Kevin Anthony 00:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex of your life.

Kevin Anthony 00:27
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 416, and it is titled “A Woman’s Journey of Transcending Social, Cultural, and Religious Boundaries and Finding Sexual Freedom. You know, I’ve talked on this show. I’ve had numerous guests on before where we’ve talked about, you know, sort of transcending the social and the cultural and the religious. But all of those people that I’ve had on the show have been other coaches like myself or therapists or something like that. And today, my guest is- while she is a coach, she’s personally gone through this, and so what we’re really going to talk about today is what her journey was like. You know, we’re gonna we’re gonna explore where she was, sort of what made her decide to embark on this journey. What was the journey like? What did she learn? And I’m really hoping that through her story, she can inspire anybody who’s listening to potentially embark on their own journey of transcending all of the rules and boundaries that societies and religions and families and all kinds of other things place on us, so that you can find what is true and authentic for yourself. So that’s the goal for today’s show.

Kevin Anthony 01:47
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Kevin Anthony 02:48
Okay, I have a guest on the show today, and her name is Raina. She’s a podcast host, author, speaker, and healing facilitator, guiding people out of toxic relationship patterns and into self-worth, healthier boundaries, and healthier relationships through the rate framework, affirmations, and holistic tools. Insight becomes practice, and practice becomes lasting change. This is where the shift happens, the rising begins, and a new version of you emerges. So, welcome to the show, Raina.

Rania 03:22
Hi, thank you.

Kevin Anthony 03:24
All right. So obviously, I kind of I did a little setup at the beginning where I was talking about you know you’ve been through this journey yourself. So sort of how we got connected was through a mutual friend, and you had been doing a podcast series on your own podcast, where you did a whole series around things of you know sexual topics, basically, and that seemed from you know what you had shared with me that was sort of something new to you. That was a little bit of a stretch to be out there talking about some of these things. So I wonder, could you share with the audience before you decided to do that? Before you went on this journey of sort of finding out what you know sex means to you and becoming more comfortable with it, what what was your life like? How did you view sex? What were any challenges you had around it?

Rania 04:24
I want to introduce myself a little differently, if that’s okay with you. Of course, I want to put Rebel as my middle name. You want to say Aranya and whatever else you want to have after it; put Rebel in there, because I think that’s exactly what ended up having to happen for me to be sitting here having this conversation with you. I had to rebel against everything that I’ve known, that I was raised with, that I grew up with, to bring me to this point. Just as you mentioned, to use my voice and to open up and to find ways to be comfortable.Talking about such a subject is not easy for many women, like me as well, right? So if you want me to talk a little bit about my background, I come from an Arabic background, and anyone who’s listening or watching right now is gonna totally understand that when it comes to the Arabic culture, they know what it’s like. It’s very reserved, very like behind closed doors.

Rania 05:24
Sex is one of those topics that just isn’t talked about, and even sometimes within each household, it’s considered a taboo subject. The word itself doesn’t even get mentioned, and I’m no different. I grew up in a family environment in a culture where sex was not something okay to talk about or even mention. Never mind being educated on it; let’s just say, your caregivers, your parents, or extended family. So that’s kind of where it began. It was a taboo subject. We don’t talk about it. Again, I come from I wouldn’t say like a super religious background, but yes, a Christian background. And again, the Bible says, you know, it’s a sin. It’s a sin to have sex, if especially if you’re not married, right? So that’s what we’re going to talk about.

Kevin Anthony 06:18
So how did this affect your relationships? Because you know your sort of awakening around all of this is somewhat new, which means that you’ve gone a significant portion of your life still, you know, dealing with the challenges of this upbringing. How did that affect, you know, relationships, your sex life, that sort of thing?

Rania 06:41
So first of all, it affected me even getting a boyfriend. My very first boyfriend was towards the end of high school, I recall, and it was a crazy experience. Everything was so new to me, and we were talking at the age of, what, 18, around the, yeah, 17, 18. That was my first boyfriend experience, and my first kiss. I still remember my first kiss. How awkward it was. I didn’t know what was going on, right? And he was older than me by a few years, so he was a little more experienced, and not from my culture, and it was just so weird. He was, you know, trying to get a little intimate with me, and I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what’s going on here? Like, doesn’t feel comfortable, and it felt like it was wrong. It felt like I was not supposed to do this. I was okay with the kissing, but I wasn’t okay with anything else, right?

Rania 07:39
So, I don’t want to say I was traumatized because sometimes it’s a big word to use, but that was my first experience. That was my reference point for how things started for me in that realm. And then, of course, you know, one relationship after the next. But then, most of my early relationships were secretive. I could not have this be public knowledge to my family. It was a no-no. Like a girl, an Arabic girl like me, single. No, we don’t do boyfriends. We don’t do kissing. We don’t do sex. Period. Full stop.

Kevin Anthony 08:18
Yeah. So you know, I would say that the first experience you had, while maybe a little bit later than some, I think most people, you know, feel weird and awkward and not sure and all of that. So that’s not terribly unusual. But what is unusual is how that continues to stay with you as you continue to get older and get more experience. And then, of course, the part that you just brought in of having to hide everything, hide your relationships, right? I mean, how difficult was it to hide it? Like, how did you navigate that?

Rania 08:53
It was very difficult because everything had to be so complicated, even just to have a phone call. You know, like you’re at that age. Obviously, you can’t be out all the time. So, and of course, I had a curfew, right? I had to be back home at a certain time. I could not go out, be outside of the house. Doesn’t matter what the reason is, like not allowed. So, I would have this person have his sister call the house so that I knew that my parents would answer. So they would say, “Ah, this is a girl, and then after she was like, “Okay, he’s here. He’ll talk to you, right? And then we’d have a conversation.

Rania 09:29
But then I told them to be very careful because I knew back then, of course, we were using landlines, back in the day. So I knew that they would pick up the phone, and I knew when they would pick up the other phone. That means they’re gonna be listening in. Like that’s how serious it was. So then I’d be like, yes, okay, and I’ll just come up with any, like, whatever name of the girl’s name of the. Okay, I’ll talk to you later then. Okay, and then hang up right away because if they were to hear, oh, oh, yeah.

Kevin Anthony 09:59
Did did they catch on?

Rania 10:02
I don’t think so. I have not found out the consequences of that. I mean, maybe they didn’t. We’re trying to figure out how to handle it without confronting me. But to my knowledge, if they had found out, I think I would have out of yeah experienced something that’s so pretty.

Kevin Anthony 10:23
So this is all, of course, all happening while you’re living at home. You’re still young. At a certain point, you’re out on your own. Do you did you still see this affecting your ability to have relationships even after you left your parents’ home?

Rania 10:41
So what ended up happening, without getting into too many details- just, you know, a little private- but I ended up getting married very young, and like literally pretty much after high school, and I married an individual that was not accepted by my family’s culture. So I ended up leaving the house to be with my husband, right? Which again, of course, this relationship didn’t work out because it was not the right one. I was very young. I didn’t know what I was doing, but you see, this is the outcome. This is the result of when parents are being controlling? You know you have to conform to a culture, to a religion, whatever it may be. There is that chance. I’m not saying that every girl is going to do this. There is a chance that, first of all, she will lie. She will hide things. She will do things behind your back. She may hurt herself in the process. She may do things just to oppose because, hey, you’re telling her not to do it, so she will do it, or do what I did, which is end up falling in love with someone who presented freedom for me, and that got me into not the right relationship and into a marriage, right?

Rania 12:00
That wasn’t the right one, and experience whatever you experienced afterwards. But that is the result. And if we’re having this conversation here, I would really urge parents out there who are listening to this or watching this to know that yes, you love your kids, yes, you want what’s best for them, but too much strictness, just because you want them to follow what you believe is right, you can lose them. And thank you for giving me that space to say that.

Kevin Anthony 12:31
You’re welcome, and it’s absolutely true, and it’s powerful to hear it from somebody who went through it. And you know, so of course, one message is to the parents, right? Which is what you just delivered, and the other message is to, you know, young people who may be in a similar situation to that. Like, think about the consequences of the decisions that you make, right? So you were saying you chose that relationship simply because it represented freedom, because it got you out of the house, it got you out from under, you know what you felt was, you know, oppression, but ultimately it didn’t serve you well because it wasn’t the right relationship. The reasons for choosing that relationship weren’t the right ones.

Rania 13:18
And I’d like to add something, Kevin, to this. Having said that, yes, it wasn’t the right relationship. Yes, I went into it for the wrong reasons. Yes, I hurt myself in the process. But you know what, Kevin? I don’t regret doing it, and I’ll tell you why. Had I not taken that step at the age of 19, I wouldn’t be this Rania sitting here. I wouldn’t be, hands down, because in the process of trying to find my way through, to find me, to be able to express myself in a relationship, to fall in love with the person I want to fall in love with, to have sex if I want to actually enjoy that. In order to be that, I had to do something drastic, and that drastic measure was to leave the environment that kept me stuck, that kept me unable to find out who Rania actually is what Rania actually wants. What would make Rania happy to explore to being me? Period. I would not have been able to find me had I not taken that step.

Rania 14:33
So, as much as I want to also give some suggestions, advice, if you want to call it, to other girls out there who are at that age where you don’t know what you’re doing, just don’t get married. All I have to say is, please don’t go and think that if you were to go and get married, that this relationship or whatever it is that you’re doing or having sex, it’s almost like we have. To go get married in order to justify having sex-that’s what it’s about. That’s what it boils down to, and that’s what actually ended up happening with me. The reason why I pushed my partner at the time that I fell in love was to get married. I’m like, okay, well, the only way my parents are going to accept us being together is that we have to get married because, according to the culture, according to the religion, you can’t have sex without marriage because it’s wrong. It’s forbidden.

Rania 15:27
So what I ended up doing is saying, “Okay, well, let’s get married. Then I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea what I was getting myself into, but I did that so I could enjoy having sex. You see, it’s like a trade-off. But then you don’t. When you’re young, you don’t know what you’re getting yourself into, and you don’t know that getting into marriage is one thing. Getting out of it is a whole other story, especially you know when it was like legal and you gotta go through all the documents. Oh, a mess! And of course, also if you have children, it becomes even more complicated. Now, I was lucky that I didn’t have children in that first marriage, so that helped me out.

Kevin Anthony 16:02
Yeah, so it makes total sense, right? I mean, you were seeking freedom. You wanted to be able to explore sex. The only way you could do that was by getting married and getting out from under, you know, the restrictions. So now, now you’re married. You’re out from underneath those restrictions; you’re able to have sex. What was your sex life like during your marriage?

Rania 16:27
Actually, it was very good. Have to admit, I enjoyed it. So, I was a virgin when I got married, right? And I was so proud of that. I was so proud of that for the longest time, like, yeah, I was a virgin when I got married, so my husband is my first, because that’s what you’ve been taught to believe-that you have to be pure, you have to be a virgin when you get married, and your husband should be the first person to like touch you, right? And I was so proud of that, but yeah, I mean, generally speaking, my sex life was really good. I, of course, he taught me everything, right? Like, I didn’t know anything. I didn’t know, I didn’t know anything. Let’s put it that way. I didn’t know anything, and that experience before with the boyfriend that I was just kissing, you know, that was just like the tip of the iceberg, right? Yeah. So, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it, and I started to find out. Oh, I actually enjoyed this. There is a part of me here that I want to explore more, and that gave me the opportunity. That was the beginning of that experience.

Kevin Anthony 17:29
Yeah, honestly, you were kind of one of the lucky ones because one of the things that I see somewhat often in situations like this is that when people don’t have the opportunity to have some type of sexual experience beforehand, but also experience with this person that they’re committing their life to, often what happens is they end up married. Now it’s time to finally be physical with each other, and they find out it just doesn’t work. It’s not compatible. They don’t enjoy sex with their partner, right? And now they’re like, now what do I do? Because I’m married. If they were in this situation because of a religious, you know, upbringing, a lot of times then the woman will feel the pressure. Well, I’m the wife. I’m supposed to do this. So now she’s, you know, providing sex in the relationship because she has to, not because she wants to. It’s not actually fulfilling or satisfying for her, and it just becomes really difficult for both parties involved.

Kevin Anthony 18:31
So I just want to say, one, you were lucky, and two, I want people to realize that, you know, as a professional doing this, I have heard this more times than I can count. Where people will tell me stories that they didn’t really have either a lot or any experience. They rushed into marriage when they were very young and found out that the sex in the relationship was terrible and didn’t work for them, and it always has a negative impact on the relationship. Some of them were able to find their way through it with help and get back on track, but I would say the majority of the people that I’ve talked to about this it ends up ending the relationship.

Rania 19:13
Yes, yes, definitely. I have to admit that I was lucky. I was lucky on that front. At least one thing felt right. I mean, it caused me so much trouble in my familial relationships. Right, like I was actually disowned for a few years because of that decision, and that was a big loss for me. And I had to, I had to figure out being a woman. I was now a woman. I was now responsible for a home to cook, to clean, and, you know, and to have a sexual relationship with someone who’s now my husband. And I was very blessed that his family took me in like I was their own, and I felt very loved. Yeah, I was. It was. It was a good experience in that sense. Now, again, I mentioned in the beginning, it wasn’t the right relationship. He wasn’t the right person for me. There were other factors involved there. It wasn’t all amazing, but on the front of the sexual experience itself, I have to say that he. It was the beginning for me of exploring my sexuality and knowing that I actually enjoy this, that I actually love this, and I could be me and figure out what makes me happy, what I enjoy, and that was the beginning. And if, if I may, of course, continue on with the the story, if that’s okay with you?

Kevin Anthony 20:34
Yes, please.

Rania 20:35
That eventually it ended, obviously, and then I went through a period of time. Now we’re talking in my 20s, right? In my 20s, where I became free to be me, and to explore, and to have sexual relations without being married. And at this point, I’m like, oh, oh my god, I’m doing what I’m not supposed to be doing. So on one hand, I was doing what I wanted to do, but I still had to be secretive about it because eventually, at some point, my family came back into my life after I left that marriage because that’s what I was all about. Like they wanted; they did not want me to be with this person. Period. So when I left that relationship and that marriage, things became better with the family. But I maintained my independence. I never lived back home again after that. I kind of stayed away and continued being me.

Rania 21:32
So during that time, if I was gonna be seeing someone like dating now, just normal, like a normal person, like anybody else wants to date, and of course, it may have sexual relations. I’d have to lie again. I went back to lying. So here I am, a grown woman in my 20s, and I still have to lie. I still have to make up stories. I wanted to go on a trip with my boyfriend at some point in one of those times, and I had to make up a story that I’m going on a trip with a girlfriend that my family knew because that was the only way they were gonna be okay with it without making a fuss. Like, even as you’re a grown woman, when you have family from that background, they’re so strict like that. You’re still gonna experience the problems, the troubles. It’s not going to go away just because you’re growing older. It just takes different shapes and forms.

Rania 22:27
And someone like myself now is going to have to try and be creative of the ways of almost living a double life, where you want to be you, but then you have to pretend in front of your family that you’re this innocent and pure person that isn’t doing anything wrong, and I use the parentheses here wrong according to them, according to culture, according to religion, whatever they believe in. So that kind of went on throughout my 20s and even into my 30s. And I guess I could wrap this up and just say that my second marriage was when I was 42, and in a way, I have to admit, I in a way repeated what I did at 19, where I wanted to be a mom. That was like one thing I ever wanted to do: to be a mother, and I knew that the only way my family was gonna accept that I would be a mother was if I were to be married to my partner.

Rania 23:33
So when I introduce, of course, when I had boyfriends, they would never know about it. I just had boyfriends, and they would not know about it. This one I introduced, and with the intention that we’re gonna get married, simply because I knew I wanted to have a baby. Now again, the marriage didn’t work out, and that ended up being like the most toxic relationship of my life, and I got out of it with no children, and it got to a point where I had to release that. It almost felt like wanting to be a mom put me in that position where I pressured myself once again 20 years later, doing the same thing again. Why? Because I want to please my family, follow, conform in some way, where I’m living the double life. That’s what I did. That’s I continued to do to myself.

Kevin Anthony 24:25
Yes, and you know, I think it’s wonderful that you can take responsibility for the decisions that you’ve made, which is, I think, extremely empowering in life. Anytime we can look at a decision that we’ve made and go, “Yeah, ultimately, I was the one that made that decision. I think that’s important and empowering. And at the same time, I also just kind of want to point out to the people who are listening that, you know, here you are now. You’re a grown woman in your 40s, and this, you know, family, cultural, religious stuff is still influencing the decisions that you’re making. This is why it’s so important to break free from this stuff because, you know, you wouldn’t have rushed into that marriage if it wasn’t for the fact that you were, you know, trying to get approval from your family, right? You would have made different decisions. You were doing the best you could at the time, making the decisions that you thought were the best for you, and that you could make that would enable you to do what you wanted to do.

Kevin Anthony 25:31
But ultimately, they were still being influenced by something outside. And you know, there’s a lot of pressure from, you know, our society these days to, you know, listen to all the so-called experts and people that supposedly know better. And while I have no doubt that your parents felt they had your best interest in mind, a lot of the other influences that you know were subject to do not actually have our best interest in mind. They have their own selfish interest of control in getting us to do whatever it is they want us to do, and so what I just what I really want people to hear from this is how important it is to take self responsibility, self ownership, to pursue what you want to pursue in life, whatever that is, whether it’s I want to learn to be more sexual or I want to do a different career, you know, like it’s just really important not to allow these things to dictate the course of your life because inevitably, then at some point you wake up and you’re 5060, years old, and you’re like, I lived my whole life for somebody else, and I never really did what I wanted to do, and that’s a tough place to be in.

Rania 26:47
Yes, Kevin, and I’m happy to say that now I’m in my late 40s, and my life looks very different. I learned to set boundaries with my parents; I learned to stand up for myself and tell them, “This is me. Take it or leave it. Accept me as I am, or don’t. I don’t need your approval. I don’t need you to like every decision that I make. If you think that I’m making a mistake, okay, that’s your opinion. If you think I’m going to hell, okay. Well, I’m like, I’m serious. I actually said those words because I got tired. I was fed up, Kevin. I was fed up with living the double life. Now I no longer live a double life. Now I still choose what to share, what not to share. Not because I’m scared, but because I just want to have peace.

Rania 27:38
Because I realize that they’re not going to change. They’re never gonna become different because that’s who they are and that’s all they know. Their intention at the end of the day, I know, is love and care. They’re going about it not the best of ways. You know, there are other parents out there who maybe would do things differently. After a few of those incidents that happened in their in their relationship with their kids, they will start to self-reflect and say, “Okay, well, what am I doing here as a parent? I need to get closer to my child now, right? Like maybe let’s have these conversations. Let me see what what what my child wants. What does my daughter really need? What makes her happy? Where does she see herself? What are her values? And trust in that. Trust in your upbringing. Trust in how you raised your children, right? And there are parents out there who are doing this, who are self-correcting, who are self-reflecting on their role to play in the madness, in the chaos of that relationship of child-parent, right? Where it comes to sexuality, of course, as well.

Kevin Anthony 28:37
Yeah, I definitely want to hear a little bit more about the process of setting those boundaries with your parents. I also want to dive into maybe some of the things you learned because we kind of skipped over this like 20s and 30s period where you were exploring.

Rania 28:57
You want to talk about the wild days, don’t you?

Kevin Anthony 28:59
Well, yes, a little bit, but the reason I want to talk about it is because I want to explore a little bit more about the progression and some of the things you learned from it, so that we can extract some lessons to share with the people. So I want to do that on the other side of the break, right here.

Rania 29:17
Sounds good.

Kevin Anthony 29:19
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Kevin Anthony 30:26
All right. So let’s first talk about how you approach setting boundaries with your family. So at a certain point, you just decided, I can’t live like this anymore. I can’t hide everything. I can’t live a double life. I need to set some boundaries with them. Like, were you scared to do this? How did you approach it? What was their reaction? Did it take more than one time of setting boundaries before they kind of caught on that they didn’t really have a choice but to follow? Like, how did that process go?

Rania 31:05
To be honest, Kevin, I’m not even sure that I’m successful at this point. Still don’t know. I think I have. I think I have. But this was more of a recent time. It’s not like something that happened a while ago. I told you, like I, I got married at 42, and that didn’t end up being a good, you know, relationship, and that ended, and I had to go through a healing process, like a long healing process. And I want to say that this was more of a recent thing where I really stood my ground, and how I did it well, it was by conversation a little bit. I see. I realize that talking about it isn’t going to change a thing because it’s going to be just back and forth. I’m going to want to prove my point. I’m going to want to prove that point. It’s going to be an argument.

Rania 31:53
So talking actually wasn’t the approach. It was being. It was Rania being herself and acting. It was my actions, like I just decided I was gonna do what Rania needs to do. So whenever I was just being myself, then I would hear it, like, “Oh, what are you doing? All that, right? And my responses were non-argumentative, argumentative. My responses were not up for debate, not up for discussion, not up to okay. Well, let me see what you need or what you want from me. It was like, okay, yeah, this is me. Yeah, this is what I like to do, and yes, that’s what I’m going to be doing. Done. Like I said, no discussion. There’s no discussion because at the end of the day, I know where they’re at. So, what difference does it make talking about it anymore? Zero. Nothing will come out of it. I just had to be me, show up as me, and deal with the consequences one situation after. It’s like it’s an ongoing process, where little by little, the questions became fewer, the interference became less, and the scolding and the telling me how wrong I am became less.

Rania 33:22
But what ends up happening now? It’s been a few years like this, Kevin, where there’s a period of peace, and then an explosion, and then peace, and then an explosion. So about once every two years, there will be a huge volcano eruption, where everything is like right, and then it’ll And then it’ll be like, okay, calm down. So, so when there’s peace, I’m like, okay, when is the next one coming? I know, I know what is coming soon. So I’m prepared. I’m prepared mentally. I’m prepared emotionally. It doesn’t faze me anymore. I don’t take it personally. I don’t let it affect my decisions anymore. I’ve already made my choice. See, people in my situation who come from similar backgrounds have two choices. Actually, maybe they have three choices. One is to conform and just negate and deny who they want to be, especially of themselves, and just live according to the rules to be a good person, to be a good girl, a good boy, whatever, or rebel completely and like kind of just do whatever they want, and it doesn’t matter even if it comes to cutting off family from their lives, they’ll do that. And then there are the ones which I mentioned earlier, which is like one foot in and one foot out, the double life where you show them one thing, but then you try to live your life. So I’ve kind of done all three.

Rania 34:43
Now I’m in the balance between the double life part and that I don’t give a you know whatever anymore, and I’m just gonna do me when you like it or you don’t. So that’s where I’m at now. That’s how setting up the boundaries came about, and it’s been an evolution. Right, and as I said, I don’t know if it’s 100% like it worked, like they got it finally through their heads. I cannot tell you because I’m still experiencing it day in and day out.

Kevin Anthony 35:11
But you know, I really, really love the way that you shared that because, again, my whole point with this episode is for people who might be in similar situations to be inspired to live the life they want to live, and you know, it’s one thing you know to have an expert say this. Step one is, you know, step two is, I mean, there’s value in that I’m not discounting it, but to hear the actual process that you went through and the realities of that process, I think, was tremendously powerful. I hope that people listening think the same thing, but it certainly felt that way to me. Like it is a process. It is difficult. It isn’t going to be solved overnight, and there are ways that it will potentially need to be managed, right? But it’s working as well, even though it may not be 100%. So I think what you shared is really inspiring and powerful, and it’s just it’s real, like it’s real.

Rania 36:21
It is, it is, Kevin, and I’m proud of the woman that I’ve become today. Standing up for myself, setting those boundaries, and knowing that no, I’m not wrong for wanting to be me. No, I’m not wrong for having different beliefs and values about sex and marriage. If I once upon a time believed that yes, you know you should be virgin when you get married because that’s what I was taught based on religion or culture or whatever, and some people still believe it, and that’s okay if it suits them, if they are convinced that it’s what they want to do for them, I’m not saying there’s something right or wrong, I’m saying everyone needs to decide for themselves what is that right and what is that wrong.

Rania 37:06
Don’t live your life according to what other people, a culture, or a whole society expect you to be. If you feel different, then be different. If there are consequences of being different, then be prepared for those consequences, because again, you only have a few choices: conform and deny yourself to live the best way you can be, or to rebel and live the way you want to live. Because all you really want to do is be happy. That’s it. That’s all we want. Why do I want to do the things that I want to do? I want to have happiness in my life. And if having sex without being married makes me happy with a partner that I don’t need to marry, we’re just getting to know each other, we’re having a relationship, and we are exploring our sexuality. What’s wrong with that? I don’t see that I’m doing anything wrong in doing that. If I choose to never get married again after two marriages, that’s okay; that was my experience.

Rania 38:11
Again, I’m not telling people not to go get married, right? If that’s what you want to do, go for it. If what makes you happy, don’t do it because of what everybody else expects you to, or that’s the again parentheses normal. There is no such thing as normal when it comes to your sexual relationship, to your exploration, and to whether you want to get married or not. Do what makes you happy. You’re not hurting anyone. Other people will make you believe that you’re hurting them by your actions, but that’s where the manipulation comes in. That’s where control comes in, and see through it. When they start telling you, because actually this was told to me. My mom actually said to me, “Rania, you don’t understand that your actions are affecting us and our family. So my actions of who I want to marry, or whether I don’t want to get married, or whether I’m divorced, she’s blaming me for those choices and decisions in my life. I looked at her, and I said, “Mommy, I’m just living life. This is what happens in my life happens to many people.

Rania 39:22
We don’t always know if we’re going to pick the right partner. We don’t. We don’t go into a marriage knowing that it’s going to end up bad and we’re going to end up divorcing. We don’t know those things. We try things out. We take risks. We live life, and then life shows us the way, and then we make decisions accordingly. And I said, “Would you rather me stay in, like, in an abusive marriage just so you can say, ‘Hey, but my daughter is staying in her marriage. She’s living according to what society wants. Would you be happy for me? Would you feel safe? Would you feel safe with that?” Knowing that I’m in an abusive marriage, would that make you feel happy? Because if that makes you happy, something is wrong with you. Of course, she’s like, of course not. You know that’s not true. I want you to be happy. I said, then why are you getting involved in my decision-making and in my choices?

Rania 40:17
Why are you trying to make me feel guilty for simply living life, just a girl going through her life, managing just like every person on this planet is, just like you did? You once upon a time made those choices. You married my dad. You, you know, immigrated from one country to the next. Whatever other decisions that you’ve made, you’ve made them because you were living life. No one came to you and told you What are you doing with your life and your decisions? No. So why are you giving yourself to say that to me? That was a tough conversation to have.

Kevin Anthony 40:51
I bet. You know, one of the things that I think is interesting and a big point I’ve tried to make to people for years and years and years is that the overwhelming majority of things that they think and believe were given to them by somebody else, and not come to through their own experience, their own judgment, their own wants, needs, whatever. It’s most of what we believe is just given to us, and some of it’s given to us so early on in life that we don’t question it, and we actually think it’s our own when it’s really not.

Kevin Anthony 41:28
And you know, as we said earlier, at least I said earlier, not everybody has your best interest in mind. They’re giving you a lot of this stuff, but it’s not necessarily what’s right for you, and of course they don’t care about that. And I want to come back to one other point you made too, and I’m really glad that you said it the way that you did, because you started off by saying, “Well, you know, I want to live my life the way I want to live it. I want to do what I want to do, which is great. Taken to the wrong extreme, however, that line of thinking can cause you to do things that do negatively impact other people, and so I love that you brought in that other piece of look. I’m not hurting anybody, right? I’m just living my life. The actions I’m taking aren’t actually hurting anybody.

Kevin Anthony 42:17
So I am a big fan of, you know what they call natural law. It takes a bit of an explanation to explain what that really means. But if I could boil down natural law to the simplest possible explanation that leaves out all the nuance and detail, I would call it simply this: You can do whatever you want as long as you don’t negatively impact anybody else, right? And so that’s basically exactly the path that you were taking. You decided I’m going to live my life as long as I’m not hurting anybody else, and that’s beautiful. I think anyway. I also think it’s incredibly empowering, and to do it from that point of view of realizing that I need to do it by being careful that I’m not negatively impacting other people, I think is the right way to embark upon it. Now it’s interesting, right? Because your parents then come back and they say, “But you are negatively impacting us. Well, just because they don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s actually negatively impacting them, right? If we were in a court of law and they were trying to sue you, we would say, “Sorry, you don’t lack standing because you’re not actually an injured party in this.

Rania 43:38
You got it. What’s really happening here is that I’m, I’m opposing, I am rebelling, I am going against. Again, I’ll use the norm, right? And I am being a mirror at the same time of some of the things that perhaps at some point they questioned, but didn’t have the guts to go as far as what I’ve done, and I find this many times. I mean, in many things, I’m like poking without realizing that I’m poking. I’m poking through those misconceptions and beliefs that were carried on from generations and from cultural beliefs and religious beliefs. I’m poking at it, and I’m putting it in their face, and they’re like, they don’t know how to respond at times because they don’t have an answer. Because I say, where did this come from? Who made this okay? Who made this not okay? Why? I ask a lot of whys, right? And they don’t have an answer. And many times it’s like, well, this is the way it’s supposed to be. They’re not answer.

Rania 44:51
Again, as you said, it’s just being carried, and that’s all they know. And that’s where I mean, if I may conclude this whole thing here, is that I have a peaceful relationship with my family right now. I have a peaceful relationship with them because, as I said, I don’t argue back. I choose what I say, what I don’t say. I’ve set the boundary. I understand that they’re never gonna see me the way I want to be seen or approved of, or I don’t. And I just, I really reach to that conclusion that I know deep down they love me, but I also know that that love is clouded by their need to have a perfect image, because that’s what it boils down to. It’s the image. In a lot of cultures, their image is more important to them than the happiness of their own child. Yeah, that’s the bottom line in my situation. Here is that yes, they love me, but their image is more important.

Kevin Anthony 45:50
Yeah, that’s a little sad and unfortunate, and we do see that from time to time that people feel the need to hold on to their construct, their belief, whatever it is, so strongly that they will actually sacrifice a lifetime of a relationship with somebody they supposedly love and care about. It’s it’s it’s sad, and at the same time, it’s also their choice in their path, right? So, you know, you’re doing the best you can with that, and you know, they got to live. They got to live their life and what they believe is true. So I think we covered pretty well, sort of where you’ve been, what your struggles were, what the path was, and I think you gave some really fantastic advice for anybody that’s, you know, in a similar place, on how to sort of navigate that and move through it. So I think we really accomplished our goal with that. I do want to come back to something I said before we took the break, though, which is I’m wondering.

Kevin Anthony 46:53
Right here, you are a young woman. You’re recently divorced. You’re in your 20s. You finally feel like you have sexual freedom, and now you’ve got this time to go and explore. I mean, obviously, if you want to tell us any fun stories, you’re welcome to. But what I’m most interested in is what some of the things that you learned along the way. So, like, think of it in terms of this: you have somebody young who’s feeling the same, you know, pressure that you are feeling, who has the same desire to want to go out and explore? What are some of the things that maybe you could share with them that would help them maybe avoid some mistakes that you made, or, you know, learn something without having to go through it? Like, what advice would you have for them as a result of you going on this self-exploration path around your sexuality?

Rania 47:45
So, when it comes to exploring my sexuality in my 20s and my 30s and then onwards, I don’t think I allowed all of it, as the baggage that comes from my culture and religious beliefs affects me because I broke through it early on, so there were no limitations there for me. Now the only thing I have to-I don’t want to call it advice- but sometimes when we are forbidden from doing something, we go to the extreme, and when we go to the extreme, the only person we hurt is ourselves. You may think that opposing is almost like you’re getting back at everyone who told you you can’t do this, but really you’re hurting yourself. So, if there’s anything I want to say is that during that time, I learned that I needed to find the balance between breaking free and being able to do whatever I wanted now because no one can tell me what to do, right?

Rania 49:03
And then bringing it back to me, what’s best for me, and to remove those influences from making the decisions of today in my life. And I think if I were to sum it up, that’s exactly what it boiled down to: for a while I was on a pendulum back and forth, right? I’m rebelling, yes, and like, yeah, I’m gonna do whatever I want. But there was, I was, I was coming back to, okay, will my parents be okay with this? Will they cut me off again if I do this? So I was, and again, there’s no right or wrong in it. It’s just what I lived through. Maybe some other girls will go through that. Other boys may even go through that. I don’t know, depending on the circumstance. But whatever the situation is. Whatever the dynamic may be between family relationships, is think about yourself first. The actions that you are taking, is it hurting you?

Rania 50:11
And many times we justify it, and we say no, it’s not, because we’re being stubborn, right? So it’s being honest with yourself. And you know what? When you’re in your 20s, really. You’re learning. There’s so much, or you don’t know. I mean, I can say this now because I am in my late 40s. But if you were to talk to me in my 20s, I would have told you that. Yeah, I know exactly what I’m doing. Now, 20 years later, I’m telling you, no, I didn’t. I thought I knew. I thought I was now the adult, experienced, and I know this, and I know that. But no, I was just figuring out who I was, and it’s very important not to make serious decisions, especially when it comes to marriage. Please, please, please, if there’s anything you’re getting out of this, it’s don’t jump into a marriage. Go live with the person. Go just date them for a long time. Get to know someone; don’t just jump into something that will be very hard later on to come out. So hopefully that answers what you were looking for.

Kevin Anthony 51:10
Yeah, I mean, really, I just was curious, you know, if you had some advice for people that would help them maybe avoid some mistakes, and that’s exactly what you did is, you know, to you’re basically telling them to, even though you may think you know what you’re doing, realize that you’re still young, you’re still learning, and you know, don’t rush into hasty decisions that might have you know potential negative repercussions down the road, and just do as best you can because you know you’re young and there’s a lot you don’t know. But as best you can, try to make good decisions that are in your own best interest. And I would say maybe one other thing you shared was don’t do some of these things just to spite the people who told you you couldn’t.

Rania 51:58
Yes, and there is one more thing I do want to add: when it comes to sex itself, your actual sexual exploration, it’s hard. It’s hard when you have so many opposing views, and in a way you second-guess yourself, and you think that you are wrong, and everybody else around you is right because you’re outnumbered. It feels that way, especially when it’s in a particular culture, right? For example, I mentioned my Arabic culture. Almost every Arabic person that you are going to talk to is going to tell you that sex without marriage is wrong. So if I were to listen to that, I wouldn’t be living my life. I would be living according to what everybody else thinks is right. But just because a whole culture thinks that that’s wrong doesn’t make that belief right for you.

Kevin Anthony 53:02
Indeed.

Rania 53:03
You could be born into that culture. You could be born into that religion, but it’s not resonating. It’s not aligning with you. Something inside you is feeling, but but but but you have all these questions. That’s what I want to add.

Kevin Anthony 53:20
Yeah, and I totally agree. You know, if we’ve learned anything since 2020, it’s that the prevailing ideas are not always right. There were thank

Rania 53:32
You for saying that.

Kevin Anthony 53:34
There, the people who did not go along with the narrative of 2020 and beyond withstood an immense amount of pressure and ridicule and threats and everything else, and at the end of it, they turned out to be correct. So I think it’s just a great example of how, you know, we need to do exactly what you said and figure out what’s right for us because what other people are telling you is not always right for you.

Rania 54:09
And you don’t need anyone’s approval, Kevin. At the end of the day, you don’t need validation. You don’t need approval. You don’t need acceptance. We all think that we need those things, but we don’t. I don’t need my parents to accept and like what I’m doing. I don’t need them to say, “Oh, good girl. I don’t need that. I don’t need it. I don’t need it from society. I don’t need it from anybody. Because if I know that the decisions I’m taking for my life are for me, and again, I’m not hurting anyone else, then I have the absolute birthright, my birthright, to explore life because it’s my life to live, to explore and to make mistakes and to fall down and to stand back up because in that I will learn lessons and with those lessons. Who knows what I’m going to be doing in the next phase and in the next phase? Maybe it will put me in a position where I could now be sitting here as a podcast host, as a relationship coach, and helping people through it. If I hadn’t gone through these experiences, okay, maybe I would have gone to school and studied those things, but it would be out of theory.

Rania 55:21
But now I have theory and practical life. So when I’m helping my clients, or if I’m sitting here on a podcast episode and talking about it, it’s from lived experience, and it’s coming from the heart. And I’m not just sitting here talking about you should be doing this, or you must be doing that. No, I’m. I always say, what do you want? How does it feel for you? What is resonating and what is aligning and what isn’t? Question. If there’s one word I’m always going to say, I’ll say question. Where is this coming from? And is it true for me?

Kevin Anthony 56:03
Very, very powerful. I can already tell you that’s going to be one of the clips across social media because that is a really powerful message. And I completely agree with you. I myself have always been one of those people who always asked why, why, why, why. I want to know why. You’ve got to tell me why. You better justify it with some sort of answer. Don’t just tell me because that’s the way it is. Because that is not acceptable. But that’s also, I guess, sort of how I landed here doing what I do too, which is rather different than what most people do. So, Rania, first of all, I want to apologize for completely mispronouncing your name at the beginning of the show. It’s been a couple of weeks since we spoke on the pre-interview call, and I totally forgot it was pronounced Rania.

Rania 56:53
I forgive you. It happens to me all the time. That’s why I didn’t interrupt you. I’m like, it’s okay. Once he hears me, says my say my name, he will say it.

Kevin Anthony 57:01
Exactly. Thanks for not making a big deal of it. You know, I generally ask guests on the show how to pronounce it if I if I’m not sure, you know. But every once in a while, I’ll forget to ask beforehand, and then I’ll in the moment I’ll be like, “Oh crap! I gotta just I gotta say something. So I’ll do my best. And sometimes I mess it up. Almost nobody ever says anything, but every once in a while, somebody gets really offended by it. I’m like, I tried.

Rania 57:28
Forget it, but thank you for acknowledging that.

Kevin Anthony 57:31
You’re welcome. I also want to thank you for coming on the show and really sharing your story. And I felt what you shared was really powerful, and I hope that the people listening felt that as well. And I hope that they were able to really be inspired by it, because that was really my whole goal with this: to listen to your story and be inspired to go out there and just live your own life and what’s true for you.

Rania 58:00
Oh yes, thank you for that. And this would be perfect opportunity for those who have been listening or watching me talk about where this all came from and the process, as we said, to the Rania here now, the one that dedicated a whole series on her podcast, the Healing Train podcast with Rania about sex and relationships, episode after episode, openly talking about not just sex for the sake of talking about sex itself, but how it affects our relationships, even to the point of talking about BDSM. I mean, we’re talking about a girl who would say, ” Oh, can’t talk about sex, can’t have sex without marriage, and all that have to lie.

Rania 58:49
But yet, I have a show where I talk about it openly, unapologetically. Was I scared a little bit? Yes, I’m not gonna lie. You know, the first few episodes, I was like, “Oh my god, I’m doing this! I’m doing this! I’m talking about this! But you know, the more I recorded episodes with my guests, and I had amazing guests on the show. It’s just I felt like I am at the perfect time doing this right now, and the mission behind what I was doing is again to educate, to raise awareness, and to talk about subjects that are again taboo. And coming from a place where I know how it feels, it’s not out of theory; it’s out of lived experience. But yeah, the courage it took for me to record these episodes and have them out there for the world to watch and see, yeah, it was a little nerve-wracking, but I’m comfortable with it, and it’s part of me going through life once again. Just like my personal experiences that I’m living behind the camera, behind closed doors, you know, is the same thing with the podcast. I use my voice now. I use my voice.

Rania 1:00:00
And I speak for those women, for those girls, for those people who are in cultures and religions that are feeling stuck, helpless, maybe even second-guessing themselves, and wondering if there’s something wrong with them for wanting something different than what they are hearing other people saying, and the way other people are living. No, my dear, there is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you. You’re just being you, and you’re exploring who you really want to be. So I encourage you to do that. And if you want to go and listen to some of those episodes, I’m sure Kevin will have my links in there, and you can go and check them out. I hope, I hope, it helps you.

Kevin Anthony 1:00:45
I mean, it’s really a powerful transformation going from can’t talk about sex, can’t have sex before marriage to doing shows, public shows about topics as edgy as BDSM. I mean, I’ve always been able to talk about sex easily, and you know, it’s been an easy subject for me, which is kind of how I ended up where I am. But I will tell you that when my wife and I started this podcast, we were recording-I think I don’t know, like five or eight episodes ahead of time, like you do before you launch. You know, so you can have a bunch out there, so people can listen to more than one if they like you, you know that sort of thing, and I think it was-I can’t remember if it was the second episode or maybe it was within the first three episodes. My wife said, “I want to do an episode on prostate massage, and I want you to talk about your experience.

Kevin Anthony 1:01:36
And I’m like, even for me, I was like, “Wait, you want me to talk on the show about you sticking your finger in my butt. I’m like, am I really going to talk about this, right? So even for me, as somebody who’s always had an easy time talking about sex, even I was like, okay, all right, we’re going to talk about this on the air, right? So I say that because I just want people to understand what a big deal that is for you. You know, from where you had been to where you are now, being able to share that publicly, you know, on a podcast, it really is actually a big deal.

Rania 1:02:16
So, I feel just going through that series of sex and relationship-themed episodes helped me grow. I’m not the same person today as I was a few months ago when I was working on these episodes. I’m a different Rania just a few months ago. Yeah, and who knows where this is leading me as well with my work with my podcast. We all have visions, of course. We’re entrepreneurs, and we’re trying to figure out our way through. And currently, I’m in this transition where I started working in one direction, and then I switched to another direction. And since the beginning of this year, and we’re as we’re recording this, we’re in 2026. I’ve been going through a process of like, how may I best serve the public, the collective, right? And it feels good to take a step back and reset, because part of my work that I’m doing is based on my own transformation and my own growth too.

Rania 1:03:20
So because I am going through it myself, it is a very, very smart and good thing to do. To say, “Hey, okay, I want to switch things up. I want to change the direction. I want to create new programs. I want to serve a different type of niche or whatever it is, maybe in whatever work we do. So, yes, I am a relationship coach that began this journey by helping women who are in toxic relationships heal and uncover that they’re actually in an abusive relationship, or even find a way to put an exit plan to get out of the toxic relationship. But I’ve always been focused on the healing part of it, and I think that’s where my direction is: just going down the healing path. And now I know, after working in it for some time is that I can’t make anyone go on that journey of healing if they’re not ready, if they’re not committed, if they don’t want to do it themselves. You can’t make someone heal or go through the process of healing. Has to come from within, and I’ve been noticing that many people say that they want to, but they don’t want to do the work. They’re afraid, or it’s just that they think it’s too much to go through.

Rania 1:04:28
And we’re talking about relationships. We’re talking about even their feelings about their sexuality. We’re talking about their family dynamics. We’re talking about the relationship at work. Everything. It’s everything. Sex is a huge part of our lives, and that’s why it’s important to talk about. But it’s not the only part. There are many, many other areas that revolve around that. But who you are is the common denominator in all those areas of your life. So once you start to work on you, your self-worth, your setting of the bounds. Living authentically, then everything starts to kind of fall into place. You’ll have better relationships, healthier relationships, but mainly with yourself. And let me tell you, your sex life changes dramatically when you do that inner work. And I know some people are going to say, “Are you crazy, Annia? What does that have to do with this? Believe me, it does because you are comfortable in your own skin. You know what you want. You know what you don’t want. You know how to ask for something, and you know to say no to something that you don’t want. But for you to get there, for you to have the best sex experience in your life, whether it be your dating, marriage, whatever, is to do the inner work on you to go through the healing process of whatever it is that you’ve been carrying with you for all this time. Whatever stage of whatever life journey you’re on, it’s never too late to heal.

Kevin Anthony 1:05:58
That is absolutely true, and I appreciate you explaining to everybody where you’re at with your work. Can you tell them if they’re interested in working with you? Where they can find you?

Rania 1:06:10
Yes, the easiest way is to connect with me on Instagram, which is the handle R number 2 R Coaching. Instagram is the best way to reach me because you can DM me, you will see my podcasting, and you’ll also see some of my coaching stuff. And we’ll take it from there. And depending on where I am in my journey and what I’m serving and what programs I’m going on, you will come into my world. But just know that when you come into my world, you are ready to heal, or at least get to see what the work is about, yeah.

Kevin Anthony 1:06:41
Yes, well, Rania, thank you again for coming on the show and sharing your story so honestly and so authentically.

Rania 1:06:50
Thank you, Kevin, for having me. I appreciate you giving me that space and to talk freely, openly, and authentically.

Kevin Anthony 1:06:56
You’re welcome. All right, everybody, that’s all the time I have for this episode, and I will see you next week. I hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe, leave me a review, and share it with your friends. And for more free exclusive content, join me in the Passion Vault at https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. Thanks for listening, and remember, as Celine used to say, you’re amazing!