Yes, yes, yes, you know, it’s interesting, because lately, I have been working with a fair number of older clients, older men actually in their 60s, some of them. And one of the things that we’re running into with some of the older clients is, they’re telling me that they’re having trouble physically, not physically getting an erection, but like, holding themselves up in some of the positions that you need to be in. And so some of that is like, the reason I bring that up is because you realize sex really is a physical thing. Like it is physical, and you know, some positions and some ways of having sex or more physical than others. But it is a physical thing. And so it can be great physical exercise. Now, obviously, if you’re older, like some of the clients I brought up, what we’re working on is how can we get them more physically fit so that they can do the things that they’re struggling with now, as well as also giving them alternatives that they can do? You know, if they still can’t do some of those positions. But yeah, it’s a physical thing. And that’s great. That’s like a total side benefit of it. Yeah, you’re getting in good shape.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 32:40
But exactly,

Kevin Anthony 32:41
I do have to say, you’re not going to get in good shape. If you’re the typical, like, last five minutes long kind of guy, because five minutes of any exercise is nowhere near enough. I don’t care what it is.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 32:54
Exactly. So yeah, you gotta be training on all aspects.

Kevin Anthony 33:02
You know, while we’re on that subject, and put you on the spot again, and Jacqueline, since I have you here as a woman’s perspective, you know, what would you say like, as far as how long a man could last? Like, what is your minimum that you need a guy to be able to make love to you for?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 33:24
What is my minimum? You know, this is kind of hard to answer. Because honestly, I’ve had like, really amazing lovers in the last lots of years, probably just through the communities that I’ve been in. So maybe I’ve been spoiled a little bit. Don’t be happy hearing this,

Kevin Anthony 33:49
Ballpark it. We won’t hold you to it.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 33:52
I mean, you know, it’s amazing to last long, this is what I’m going to say it’s amazing to be able to last long, because there’s a different type of sensation, and a different experience that a woman can have if you can last longer, and that’s really beautiful. And I’ve also had lovers who didn’t last as long but like they were good with their hands and their mouths. And they were, you know, present even after orgasming some guys they get like an energy-drained drop afterwards. And they kind of just check out and not just don’t feel good emotionally, but I think it’s more about the like, I’m committed, I’m here in this moment, I’m present. What do you want? So even if you’re not there with, you know, keeping an erection or with controlling ejaculation, I think that just having that effort and that care really changes the experience.

Kevin Anthony 34:56
I agree with everything that you said. And….

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 34:59
On how to raise my expectations?

Kevin Anthony 35:05
No where I want to kind of redirect that is okay so I the way I initially phrased the question was about lasting long enough which implied having penetrative sex for a certain amount of time. let’s reframe that and say, How much time do you need a man to be able to perform regardless of what is using mouth, hands, you know, penis, whatever, before you are really like in that zone really relaxed, really opening up really getting into that orgasmic state, like, on average.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 35:40
On average, probably 20 to 30 minutes. Like if I really want to drop in. I mean, quickies are fine, especially if there’s an established relationship. But to get into like, a really nice melty space. There’s just something about the female body that needs some time.

Kevin Anthony 35:59
Okay, congratulations, wait, hold on, I’m gonna give you applause because as people have heard me say many times on this show, you know, the average, there are two main studies done, the average man lasted three to five minutes in one study five to seven minutes in another study, but the average woman took 20 to 30 minutes to orgasm. Right. And so when you’re telling me you really need like, around 20 to 30 minutes to like really drop in. That’s, that’s pretty average, you know, what Céline used to say, sometimes it would take her upwards of 40 minutes to really drop in. And that’s even with us in a really deeply connected, you know, the relationship just because to let go of all the stuff, you know, that happened during the day and to like, you know, let go of whatever insecurity she was having in the moment, or whatever it is like, and not always, I mean, there were times when, you know, we’d be super charged up but I’d penetrator and she’d come in less than five minutes, right? But, on average, it would take a longer amount of time to really get into that space, like you would be so much better at describing it because you’re you are a woman and you actually experience it. But there’s like, there’s okay, I’m lubricated enough, and I’m turned on enough to want to have sex. And then there’s the like, I’m cracked, wide open. And I’m just like, is as open as I can be. And I’m like, not just receiving you, but almost even pulling you in? Because I want more of your kind of space. Right?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 37:26
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, with quickies. Like there’s different, you know, there are orgasms that are kind of like a sneeze, that it’s like, that felt good. You know, that might be like a five to 10-minute thing, which is great. Those experiences are nice. But those 20, 30, 40 minutes, you know, I feel like the longer the session lasts, the better it gets. But it touches this, like transcendent connected to God space like yes, it’s just like, better than any meditation just so dropped in and again, that like pulling your partner in. And it’s just, yeah, if you’re hearing this and you haven’t dropped into that space, like, I know, you did an episode on you know, what you don’t know you’re missing? I don’t know the title of it. But there is this like, deeply connected deeply pleasurable, like, just mystical space. It’s amazing. So get there.

Kevin Anthony 38:31
Exactly. So yeah, that’s an order. Yes, that is an order, Jacqueline said. So you have to do it now. So yeah, I did an episode called, this is what sex could be. Are you missing out? Which is that’s what I was trying to describe. But I’m so glad. See, I’m just trying to lead you into that exact answer that you just gave because I wanted people to hear it from a woman’s perspective. I wanted them to hear it coming from you, not just me. I wanted them to hear you say things like, it’s fucking transcendent. Like, it’s like, as close as you can get to God. Like if that doesn’t motivate you to be able, you know, to do what it takes to be able to get her to those places, then I don’t know what will. So thank you for sharing that. That experience cuz I think it’s important for people to hear.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 39:19
Yeah, it’s a beautiful experience, and you have other bonus content on my sex life, which is fun for marketing purposes.

Kevin Anthony 39:32
You know, obviously, whenever there’s a beautiful woman around people want to know about her sex life. But as a teacher, I think it’s important for people to know that we live what we teach. We’re not just in our heads, theoretically talking about stuff we read in books, which is, you know until people have experienced that’s usually what they do as they go to school, they learn a bunch of stuff in books, and then they go out and they’re the expert, but I’ve never really lived it right? You see that with a lot of coaches in every area, but you also see it in and I know because I’ve talked to a lot of these coaches when I have these conversations, I’m like, I can tell you haven’t really experienced that for yourself, you know about it, but you haven’t integrated that experience. So I think it’s important for, you know, people that want to work with you to know that you live this, this is part of who you are.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 40:27
Yeah, definitely. And I agree with that sentiment, you want to know, like that your teachers are living this experience and being a sex and intimacy coach, you know, some of it was formal training in psychology. But a lot of it was just lived experience and going to these events. And similar to you, Kevin, when I started kind of down this road of, oh, this is my hobby. I didn’t know that I would be coaching and teaching it someday. I was just into it. So yeah, having somebody who has that personal experience to kind of like light the way spirit, it’s really helpful.

Kevin Anthony 41:04
Yeah, indeed. All right, we’ve got a lot more to cover. And we’re running out of time. So we’re gonna speed things up a little bit. First, a short break from the second sponsor. And then I really want to jump into how you can treat it like a hobby. We, you know, we’ve talked about, you know, sort of what it means and what the benefits are. But we want to give you real-world examples so that you don’t walk away going great, Kevin and Jacqueline said, supposed to treat it like a hobby, but how the hell do I do that right now we’re gonna give you practical stuff that you can take away and use to turn it into a hobby but first Hey, guys, do you know what makes a man great, you know, the kind of masculine man that women are irresistibly attracted to? And one Is it money job title, his body being great in bed, a big penis, great pickup lines, or maybe something else. But what if you don’t have those are only some of them. What if you’ve had a string of failed relationships are embarrassed by your bedroom skills doubt whether you can rise to the occasion worry about lasting long enough or are always stuck in the friend zone, I can help you if you are ready to make big changes and finally become the man you have always wanted to be then this is the program for you. To find out more, please go to Kevinandceline.com/go/warrior. That is Kevinandceline.com/go/warrior. The link is in the description below. That is a link to finding out how you can work with me which is my Men’s coaching program. Go check that out because a lot of what we are talking about today, you can learn through that program. Okay, so let’s get into ways that we can treat sex as a hobby.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 42:51
Fabulous. And some of these we’ve already touched on a little bit but we can go a little deeper. He goes a little deeper, sorry.

Kevin Anthony 42:59
That’s what she said!

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 43:09
I have a regular date night so make some time to treat sex like a hobby. Make time to do it.

Kevin Anthony 43:16
Yeah, right. Calendar exactly. You do this all the time with all your other hobbies you you know schedule earlier in the week, you know, the day you’re going to get out on the golf course or the day you’re going to you know, work on on your project car in the garage or get out on a mountain bike ride or whatever it is you do. You always make plans and schedule those things do the same thing with date night. This is a huge thing. Something I’ve been talking about this forever trying to get people to put it on the damn calendar. And they resist so much because I want it to be spontaneous. How’s that working out for you? How many spontaneous times if you’ve made love in the last month? I’ll wait. I’ll wait. Usually, here’s what I get. Crickets, if you can hear. I don’t know if you can even I know the listeners can hear the sound effects. I don’t know if you can. Oh, I can hear that. Yeah, I can hear them. Right. So if you’re not getting it, put it on the calendar.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 44:15
Yeah, and that doesn’t mean you need to be attached to an outcome. But just having the time set aside for sexy stuff.

Kevin Anthony 44:25
It is my favorite thing on the calendar. All right, next read books about it. There’s a ton of great books out there. I have an entire reading list. In fact, if you go to Kevin and Céline dot com forward slash vault which is always announced at the end of this show in the closing outro there. If you sign up for my email list, it gives you access to the vault and one of the many things in the vault is this reading list that Selena and I put together. It is I don’t even know how many books are on it at this point. It’s ridiculously long and it’s broken down and Men’s sexuality, women’s sexuality, couples sexuality, relationship stuff like it’s amazing. That’s a great place to start. There’s just a ton of great stuff out there that you can read that will really, really help you.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 45:15
Yeah, I second that. And the next one we have here is to listen to podcasts, which you’re doing right now on the Love Lab podcast.

Kevin Anthony 45:24
Yes. And listen to every episode I have ever done. Right? If you haven’t listened to all 274, you’ve got some work you’re not getting. Although that does greatly help, you know, get this information out there to people, the more people that listen, and the more people that subscribe to the podcast and the YouTube channel, that definitely helps but just at least go pick the topics that really speak to you and go learn more about it.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 45:53
Definitely, and also watching videos. Kevin, you’ve got your YouTube channel here. And, again, there’s just so many topics. So anything that fan beard, you fancy, go for it.

Kevin Anthony 46:09
Am I allowed to tell the listeners what we’re what we’re cooking up for the YouTube channel?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 46:15
Let’s see. Let’s keep it a secret for now.

Kevin Anthony 46:21
Sounds good? Why don’t you talk about the next one too?

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 46:25
Yep, and then also take quizzes. This is such a powerful way to learn about yourself in just a few minutes time and to also learn about your partner. I’ve taken quizzes with partners, who have been with for like years, and I’ve been like, what, that’s a thing that you’re into. And I talked to my partners a lot about sex. So some of my favorites. There’s Miss Jaya’s erotic blueprint quiz. There’s the kink test, which is on kinktest.org, I think we can put these links in the description too. And even if you’re not kinky, I know a lot of people don’t think they’re kinky, but that just means anything that’s taboo. So if there’s anything in the back of your mind, that might be a little taboo, this might just, you know, show you what those things might be, you could throw out what you don’t like. And then also make sure you go check out my new sexual potential quiz, which really has a healing spin on sexuality coming from my background. And this is going to give you the fastest path for you and for your partner to a seriously satisfying sex life. So check out those links in the description for those quizzes.

Kevin Anthony 47:33
Yeah, so that, you know, those are things that are just designed to help you get a better idea of what you like what your partner likes, and just, you know, get to understand yourself and your partner better. So those are, those are great tools to sort of guide you in the direction that you want to go. All right, next on the list is an experiment in the bedroom. You know, it’s really interesting, like, I’m going to use a musical analogy here. When people play music in front of other people. And I know that just from personal experience because I do the same thing. So for instance, if I’m playing by myself, or maybe with just a few close friends, and we’re just jamming, I will take risks, I will try things that may or may not work out and may or may not sound good, because that’s kind of part of the fun of it. And there are no repercussions for doing that. Whereas, if I’m actually performing, like people asked me to play or I’m playing out at a coffee place or something like that, I will not take the risks because I don’t want to mess up, I don’t want to screw up, I want it to sound good. I want people to enjoy it. And so I’ll play more in my comfort zone. Now I know obviously musicians who are far more accomplished than I am, will take massive risks all the time when performing live, most of us are not really at that level of skill where they can pull off that kind of you know, like jazz musicians are a great example of that they’ll go way out there like way far away from, you know, the actual tonal center of, of the music that’s playing and somehow bring it back. And it all sounds good. But most of us aren’t really able or willing to do that.

So people I think, tend to do the same thing in the bedroom in the sense that they think that they’re always performing in front of people, and they don’t take risks. And so they stay to what they know. And they don’t really expand outside of that. So I encourage you to experiment, you know, Céline and I used to say all the time, like we’ll try anything at least once and if it crashes and burns, we’ll laugh about it and we’ll go okay, let’s never do that again. In fact, the whole title of this podcast, the Love Lab podcast came from the fact that we were joking one day in bed that our bedroom was our laboratory and that we were always trying something new or different. That’s where the name came from. So I highly encourage you to do the same thing. Don’t worry too much about, you know, having to be perfect all the time experiment, try a new position. And when you fall off the bed on the floor, as long as nobody’s hurt, laugh about it, and have fun. Get up, and try something else.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 50:17
Exactly. Yeah, that laughter is so huge. And, you know, it is an experimentation, where’s the pressure, it’s usually not a performance for probably most people. So experimentation and the laughter and the playfulness allow that experimentation. And the next one we have tied into that is opening your mind about what you might be into, like really being willing to try anything. And see, like, did that work? Did that not? And if it doesn’t, it’s okay.

Kevin Anthony 50:47
I can’t tell you how many times I hear from clients like, yeah, and then we just kind of got into this routine. I have a client right now who, you know, he’s he’s divorced now. But you know, I always ask you, when when people have had major significant relationships in their life, I always want to explore that a little bit, because that has a lot to do with how they got to where they are. And so hearing him explain, you know, what his marriage and sex life was like, you know, he’s like, Yeah, we had sex on a regular basis. But it was always on this day, at this time in these positions in this way, like the same thing, every week, for years. And I hear that a lot from people. So yeah, don’t don’t allow yourself to get stuck in those ruts. So experiment. But in order to experiment, you have to have an open mind. Try different stuff. If you find out you don’t like it, don’t do it again.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 51:41
Exactly. And you know, we really need other people and community, even in our monogamous connections, if we have that, like, whether it’s a coach, or some friends talking about it, reading books, getting ideas, or our next one, attending events, there are so many different kinds of events around sex, we’ve got ones that are based on communication, we’ve got entre, there are ones about devotions about kink, sex parties about partner massage, like kind of anything you can dream up. If you live kind of near a city, you can probably find an event that you like.

Kevin Anthony 52:16
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when when you say attend events around sex, I think a lot of people instantly, like get scared about that, because you’re like, Oh, crap, sex party, that means group sex, we’re gonna have to have sex with other people or sex in front of people. And that freaks them out. But as you correctly pointed out, there’s everything, it’s a spectrum. And there’s every type of thing that you could think of everything from events where you don’t take any clothes off whatsoever, and you just learn how to move sexual energy or things where you learn how to communicate your needs better, all the way right up to full on, you know, orgy sex parties and everything in between. So, you know, find what works for you find something that you and your comfort your partner are comfortable with. And just experiment, find some new stuff.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 53:03
Exactly. And there are a lot of really amazing thoughtful facilitators out there. So you know, probably all the info you need to know, to feel comfortable in the description, have, you’re going to need to do something you don’t want to do. These events are really designed to be safe. So for the most part, that’s been my experience, they’ve been amazing and growthful.

Kevin Anthony 53:22
You know, choose, choose your facilitator wisely. So you know, do your research and pick a good one, but there’s plenty out there.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 53:30
Yeah. And, yeah, to the next point, hiring a coach, so same, you know, find a coach feel resonant with, that you’ve done your research about, and that can just really help on that journey of treating sex as a hobby.

Kevin Anthony 53:45
Yeah, I mean, you know, pretty much anything I’ve ever endeavored to learn on my own outside of like, formalized schooling, I made the most progress hiring a coach, it just it shortens the learning curve, you know, a lot. And, you know, it also allows you like a, here’s a perfect example. I have online courses, I think they’re fantastic. I recommend that people take them, you can learn a ton of stuff. And you can ask me some questions about it. But like, for instance, I’m learning a new language right now. And I’m using one of the popular apps that everybody uses, and it’s great. I’m loving it. But I often have questions like, Well, why is it like this, instead of like that? Well, why would you say it this way, instead of that way? Why would you use this word choice instead of that word choice? But I have anybody asked those questions too, right? So it’s kind of the same things like when you hire a coach and you’re working with somebody, you get a chance to actually ask them all those questions. Inevitably, there are always questions that come up, that whoever created the course of whatever it is, just didn’t think about and didn’t include in there. They don’t necessarily have an answer to so I think hiring coaches is amazingly valuable, invaluable even, you know, I mean, you don’t want to run a business. And if you think everything you see in the business I do between the podcast and YouTube and whatever it takes to run the coaching business, I figured out all on my own Nope, I figured a lot of it out on my own. But I also pay a lot of money to coaches to help them who is.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 55:21
Yeah, exactly. So much of it is so complex with sex and with everything in life. So, the same goes for me, I’ve hired a lot of coaches, you know, about sex, about life about business. And that has been such a fast track to transformation.

Kevin Anthony 55:38
All right, and the last one almost goes without saying, but we’re gonna say it anyway, practice, practice, practice, you just got to practice. If you want to be good at anything, you’ve got to practice. And I suggest, you know, I, I’m a huge proponent of like, the multi-hour, you know, sex encounters of just like waves of wave after wave after wave of orgasmic bliss. I’m a huge proponent of that, I think you should make time for that on at least a somewhat regular basis. But I understand that life is busy, and people have a lot going on. And that’s not always possible. So at least set aside a little bit of time, you know, what they say you want to learn a language, you want to learn an instrument, like 10 minutes a day, every day is better than an hour, once a week, right? So take at least a little bit of time throughout the week to focus on this, you know, maybe you have a date night, one night, maybe you’re reading a book about it, you know, another night or two, maybe you watch a movie or documentary or show about it or something. You put just a little bit of time, repeatedly over time. That’s really what’s gonna get you to where you want to be.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 56:53
Yeah, exactly. And now we’re gonna hop into our personal stories, which we have been waiting for. Drumroll.

Kevin Anthony 57:06
Alright, drumroll. Well, yeah, yeah, please.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 57:11
Okay, I’ll dive in first. So, Kevin, I think you wanted to know, one of the ways I’ve treated sex, like a hobby in my own life. And this was something that as a woman, you know, when I’m thinking about my sex life, I think a lot about how I can open more be more expansive, and more in surrender these feminine qualities. And I ran an experiment on how I could expand more into my pleasure. So I got really into it, you know, I started an experiment of just having pleasure sessions with myself. And I talked to my girlfriend’s about it, I was reading books about it. And just, I remember, it’s starting, I was following a book, maybe I can think of it and put it in the description. But it wasn’t at first starting with sexual touch. This practice was just being present with giving myself pleasure in my body. And noticing whatever discomfort came up, to be able to unlock for me what was truly there, which is that true intimacy and connection to self. And just noticing like, Hmm, do I want to stop? Why, like, is, is someone knocking on my door? Like, do I have a meeting in two minutes? No, like, just breathing through the like, Oh, this feels pleasurable just touching my thighs or my feet. But like, I noticed there were so many times where I was like, hmm, I want to stop. And when breathing through those moments, and continuing even with those, like, I don’t know that monkey mind the chatter, whatever it is, that’s like, ah, something else to do. Those layers of bliss, as I talked about, before that transcendence space that connected to God space, I got more access to it. So that was one of the things that I did. That was years and years ago to treat sex like a hobby in my own life. And it was awesome. I still do that practice. It’s never-ending. Yep, that’s mine. Yeah. What about you?

Kevin Anthony 59:26
Well, just to comment on your real quick, I mean, I think I think that was really amazing. And, you know, as guys, pretty much from the moment we touch our penises as young boys and go, Hey, that feels good. Like, we’re kind of doing that self-pleasure experiment all the time. But from what I hear from a lot of women is that’s not necessarily the case. And so I think that’s a fantastic way for women to really learn about their bodies and understand Oh, I like this. I don’t like this. Oh, like if I do it, this I can feel this or like, I think that’s great as a really A wonderful way to experiment and learn more about yourself and what you like and what you don’t like.

For me, I mean, I can remember as far back as, I guess, being a teenager when I started having sex, and like, whenever I would have sex, I would always think, Okay, that was pretty good. But how can I do better, like I always wanted to do better, I always always motivated to give my partner more pleasure. And so it was kind of a really a lifelong pursuit of just, you know, oh, here’s an interesting book that came across my path that teaches you, you know, tantra or Taoism, or, you know, some other technique. And as I got older, and had more access to, you know, events and groups, and you know, materials and things like that, I just kept pursuing it over and over again, and then taking everything that I had learned, and putting it into practice. And I was very fortunate that the partners that I’ve had over the years, we’re always up for, they’re always like, Ah, sure, let’s try it out and see how it works. You know, and, of course, spending a lot of time around sex-positive communities, means you tend to meet people that are a bit more open, and you know, willing to go on that experiment in that journey with you. You know, something, of course, being the most notable example, which is, you know, I was doing all this stuff for years long before I ever met her. And, of course, I knew her for several years before we got together. But, you know, then when we did get together, it was like, you know, I had all my experience, she had all hers, and it’s like, alright, yeah, let’s, let’s bring that together.

And as many people know, who’ve listened to this show, we did not originally decide to work together. In fact, I had stopped, I had paused my coaching, I wasn’t even doing coaching anymore for a while. But she was doing hers. And, you know, I was doing something else. And I was supporting her with her business and her work, but I wasn’t working with her. But we were doing all of these things together on our own outside of the workspace. And, you know, we would have these amazing discussions, we would have all these interesting, you know, experiments and practices and things like that. So much. So to the point that one day we said, you know, okay, we really need to start actually putting this out there together as the work and so we were just living it because it was something that we both enjoyed until we decided to actually really bring it out there to the world. As a mutual friend of ours, Jacqueline, I won’t say his name on the show. But he was also very close with Céline. And he was over one day, we were just talking about life stuff, and you know what to do in the world. And, you know, he just looked at me one day, and he said, if you have knowledge that can help people, and you don’t share it with them, you’re an asshole.

So, you know, I do tend to agree with him, the world needs a lot of help. And if you’re an expert in an area, and you’ve got knowledge that can help other people find a way to share it with him, you don’t have to make it your living if you don’t want to, but at least put it out there for people to, for people to find because you never know who you’ll be able to help. And you know, one of my favorite things about doing this work. You know, of course, I love getting great feedback from my clients, but we establish a relationship over the time that we work together. So, you know, I It’s not that I expect that kind of feedback, but I understand it more. And it’s amazing, and that’s great. And but when random strangers that I don’t even know who I’ve never met, comment on these podcasts or on my YouTube videos about how it changed their lives that to me just blows my mind. Like just taking the time to put a video together like this might radically transform somebody’s life. And so that’s pretty amazing to me.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 1:04:20
Oh, yeah, that is the best feeling is getting those comments from somebody who watched a YouTube video or podcast or read a blog and comments about how it shifted. You know, we they see the world or their relationship, just super touching. I love that feeling.

Kevin Anthony 1:04:37
All right, well, we are definitely out of time. But I want to make sure Jacqueline that you have an opportunity to tell the listeners what you’ve got going on. I know you want to invite them to something that you have coming up so please let them know about that.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 1:04:52
Yes, I do. I am so excited because I have a free live training coming up on Saturday. on November 18, at 10am Pacific Time, called three keys to elevate your sex life. And this event is for couples and I’m limiting to the event to only five couples to maintain an intimate atmosphere. So if you want to be a part of that, be sure to grab the link in the description and reserve your seat today. And during that training, you’re going to discover effective strategies to communicate your desires. So you can have more intimacy, authenticity, and pleasure in your sex life. Trust me when I say you can have the kind of sex you want. And this training is interactive. And it’s just an amazing opportunity to get some free coaching, and to connect with other people who are like-minded and you’ll just walk away with a deeper connection to yourself and your partner and new tips you can immediately apply to your sex life. So there are only five seats for couples. Each couple only needs one ticket to three keys to elevate their sex life. So make sure you go to the link in the show notes and reserve your spot right now.

Kevin Anthony 1:06:06
All right, thank you, Jacqueline, for being on the show. I hope everybody enjoyed it because we’re already planning another show. Alright, that is all the time that we have today. I hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for listening, and I will see you next week.

Jacquelyn Ava Sophia 1:06:28
All right. Bye, everyone.

Kevin Anthony 1:06:35
I hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with your friends. And for more free exclusive content. Join me in the passion vault at KevinandCéline.com/vault. That’s KevinandCéline.com/vault. Thanks for listening. And remember, as Céline used to say you’re amazing!