Online Dating Algorithm Hacks

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man, woman, single, or couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts Kevin Anthony and Céline Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
Alright, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 192. And it’s titled online dating algorithm hacks with OkCupid. Insider Melissa Hobley. Okay, so, we’ve had dating experts on the show before, however, they were, they’re basically people who have used the app who like figure out, you know, by using it, you know, okay, this is what seems to work, and this is what doesn’t work.

Kevin Anthony 0:55
And then they go out there and try to teach other people what they learned from using the apps. But today’s going to be different because we have somebody who actually is from one of the major apps so rather than people just kind of like figuring out, hey, if I do this, this seems to work.

Kevin Anthony 1:10
We are going to get the real deal inside information from a real insider about what works, what doesn’t work, what’s going on in the dating world? It’s actually we have some really fun questions. So you may learn how to do your online dating profile a little bit better. And you may learn some stuff that you had no idea about in the dating world that you probably should be aware of. Spoiler alert,

Céline Remy 1:39
I was telling Kevin, I was like, we need to ask questions about catfishing and ghosting. And he’s like, what’s catfishing you know?

Kevin Anthony 1:47
Ghosting I knew but catfishing I didn’t know. Don’t worry, we will get there later on in the episode.

Céline Remy 1:53
Oh, before we introduce today’s guest, let’s give a big shout-out to our sponsor’s power in mastery. So if you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed, then check out powerandmastery.com. It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men.

Céline Remy 2:09
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Céline Remy 2:20
Our guest today is Melissa Hobley. She’s the Chief matchmaker and marketer for OkCupid, one of the biggest and most successful dating apps in the world. She has appeared on today’s show several times sharing advice on love and connection in a digital era. And today, she is right here with us on the Love Lab podcast. So welcome, Melissa.

Melissa Hobley 2:41
Thank you so much. I’m so excited to chat with you guys. And yeah, I’m going to give all the dish. This will be fun from an insider.

Kevin Anthony 2:52
So let’s just go ahead and get started. Our first question is kind of like, well, it’s kind of simple. But we got to start somewhere, right?

Melissa Hobley 3:00
Gonna start somewhere.

Kevin Anthony 3:01
Yeah. Why should somebody be on a dating app? Right? Because we didn’t always have dating apps and people still found a way to date. Right? So but now we’ve got all this technology and the landscape has shifted. And so we’re just curious what you take us on? Like, why should people be here?

Melissa Hobley 3:21
Yeah. So and that’s, I think that’s a great question to start with. And you should be on a dating app because it’s an easier way to meet people. And it is the most popular way people are getting together. And that is for a Saturday night or Saturday night for the rest of your life. And the data on this is is amazing. The easiest way is to look at marriages, right?

Melissa Hobley 3:49
Because there’s no like the census doesn’t ask like, Hey, are you? Are you? Are you hooking up with someone you’re into? Like they don’t ask those questions. So marriage is easiest. I acknowledge like, not everyone’s looking for marriage. And by the way, we’re not OKCupid is not marriage or bust. That’s also why I love to share the insights because some apps are only marriage or their only hookup and we are all of it.

Melissa Hobley 4:10
So you know, I really got a good seat to see what’s going on. And so you know, the data is showing that 40 to 60% of marriages in the US are from a dating app, for LGBTQ relationships, it’s 70 to 80% are starting on a dating app. And, you know, I would partly evolve and I will keep this from being an anthropological sociological history lesson.

Melissa Hobley 4:35
But what partly evolved and created this need for dating apps was that we were not getting together in the traditional sense that we used to, and women were not becoming wives and moms at 1820 22. And so as women entered the workforce, we had the feminist movement and women were working, they were delaying these decisions that really helped drive this idea that people needed other ways to get together.

Melissa Hobley 5:02
And I also think of it this way guys like technology is helping you in every part of your life, it will help you find University, it will help you find a car, it will help you find a hotel when you go on the work conference or a trip with your girlfriends. It will help you order drinks or diapers or whatever it is. So why shouldn’t it help you find someone is another way to look at it.

Melissa Hobley 5:28
And that’s how the founders of OkCupid were Harvard grads who were shy, lovely humans, who had a really hard time meeting people, and they kind of had that philosophy, like, technology certainly helped me in all these areas of my life. It should help me find somebody.

Céline Remy 5:46
So there’s kind of a big jungle out there, right? Where I think the younger generation kind of knows their ways around when it comes to dating apps. And, and you know, neither Kevin nor I, are experts in that because we’re not dating, we’ve met before. So for us, it’s kind of over.

Céline Remy 6:06
But what about the older generation and kind of like, where do you start, like, because I know like some people like, Okay, I know if you want a one night set, and you go on Tinder. Some women are like, well, there’s no good pool of men on this particular app, or I go on that app for that.

Céline Remy 6:23
So is there a data on like, Hey, if you’re an older person, and older is even like just in your 40s? Because I think like, hey. Well, I just think it’s different, right? Oh, really? And then like we’ve all these apps to choose from, like, how do you narrow down?

Melissa Hobley 6:43
Right? How do you it’s totally overwhelming? And where do you start? And especially, it’s especially you’re exactly right thing, it’s actually even harder if you’re not 25 or 30. Because you and maybe you’re divorced, or maybe even out of the game for a while, whatever it is, right? And so you miss the explosion, right? And now it’s really interesting, the taboo and the stigma are absolutely gone.

Melissa Hobley 7:08
And that’s partly because when Tinder came on the scene, it exploded and you get on Tinder. Now when you’re 18, you go to college, or you just turn 18 You get on Tinder. And so you, you know, even I was talking to someone who’s in her early 20s. She’s like,

Melissa Hobley 7:20
What do you mean, there was a stigma? That’s like saying there’s a stigma on being on Facebook, or you couldn’t even comprehend that it used to be that if you met some 15 years ago, you met somebody on an online, because it wasn’t an app back then you would say, oh, you know, we met through friends and a friend is an algorithm and OkCupid.

Melissa Hobley 7:38
And you’re also right that not all apps are created equal. And dating apps are a little bit like bars or nightclubs you want to know, in your city and your area. What are the apps that people are on? I would love to say that OkCupid is great in every city in the world. But that’s not it’s disingenuous. It’s not.

Melissa Hobley 7:58
You know, that’s not actually true. So here’s what I tell people to do. I say, ask your friends. Go ask on Facebook, ask folks, you can be like, I’m asking for a friend who wants even if it’s not you, like, you know, I met what are what apps are people on these days, that’s a good way to get a read. Nowadays, people are on an average of three or four apps, but primarily using one or two. So a lot of people will be on Tinder and something else.

Melissa Hobley 8:27
And I say start with the free ones like OkCupid is free. So start on start on Tinder, you can start OKCupid there’s a lot out there. And some apps are definitely geared toward a more mature dater. OkCupid is 18 to 108. And we really are we’ve been around a while. So you know, we have folks that are younger folks, I used to say 80 to 88. And then someone told me that we had someone that met when they were 104. And so I had to like stretch it out.

Melissa Hobley 8:55
And, and it really comes down to has the app has been around a while. You know, an app like a match is also a nice app. It’s been around a long time OKCupid we’ve been around 20 years, we know how to do this. And we have been perfecting it year after year. If you start with one of the free ones. Get your friends with you or a friend to help you set up the profile. That’s the hardest part is right. It’s like when you fill up it’s when you update your resume.

Melissa Hobley 9:21
And haven’t done it in a while right? It’s so hard to talk about yourself. So get a friend with you get a margarita or a bottle of wine and have them help you fill that out. Don’t do this what a lot of people do and women are especially guilty of this is ah, I just want to be this before I do it. I just want to have a better job. I just want to be more settled. I just want to be skinnier, taller, shorter, more religious that just don’t do that.

Melissa Hobley 9:50
You know just get on there. Just find a couple of photos and get on there and then just start swiping and just get comfortable in it right the first time you used it. You know, I don’t know, Travelocity or Orbitz, it was probably a little bit awkward. And now you’re like, Oh, I got this. I’m booking the family trip, I know exactly what to do. And dating apps are like that, too. And so, you know, I, I, that’s, that’s my advice is just get started.

Melissa Hobley 10:16
And don’t, don’t tell yourself to wait, what’s also really interesting, especially right now, if you were single over COVID, that might have been really difficult. I’ve certainly talked to my friends and a lot of our daters. It was hard, right? You may be your city wasn’t locked down, maybe you weren’t near your family or your friends, you may not have, you didn’t have all those touchpoints.

Melissa Hobley 10:39
And, and it was tough to go through COVID Single and, and what’s happened is people are very motivated. So we have 10s, of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of people on OkCupid that have never online dated before, but they’re like, I, I don’t want to go through this. Again, alone, I want to find someone, I’m gonna like, I used to what I hear a lot of people say, Oh, well, I want this height, this income this car, but and they’re like, throwing some of that out the window, which also was the right thing to do, you can’t go in with this list of all the stuff that you want.

Melissa Hobley 11:13
And so it’s a really, really good time to put yourself out there. So don’t wait, you know, Touchwood, things are looking a little easier with COVID based on where you are in the world. And it’s easier to go get a drink or go bowling or, you know, meet up at that museum, right.

Céline Remy 11:32
I’m want to touch on Sorry, I have questions. I’m just excited about the photo parts. Because you know, and I know we’ve talked about this in another episode, but I want to have your fresh opinion today on that. Because I think sometimes there’s a big difference like some men, they will it and I feel like men do that more from what I’ve heard that they’ll put a photo that’s 15 years old, you know, and they’re like.

Céline Remy 11:54
Yeah, this is me how good I looked when I was at that age. And then the woman meets him. And she’s like, Well, wait, what happened between these two? And sometimes women will also hide behind like a branding photoshoot or like a super glamorous shot, where it’s like, like, where, where’s the Where do you stand like, what, yeah, that’s practice with

Melissa Hobley 12:13
those photos or you know what women do more than when it’s like these overly filtered photos, where they got these Instagram filters or some app, they’ve overly filtered the photo, and it’s, listens, I get it, it’s really hard to put yourself out there. So for also, you know, I’m one of the first time I was single in York City for 15 years, I get it, it’s, it’s, um, it is, it’s hard to put yourself out there.

Melissa Hobley 12:35
And so you’re tempted to use that photo where you will you feel like you looked away, they felt really good, or oh, this filter, you know, covered by some of this, or this, whatever. And it’s so tempting to do that, but don’t do it, do not do it. And the biggest reason is you’re gonna meet this person, you’re a drink, and they’re gonna be like, you know, when you don’t want the first, the first really meaningful experience to be one where they didn’t put their authentic self out there, right.

Melissa Hobley 13:09
And, again, I get it. This is also where like, the friend can come in if you feel like you don’t have some pictures that you don’t like. And by the way, everyone feels this way. So also just know, every single person is like, oh, I just don’t have photos. I like okay, just stop making excuses.

Melissa Hobley 13:23
There’s an amazing person out there for you, you go get your friend to take some photos that you like, you’re never going to, we have had models on our site who have said I hated every single one of my photos and, and so no one, no one loves them. Just get something that shows yourself and get it out there. And here’s a little tip on that.

Melissa Hobley 13:46
Photos With smiles like where you’re showing teeth like a real smile, not the like, the like blue set deal to cool like-minded and everybody know exactly what I’m talking about, especially ladies who do the nose, don’t do that the photos that get some of the most likes are like I’m showing teeth like literally can see your teeth. It’s an open-mouth smile. And like, I’m staring at having seen right now. And if I do this versus like, I have that, like I almost saw you both subconsciously lean in the tiny bit.

Melissa Hobley 14:17
And so you’re not just taking away the worries that we have, especially in the society of like, I have to be hot and sexy and fit and men and guys always want to be tall because I’m gonna as I want to you know, whatever. Just get rid of that. And be Think about someone you’d want to talk to at a bar. And if I have a smile on my face, you’re like, I got like, I’m like 30% there.

Melissa Hobley 14:41
So that’s, that’s how I encourage you to think about that stuff. And you can even put it in your profile. You know, I think this is really funny and I encourage people to use and I see it all the time is you know, you know the hardest part of setting up his profile was finding pictures that I feel like you know, I don’t look Easy, I guess theory, okay, we don’t make a joke about it boring, a librarian can make a little joke about it. And because, again, most people feel that way.

Kevin Anthony 15:11
You know, I like that the advice is to put pictures that are real, because one of the things that bother me the most, and I feel the same way when a woman wears too much makeup, right? You know, like, you go out on a date with a woman, and she looks amazing. And then, you know, whatever, if you’re lucky enough to wake up in the morning with her, and then all of a sudden you like, Whoa, this is a completely different person.

Kevin Anthony 15:36
Like, there’s something feels like a bait and switch there, you know, like, like, you just got screwed by a used car sounds. So Real, I always like the idea of real, like, I want to see who you really are, as best as I can from an online profile, right? That doesn’t mean you can’t wear some makeup and make yourself look good. But like, these, these apps that do all the filtering, we take Aeolus when you see what the person actually,

Melissa Hobley 16:04
you know, Kevin just brought to life, everyone’s worst fear. But listen, you know, I think you gotta you got to show yourself because you are going to meet them. And so, you know, be be be who you are. And if that’s not for them, it’s better to know that before you listen, we don’t have any of us have all this free time to go out on dates every single night.

Melissa Hobley 16:27
And by the way, that’s also another reason to download an app is do you want to go to the bars every night like it’s become hard in the way that our you know, civilization is set up to meet single people. And even when you do go out, I still love meeting people out in New York City. And that was how I dated so much but it’s harder nowadays.

Melissa Hobley 16:45
And you walk in and you’re kind of like, Oh, I wish I knew everyone in this bar that was single. I wish there was like, like a little like a sci-fi movie where there’s like a little thing that pops up, you know, oh, you’re seeing a lot like they’re single movie night red lights. Oh, I like that green light/red light. I love that.

Kevin Anthony 17:01
Colored armband that identifies your relationship status

Céline Remy 17:05
yellow you’re in a relationship with you open

Melissa Hobley 17:11
dating apps, say all that they’ll say open relationship or non-monogamous or poly or, or not, or looking for true love or single mom or I’m divorced or you know, and they, they make it a little more efficient to meet someone.

Melissa Hobley 17:29
And that sounds a little odd and romantic. But you know, what’s also romantic is not wasting as much time. Right? Not like feeling like you’re putting yourself out there all the time only to feel rejected.

Kevin Anthony 17:44
So. Alright, so we got to ask you this next question because it was something you mentioned in our pre-interview. We’re like, Oh, this is fascinating. Okay, so first of all, if people haven’t figured it out yet, from the conversation, you are indeed married, which means you’re not out in the dating world. However, you are on 27 dating sites, 27 dating sites. So this is important for listeners, right?

Kevin Anthony 18:09
Because not only do you work for a dating app, but you are literally on ever I don’t even know the word 27 like you asked me to name or I might be a name about seven maybe right 27 though. So what we want to know is first of all, why is that? And then tell us what your experience is like being on all these different ones. is

Melissa Hobley 18:33
so fascinating. It is fascinating. And yeah, OkCupid is global. We’re a popular app everywhere. From Berlin to Paris to Melbourne to Sydney, Detroit, la New York, San Francisco, Toronto, if there’s a major city, we’re in it. And I’m first among the apps is I need to know, what is the user experience design UX sleep, we call it in tech, what is the experience like?

Melissa Hobley 19:04
What is the branding link? What are the people like? What do I like about the experience? What do I not like about the experience? I have signed up on apps also as every possible data you can imagine. Young, old straight gay, non-binary, trans. Poly, you name it because I also want to know what are the pain points, right. What OkCupid is famous for being very friendly for communities and types of daters that other apps have really ignored like poly daters open relationships?

Melissa Hobley 19:45
We don’t turn we don’t shy away from that we and we also want to be really Affirmative. Whatever you’re looking for, that’s great. Other people are looking for that too. So I need to know what those spiritual experiences are like and I also need to know How are people engaging and courting around the world? You know, we’re one of the biggest apps in India.

Melissa Hobley 20:06
And it’s a fascinating, very humbling experience to be in a country of 1.4 billion people where dating is, is relatively new. This is a culture of arranged marriage. And just like in, in many, in many parts of the world, women are driving that change. So in India, every year, you have more women going to university, having careers they aren’t, they don’t have to get married, they have agency in their lives to do things.

Melissa Hobley 20:38
And so I need to understand that in India, there’s this really rich tension between women wanting to have agency in their own lives and make choices but also, you know, a love of family and tradition. And, and we don’t see that as much in us, right, we’re like, Fuck you, Mom and Dad, like, I don’t give a fuck what you want, I’m going to date and screw who I want to.

Melissa Hobley 21:03
And indeed, that’s certainly not the case, you know that those family bonds are very strong, all those things. So. So you know, we’ve tailored the app in India as an example, to be able to help women find if you’re working and you’re in tech, and you’re fucking killing it, you should be making, we should make it easier to find men that are going to support your career and enable you to delay having children.

Melissa Hobley 21:27
And that’s very, it’s almost controversial. It’s almost provocative, even in India’s biggest cities, so so it’s it. And so when I’m online in India, on OkCupid, or other apps, I feel I feel that I feel that tension, and I can, it helps me, it helps me consider more things on the product side, it helps me think about how do I protect her? How do I support her by the way I talk about women, in India for most dating apps, the male-female ratio is really imbalanced.

Melissa Hobley 22:04
And dating apps, almost everywhere are a little bit like bars, that the guy they’re much easier to get to show up than the women. So as a marketer, and as a matchmaker, I have to think about appealing to women more than I do men, you know, like, think like Ladies Night free, right? Like, the clubs, whatever. It’s like, Guys, you cannot come in, if you’re a big group of dudes, I need like, do you have chicks with you or not?

Melissa Hobley 22:25
You’re not getting it, it’s a little bit. It’s a little bit like that. So it’s really interesting. I do I also have my husband’s profile on apps. So I swipe as you know, I need to know what that experience is like. And, and it’s really interesting. And sometimes often I will have on my profile, I’m here for research, right? I never ever get to a point where I’m leading someone on.

Melissa Hobley 22:52
Someone takes me the time to write a lovely message I might write back sometimes I have like, Hey, I work at OkCupid, I want to know, I want to hear from you. What do you love about this? And what do you hate about it? And people are very happy to share that.

Melissa Hobley 23:03
And I and they also make them feel good. I think to know that someone who’s an executive at the company wants to really know like, what success is what can we keep doing better at I have? Well, there’s always stuff we’re working on as a dating app. And we’ve managed to be to stick around a long time, most dating apps fail, you rarely hear about an app that’s a startup that’s still around and one or two or five years, it’s incredibly expensive to keep data safe to keep out spam to keep out bots, it is the technology has to be so good.

Melissa Hobley 23:35
We’re so we need something that works quickly, and it’s beautiful and slick. And so all of those things are really, really expensive. But we’re really good at it. And so, you know, I consider it, you know, kind of a fun part of my job to be in all these apps swiping even though I’m married, I have two little kids. I haven’t dated in a bit.

Kevin Anthony 23:56
So there’s a couple of things I want to say about the first one is you what you’re talking about, about how India is different. And how the app shows up differently for them is something that may be a lot of people aren’t aware of that. Depending on where you live, the app might show up differently.

Kevin Anthony 24:13
So if somebody lives in one part of the world, they’re like, oh, that app is no good. It didn’t work for me or whatever. And you’re in a different part of the world, you might like it, it’s important to know that your experience might actually be different than somebody else’s experience. Because people probably aren’t aware that they’re tailoring the apps to the specific region in which you live.

Melissa Hobley 24:33
Yeah, yeah. And if you Yeah, totally. And I appreciate you noticing that and when you look if you look at the product, new architecture, that’s the same but you know, we’re quickly becoming one of those popular apps in Germany and we Okay, keep it famous because we asked you these questions and that powers the algorithm so you decide what you want the algorithm to be made up of?

Melissa Hobley 24:55
Is it that you know, is its views on religion is its views on politics? are social issues are you passionate about the environment and you want to make sure you’re at least seeing you want to see people that maybe are climate change deniers for example. Climate change is a big issue there. So you’ll see the architectures the same but how we engage with you and what those filters are. Change by country and that’s what’s really cool, right?

Melissa Hobley 25:23
For example, voting is really important that’s a really big deal breaker in the US. And it actually doesn’t matter. And by the way, we’re like, you know, we’re nonpartisan, but we if you people want someone that’s a voter that is like hot, it is not to men is not to women, maybe we don’t I don’t care if you agree with me on issues, but I like that’s my turn on is like we’re gonna debate and like, Okay, now I’m gonna rip your clothes off like that. But like so.

Melissa Hobley 25:47
So we have a voting filter, but we don’t have a voting filter in Australia because it’s compulsory. Like it doesn’t make any sense. So, so you know, that’s where things get different. And then also, you know, popularity changes. I’m from Indiana. Okay, Cupid is awesome. In Indianapolis, outside of Indianapolis, it’s a little bit harder. We’re not so we’re not Tinder, Tinder is big and like the most rural town in Texas, probably it is that big.

Melissa Hobley 26:12
And so it does, you do want to try different apps or you want to set your location to right now I’m, I’m about an hour and a half outside the city. If I set it to justice immediate area, I wouldn’t see many people. So I want to expand my, you know, you can set the like five miles, 20 miles, 30 miles, 100 miles, I would tell people Oh, well set your geography to further out. So you’re gonna, you know, you’re casting a wider net, there are more people you’re gonna see and what’s the half an hour drive, you know.

Céline Remy 26:44
So this is good advice and, and fascinating. And I want to come back into some of the things that you mentioned, will, I’m going to talk about some of the insider tips on how to die and we’ll talk more about staying safe and all of this. But before that, we want to give a quick break here and invite all of our listeners who are in a relationship already, and feel like they are stuck.

Céline Remy 27:08
And going through the daily motions and just not really having their heart in it or that their sex life just feels blah, door. And if that’s you and you feel ready, and you want to really bring the passion bag between the seat and thrive in the sink, tap, then Kevin and I would like to invite you to join our Platinum program, our highly sex power couple programs.

Céline Remy 27:34
If you give us 90 days, we will help you get there and some more. So go to kevinanthonycoaching.com/passion to learn more about our program.

Céline Remy 27:44
So, Melissa, I know you’ve got some good tips. And we really want to give our listeners some of these Insider tips like, hey, when is it best to go on your dating app? Like what is like, I mean, all of these people don’t speak about right? Like if you want to manage your time better, right?

Kevin Anthony 28:04
We are some tips for sure to make this experience better for people. So give us

Melissa Hobley 28:12
okay, let me give you my top tips. Okay. One tip put the time in. And I and I am still surprised by this. People will say all the time and you guys must hear this. I feel like I’ve heard this even on your podcast, but I just can’t find anyone. It’s so hard. It’s hard to be single. It’s hard and you’re like, okay, okay, tell me more about that. It is it’s fucking hard. What are you doing to meet someone?

Melissa Hobley 28:36
And then and then it’s crickets. Right like, it’s like and I blame Disney I blame Hollywood I think women are this is the conversation for another day with you too. But women are totally fucked and mind warped, that this prince is going to you know, show up and save them from the cab you know, or grab them as they’re about to fall in front of the subway.

Melissa Hobley 29:03
And that’s the end of the story. And that is not real life. We send again I see women do this more than men, women put time and energy into so many parts of life if you’re you know training for a marathon, they’re scheduled their training they’re on the runs going towards a doctorate or a master’s or furthering your education the job hustle the friends the family, your aunt, your nana, women put so much into so many parts of their lives and then you say what when you press someone what do you actually putting into your effort and energy to finding love or great sex whatever it is.

Melissa Hobley 29:39
And those answers are usually really lame. So if you’re not in a dating app, join a running club, a cooking club fi get where other single people are going to be but if you are in a dating app, but the time in because I think people do they’ll still show up and like nothing happened. You’re like well are you online? Are you messaging Are you liking Are you swiping?

Melissa Hobley 29:57
So I tell people We’ll try to do at least 10 minutes a day. If that’s hard for you, or you’re fumbling around Sundays, if you only get on any dating app, and this is true for all the apps, Sundays are always the busiest days. And you can say, Well, why does it matter because I send a message, and they’ll, they’ll see it when they see it.

Melissa Hobley 30:16
But there’s an immediacy, it’s kind of like, you know, you run into someone, and then you run into them again, like that day versus like three weeks later. So Sundays are the best day to do it. Also, a lot of apps have a feature that says, like, online now. So they’ll actually help you filter me like, Oh, these people actually they’re on the app, they’re messaging. Now you should talk to him. Because they’re here, they’re at the bar, they’re at the Digital bar.

Melissa Hobley 30:41
So put the time in do and on Sundays, send messages and likes, because on OkCupid, the more you swipe left or right, the more we figure out what you like, the more we tailor the algorithm. So we become better at knowing what you’re interested in when you engage with the app. Also, a lot of apps will reward you if you do this one thing, and that is added to your profile.

Melissa Hobley 31:11
Most people 70% of daters set it and forget it. So they’ll set up a profile and then they’ll never touch it. And like, again, you wouldn’t do that with your LinkedIn, if you’re looking for a job. You wouldn’t do that with your resume. If you’re looking for a job, right? You’re always we’re always updating things. And somewhere along the line, I think people figured they could again, I blame Disney like they think like, they’ll just break into your house and be hot and like perfect.

Melissa Hobley 31:33
And so you gotta like put that time in. And when it comes to the profile, here’s like, tip number, what are we on four or five? Here’s a quick one, too. And this is for women and for men. It’s really hard to make the first news, it’s much easier in a dating app. It’s so much I mean, can you imagine like, most people are horrified at the idea of walking up to a stranger at a bar and saying, Hey, what’s up, right?

Melissa Hobley 31:58
But imagine, if you were at a bar, and you saw someone wearing this band t-shirt of this obscure band, and like I can’t believe someone else knows that banned and you’d be like, Oh my god, I also love them. I was at that show, actually, that T-shirt. So. So where I’m going with this is to put those kinds of things you might have in common on your profile. If you don’t know what to say, just put a list, list stuff out.

Melissa Hobley 32:22
And guys need to see something to like, reach out to you about they don’t just write Hey, like, don’t just say, Hey, say, you know, and so you can put like, and this is I mean, I see this every day. This is like what I have in my app like trips, the best trips I’ve ever taken trips I can’t wait to take when travel is normal, or, you know, still on my bucket list books that have changed my life authors that have changed like albums that have changed my life, shows I’ve been enjoying during COVID,you know, just

Melissa Hobley 32:50
anything that is meaningful to you put that on there and put a bunch of them because then you’re really likely that someone’s like, oh my god, I’m also like, I love the stones. This is definitely their best album. Those are some of my favorite tips. A lot of people are not doing that. But that’s why you know, just these little adjustments. And, and you’ll see the benefits.

Melissa Hobley 33:13
And when you add to your profile, if every two weeks, you could add just one show you just loved or hated puts up you hate people love that. It’s like an easy thing to ask about the algorithm on OkCupid lights up. And I think that you’re a new data. And I will show you two more people as a reward.

Melissa Hobley 33:31
And because I think your new that you added just doesn’t have to be a picture every two weeks, just a little something or a book you just read that is hysterical or moving or made you cry or laugh or whatever. So I think that’s what you know, think of your profile is this like, you know, as it’s like living and breathing thing you’re updating. And you’ll you’ll see the rewards from that.

Kevin Anthony 33:52
I think that might be one of the biggest takeaways maybe from this whole episode. And I say that simply because I think you’re right. You know, we’ve talked to a lot of people who either worked with his clients or talked with his friends, we have a lot of friends in the dating world. I have never once heard anybody mentioned that. I’m not sure most people are aware.

Kevin Anthony 34:12
So basically, it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like your website, right? Google is crawling your website. And if your website doesn’t change for 10 years, Google’s like this website’s an old dead website, and who cares, right? Because it’s not alive. It’s not it’s not changing.

Kevin Anthony 34:27
And I don’t think people are aware that that’s what’s actually going on with the algorithms in dating sites because you’re right, basically, the only time they change it is when they get so frustrated. They’re like, this just isn’t working. I’ve got to do something different. Right? That’s the only time they change it.

Melissa Hobley 34:42
Yeah, yeah, that’s the only time and which is which is crazy. Because, again, like you’re, you’re trying to find someone and maybe it’s short term, maybe it’s a long term most you want to keep you’re looking for long-term, but you know, it doesn’t take that much time. It’s hard, emotionally. Do I think that’s why people get stuck there, but you’re much better off putting some stuff up on that profile?

Melissa Hobley 35:07
You know, I saw a profile recently, it was like, can’t wait for the final season of Game of Thrones. And I was like, wow, okay, you know, that was five years ago, four years ago, and you’re also sending a message as a single person, it tells me that you’re not that interested. Right? And maybe he is he’s just a little scared to update his profile. Maybe he’s not, it definitely doesn’t send a signal that you want. And so

Kevin Anthony 35:33
well, I think it speaks to something you said earlier, which is they’re not putting in the time. And that was another great point that I kind of just wanted to talk about, again, because this is something that we tell everybody when they’re in a committed relationship, right? It’s like they put the time in, at the beginning of the relationship in order to establish it. And they’re like, alright, that’s done great autopilot for 25 years, you know? And it’s like, no, that’s not how relationships Yeah, you guys must

Melissa Hobley 35:59
Is that a lot? Do you see that a lot in committed relationships will just stop trying? Yes.

Céline Remy 36:03
And that’s, that’s who we work with all the time. We show them how to figure things out again, like,

Kevin Anthony 36:09
make it work? Yeah, basically, what we teach them is like, you know, at the beginning of a relationship, they don’t have to try because the chemicals are doing it for them. So so now we’re teaching them how to do that. But without the chemicals,

Melissa Hobley 36:22
the chemicals? And do you find that so interesting? And it’s probably hard, because it’s a muscle that people haven’t used. And they, it’s hard for them to get that effort back out there. Yeah,

Kevin Anthony 36:32
you know, there’s, there’s a saying that, that Céline, and I say all the time, and it’s really pretty much true for everything that says, you’re either growing or you’re dying, right? So you’re either putting the energy and effort into it, to help it grow. Or if you’re not, it’s slowly dying and falling apart makes you think about a house, you don’t just build a house, and then don’t touch it. Right?

Kevin Anthony 36:53
If you do, then the termites come in, and then you know, this, and then it starts to fall apart. And it’s just like it literally, everything will die if you’re not doing something. So take that mentality and put it towards your online dating profile. And you’re just dating, you know, energy, I think is really important.

Kevin Anthony 37:13
People need to understand if you’re not actively putting the energy into maintaining the profile, updating the profile, reaching out to people trying to meet them trying to do that, then how well do you think this is gonna work? Yeah,

Melissa Hobley 37:27
yeah. 100% and that I, by the way, love your house analogy. I’m gonna steal that one. But yes, and, you know, even like a really, uh, one of my dearest friends, she’s gorgeous. She’s Ivy League graduate, she’s got a killer career. She’s, you know, she’s like, I’m just and this is not successful for me. And I was like, how many messages have you sent in the last three weeks?

Melissa Hobley 37:50
So what do you mean? Like? How many? How many guys if you like, send a note to you live in New York City? I know, you see lots of engineers like, Oh, I haven’t. I just said to myself, You mean to tell me there’s not a single profile that you have seen that you would not like? deem a potential? Like there’s some potentially something to find out more about?

Melissa Hobley 38:09
And she’s like, well, I Yeah, again, she didn’t have an answer to that, which meant she wasn’t taking the time to look at profiles. But this is another thing. Give, give those profiles, the respect. And the mindfulness that you want your own profile to receive. Women are just as guilty as men is this quick, swipe, barely look, and they’re making a snap decision on someone’s looks.

Melissa Hobley 38:34
And you need attraction and chemistry 1,000%. But you’re not even taking the time to look and read about them. You know, is shitty, and you’d feel really shitty if you saw someone being so dismissive of you. Now, you will see someone and immediately maybe No, there’s not going to be like an attraction there.

Melissa Hobley 38:55
And that’s okay. But that can’t be true for all of those profiles. So so. So slowing down, putting that time in now, then going to see you too, to figure out how to put the time in. Once you’re like in it feels like the magical recipe for a happy life. I think we solved it. Yeah.

Céline Remy 39:15
So let’s talk about catfishing. I really want to talk about Yeah, this is a good one. These came from a friend of ours. Exactly. So if you’re listening, we thank you. What’s the deal with catfishing? And maybe like, what is catfishing? Like? Then how can you protect yourself from it?

Melissa Hobley 39:34
Yes, that’s a really good question. So catfishing is when someone pretends to be someone else on a dating app. And it is. I want to say it’s so common, but it’s so interesting that MTV had a really popular show called catfish where they would, it was really I loved watching the show. They would actually like to find the person purporting to be someone else.

Melissa Hobley 40:01
And usually there was, you know, an interesting backstory there. And so the way that you can protect yourself as a couple of things one is to look for those more, there’s always warning signs early on. And what I mean by that is I, you know, if you’re, let’s say you’ve exchanged a couple of messages.

Melissa Hobley 40:17
And by the way, I say, don’t go more than two to three weeks, at the most messaging with someone before you get on the day. If you have, if someone messages you, and you’ve been going back and forth on OkCupid, and it’s been about two weeks, get on the fucking date, you’re not looking for a pen, pal.

Melissa Hobley 40:32
That is not what you’re here for, and make them and be like, hey, so should we grab a beer? And if, if they don’t, if they can’t meet up, and it keeps getting, you know, then you should just walk away from that there’s never a good reason for that.

Kevin Anthony 40:46
Yes. And you know, another different friend, not the one that brought this up to us. But she was on a dating site recently. And she got the well, I’m in Ukraine right now. He’s apparently in the military and American, but he happened to be in Ukraine. And so they couldn’t go on a date for like four to six weeks or something like that. Turns out, it was catfishing. But just to put that out there as an example, right, the excuses for why you can’t meet within that two weeks. Oh,

Melissa Hobley 41:15
I know. And can I’m so glad you said that. So here are the most popular ones. I’m in the military. There’s the internet. That is it. That is common. Like half of the online daters are in the military. So if they’re in the military, or I this is one that is underway, I work on an oil rig.

Melissa Hobley 41:33
And the internet is spotty. I’m like, what do they think you’re like Ben Affleck and Armageddon is like, proportionally, it must be like point oh, 1% of people in the world. They’re like on an oil rig. It’s like 10 people. So boy, you know, when they have no internet, they can’t be even if they can’t let say, you know, really, their life is crazy.

Melissa Hobley 41:54
They should be able to video, if they can’t video, you get the fuck out of dodge, there is a there is no good. There’s no good reason for that. And you should not allow yourself to be in this. Like, when you’re talking to someone, you’re starting to get invested and you have not videoed with them, or met them in person, you need to like

Kevin Anthony 42:13
I would say if their life is so crazy that they can’t do those things, then they don’t even have time for a relationship. So move on.

Melissa Hobley 42:21
And they’re probably again, we there are a few. Yeah, we do the best that we can. But also I also say this if someone, if you find out that someone is not who they are you people are always too embarrassed, and we can’t do and if you don’t tell us or tell the dating app that you’re on, that you were catfished we can’t shut them down we are so we take that shit.

Melissa Hobley 42:45
So seriously. And when someone tells us that we, we, you know, we will look into it, we will we will, we will lock it down. So make sure you also tell the app if you know someone asks you for a gift card or it’s like a sob story, obviously, that’s a red flag, but you shouldn’t ever, ever

Kevin Anthony 43:00
no money is a pretty big read.

Melissa Hobley 43:03
And here’s the last thing too if they are not meeting up with you, and they are not videoing, and they’re taking the chat off of OkCupid really quick, whenever someone takes the chat off of the dating app very, very quickly, that’s a red flag.

Melissa Hobley 43:18
Because we have it’s all automatic to look out for certain phrases or whatever or gift card if we see that magically, we’re like, our systems light up. And we’re like, so we don’t like what’s happening here. And so now it’s one of these like, hey, I want to like ask you to dinner, can I get your number, you know, but if they go to WhatsApp, and they still are not meeting you seeing you videoing? You

Kevin Anthony 43:42
see that’s a huge tip though, right there. Because for what we hear from people that we talk to is you know, the line goes something like this, oh my God, I know you’re the one I don’t need to be on this dating app anymore. Let’s immediately transition out of here to something else. That is a huge red flag. You’re right because people don’t realize that your messaging platforms are actually scanning the messages and looking for key phrases to identify exactly this kind of behavior. People

Melissa Hobley 44:10
say Yeah, whenever we see that, like we, we, we look for that shit and we also you know, someone reports or complains about something and we can go in and see it when we like, we shut it down. We block your IP, we’ll block we register your cell phone number like we you know, we have really sophisticated things on the backend to kick those people out.

Melissa Hobley 44:30
Let people know right away to support law enforcement where we need to. Again, it’s not terribly common, but those people are, you know, it is possible it does happen. You hear about it all the time. We all just watched Tinder swindler.

Melissa Hobley 44:45
That was a different form of that was not catfishing that was that was something else entirely but and most people are not there for that but yeah if you the biggest thing is if they’re not meeting up with your video you right away usually You should get dune there is no good excuse for that you should get out.

Céline Remy 45:04
I like the fact too because one of our friends, she’s a really beautiful woman and she had some men thinking she was catfishing because she’s really beautiful and like she can be real, right? And I love what you’re sharing, Melissa is that really if you’re not sure like literally messaged them, and get on a video and then you can see is the photo matching the video,

Céline Remy 45:23
like the first one that’s here, you know, so then you don’t have to judge somebody just on the photo or thinking, Oh, they’re too beautiful to be true. So that must be catfishing. Me

Melissa Hobley 45:31
FaceTime. And you know what that does happen? In fact, I happen to one have a really good friend of mine, she’s stunning. And like, you know, blonde, and 510. And just whatever. And guys kept reporting her as catfishing. And, and obviously, it wasn’t. So yeah, sometimes that goes the wrong way.

Kevin Anthony 45:53
It’s funny reminds me of a song lyric, it says, God helps you if you are an ugly girl, but pretty is also your doom, because everybody harbors a secret hatred for the prettiest girl in the room. It’s like, it’s like that idea of, you know, obviously, everybody knows the challenges of maybe not being you know, supermodel in the looks.

Kevin Anthony 46:15
But a lot of people don’t think about the challenges on a dating site that the other end of the spectrum gets the fact that nobody thinks you’re real, they all think that you’re catfishing or, or the people that are like, I don’t even gonna bother she’s out of my league, or that kind of stuff. This is an interesting point,

Melissa Hobley 46:28
it’s a really interesting one that I say to you is if you if you’re like, oh my gosh, that person is so I’m so attracted I’m so whatever, that that’s great. But a lot of people also might think that and so you know, so I just encourage people to have an open mind, and, and give people a chance give people a shot.

Melissa Hobley 46:49
You may not, you may be really surprised at what you’re attracted to who you’re compatible with just and that’s the beautiful thing about dating apps, too, is able to do that in your pajamas on your couch. Right? If you’re a single parent, you can be going out every night, and being on a dating app enables you to do that. And by the way, that’s one of the real positives, there was a study out of a university in the UK, and I’m blanking on the name, but it showed an unprecedented spike in interracial marriages.

Melissa Hobley 47:20
And that coincided with tenders arrival on the dating scene, which grew, which grew, every dating app grew when Tinder grew and 10 years of my family, so I’m their sister, their sister brand. And so there’s a beauty in what dating apps have done, which is encourage us to to consider people that may not be someone that we dated, or may have a different background or ethnicity or race or religion.

Melissa Hobley 47:47
And that’s not how we dated and made it until technology came on the scene. So I just think there’s a lot of beauty in that I just love that we’re getting together with people that perhaps we wouldn’t have before wouldn’t have been exposed to before or even our brains and our minds weren’t, you know, weren’t aware of two of the main ingredients of attraction that we know from science is similarity and familiar familiarity.

Melissa Hobley 48:16
And many of us grew up in segregated parts of the world where you’re not. And if you grew up in Brooklyn, you’re fucking golden. You’re you know, you’re immersed in tons of cultures and ethnicities and religions, but not in most of us are not growing up in New York City or San Francisco or Melbourne, Australia. And so, you know, it’s one of the, for all this the shade and the heat the dating apps. Yeah, that’s, that’s a really beautiful aspect to internet dating.

Kevin Anthony 48:43
And that was the point that I was gonna bring up is it if you’re not living, like, if you do live in or it’s at least close to a major city, or like, you know, we’re not really in a major city, but we’re, we’re in Southern California. I mean, enough said, Right. You’ve seen all the TV shows. The point is, is if you live in those areas, you’re in a bubble, right?

Kevin Anthony 49:02
You’re in a bubble because you’re exposed to all of these different cultures, as you said, and so you just think that’s normal, but people that live in those bubbles forget what it’s like outside of those major areas where like, where I grew up. I mean, I only grew up maybe an ounce an hour outside of New York City, but I was in the burbs, and seriously, everybody was just like me.

Kevin Anthony 49:23
You were basically everyone’s just like you were all white. You were either Italian or you were Jewish like that. That was it. That was your dating pool, right? I didn’t know somebody outside of that for years until I moved away and went to other places.

Melissa Hobley 49:39
Yeah, it isn’t. Wait, where did you grow up? Where?

Kevin Anthony 49:42
So I grew up in New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah, literally, we made it like two miles from my house. You were at the beach and you could look at Manhattan. So just on the other side of the bay.

Melissa Hobley 49:53
Yeah, got it. Got it. But yes, you weren’t and that’s most parts of the world, Indiana was, you know, pretty similar except that even less interesting. And, and, and, and, you know, that’s why we work with a brilliant social psychologist, Dr. Sarah contrasts and OKCupid to help us understand why are we attracted were attracted to and, and she helps us like understand some of those drivers we know from academic literature and research.

Melissa Hobley 50:24
And and and think about it right the way that our parents got together may have been through church or through the temple or family friends and your family friends why because you live near each other, or maybe we’re both farmers or you both, again, winter, you know, and those those those things, that the structure of how our communities exist are very different today. And so, you know, being exposed to other folks is is is it’s just really, it’s just really beautiful and really interesting.

Kevin Anthony 51:00
So, okay, so this is a fascinating conversation, and I have a whole bunch more questions where there’s no way we’re gonna get to them. But we’ve got two last questions that I do want to get to. I wanted to ask because this is something that comes up a lot with clients that I coach seems I don’t know, it probably happens, I coach.

Kevin Anthony 51:18
Unless we’re working together with a couple I’m coaching primarily men. So this is something that I hear from men a lot. So it’s just something that I wanted maybe you to touch on, which is ghosting, I get a lot of clients who are in the dating complaining about ghosting and it’s like, they want to know what did they do about it? Is there anything about it?

Melissa Hobley 51:37
It’s so ghosting is tough, right? And you know what, there’s not a whole lot you can do about it. I say one lookout for those warning signs early on, right? Like I just had a friend of mine say she was ghosted, and I was like, Yeah, but can I be can we like to speak honestly, like, because you’re we’re good friends, and I can, I’m like, he canceled on you twice. He barely confirmed, like the signs were there that this was someone who was way more likely to flake or to ghost.

Melissa Hobley 52:11
I also, you know, I remember I was dating this guy. And I was smitten, I liked him so much. And he said to me, and we were friends first. And he said to me, listen, like that thing is, it’s just not here. And I so wish that it was. And I just but I won’t accept that we’re not friends, I just actually won’t accept that. Like, I want to be friends. We were friends before this. I know, we can be friends after this.

Melissa Hobley 52:40
And it was such a great conversation. And we’re still friends 10 years later. And so I encourage you also to look at your own behavior. A lot of people that are like, Oh, everyone’s ghosting me have those conversations too. Because when he had that conversation with me, it gave me the kind of like, the language, the experience, the muscle a little bit to then have my own conversations with people. So then I had an easier time when I met someone.

Melissa Hobley 53:04
And, and maybe that spark wasn’t there and saying, you’re just awesome. I just think that you’re great. I and I wish that that spark was it. I wish that thing was there. And it’s not. And I just want to tell you, because I think you’re fucking great. And I didn’t want to like I don’t want to Ghost. And so have the conversation in life. Look for those messages. And also say to them, you know, I think it’s really hot.

Melissa Hobley 53:28
By the way, when people say all this, and I haven’t heard from you, I really had a great time. I’m guessing like maybe there’s either a lot going on for you. You’re feeling it, and it’s just totally cool. Like, maybe I’ll see you around. So you can kind of see that and then expect them to say yeah, hey, thanks for saying that, you know, you made like, I really appreciate that. And you were great. I had such a great time. And like, I wish you all the best and I’ll see you around.

Céline Remy 53:53
Yeah, this is a good I love that to look at human behavior and nothing also the mistake people make and I see it both in men and women they get they go too much into their projection where they like, we already married no women, we tend to do that. It’s like you met the guy, you already have his last name, how your children are gonna look like, and all of that. And right.

Melissa Hobley 54:13
Oh my god.

Céline Remy 54:15
But I’ve done this.

Melissa Hobley 54:17
We’ve all done it. We’ve all done it.

Céline Remy 54:19
And so I think also sometimes people need to realize that, hey, just because it’s in the digital, like, things go fast, real fast, but don’t go too much into like, we already like married and having five kids like give yourself a chance and any other person chance to slow things down a little bit so that then you don’t fall on your butt so hard if they decide that you’re not the right match and that’s a good reminder.

Melissa Hobley 54:45
Exactly, yeah, just slow it down a little bit. Slow it down a little bit and maybe you know and then something maybe you’re coming on a little strong and you know they’ve they’ve gotten a little bit

Kevin Anthony 54:58
there. That’s something that I tend to see sometimes with the men, you know, so there’s

Melissa Hobley 55:03
the guys, they come on, like, yeah, yeah. Especially with,

Kevin Anthony 55:07
especially with the older ones, you know, like the ones that are like, I know, I really want to settle down, I know what I want. And it’s like, boom, and they, they’re just like, they’re all over it. And I think that sometimes they don’t realize it. That’s a bit intimidating. And she’s kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know,

Céline Remy 55:22
that five days ago?

Melissa Hobley 55:26
Yeah, that’s right. Because you also want it to feel like it’s based on who you really are. And so sometimes people come on so quick, we, we have the awareness, or you may be thinking like, Wait, what is this? They, they just want to be with someone, it’s actually isn’t about me? Or maybe it’s about me, but I’m a little. I’m not sure I’m there yet. Maybe I’m still figuring out taking things slow.

Melissa Hobley 55:51
So you know, Do you guys ever give this advice? By the way? Do you ever say like, Hey, if you’re starting to date, like, just, if you’re able to like to keep those options open or get on, you know, get another date, set up something else like I, it keeps you, you know, kind of can slow you down? And again, if you’ve got a lot going on, or maybe you’ve got a crazy work schedule, you can’t be going on like two dates a week. But is that advice you guys ever give? Well, like

Kevin Anthony 56:21
so that a little bit is some advice that I would definitely give to a guy is to not be so singularly focused like you, you, you find somebody on the app, you start talking with them, and all of a sudden, everything else goes out the window, and you’re like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Kevin Anthony 56:34
And it’s like, you haven’t even gotten to know this person yet. And when you move too fast, and you’re too singularly focused, you tend to overlook the warning signs that you gave. Yeah, slow it down, pay attention to the signs, you know, keep the other conversations open until as you get to know all of these people, you narrow it down more, and then you’re like, okay, all right, by then hopefully, you’ve gotten past the stage where they’re, they’re ghosting you if you’ve at least established enough intimacy where they would tell you rather than just disappear, hopefully, yes,

Melissa Hobley 57:06
that’s a really nice phrase you just put out there to establish enough intimacy for someone to say, Listen, you’re great. We had such a good time. And, you know, yeah.

Kevin Anthony 57:18
Because when you don’t have anything invested, it’s easy to just go, you’re like, whatever man here, right? Who cares? Once you once you’re invested a little bit like, am I you know, I’d really be a schmuck and asshole if I just disappeared. I have to say something. Right? So then you have, okay, look, here, here’s the deal.

Melissa Hobley 57:36
And do you feel like you see this, especially with your male patients, I feel like I still see both with folks on OkCupid. And guy friends that sometimes, and sometimes women too, but I feel like it’s more of a guy thing. They don’t want to be they’ll ghost because they’re, they just they can’t they don’t want to be the one that has that conversation. Like they find it even harder to say, Oh, you’re great, but I’m not.

Melissa Hobley 57:58
I’m not interested. I think like we had a good time. But this isn’t like a good fit. For me. I feel like I’ve seen that more from a guy they’re just scared of I don’t know, like, and then they inadvertently the woman is frustrated anyway, cuz she’s like, well, just, you know, you could just say, you know, we had some time together, like, say, hey, you know, just I don’t think this is like the right thing. Did you? Do you see that?

Kevin Anthony 58:22
Yeah, I would say in general, that it’s probably easier for women to be like, No, you know, just like, No, no, no, yeah, I think the guys are there. They’re a little bit more conscious of not wanting to be that guy or not wanting to hurt them.

Kevin Anthony 58:36
So they tend to find ways that are less confrontational to bow out, which actually are worse because you know, as a woman, you’re already feeling you already know something’s going on long before he even makes that move. Right? So you can already feel it’s happening and you’re like, what’s going on? What’s going on? He’s not saying anything. I don’t know.

Melissa Hobley 58:56
Yes, we’re afraid of confrontation. I think that’s a big thing. And actually, if you’re avoiding we potentially more hurt feelings by just saying just being upfront.

Kevin Anthony 59:08
It’s true in life, right? The longer you drag things out the worse it is for everyone. Just

Melissa Hobley 59:15
Just get it over with and it feels so good once you do that and there’s like clarity and throw a compliment in there to like, God you’re awesome. I just you’re really your health. You know, you’re great.  You know, I just don’t know if this is the right thing.

Kevin Anthony 59:35
rather long time, but it’s just so fascinating to keep going so I know Céline You should probably ask our last

Céline Remy 59:40
last juicy question, Melissa. What is your best sexual talent?

Melissa Hobley 59:44
Oh, ah, oh. I’m a great kisser. I’m great I know. It’s like, you know, the kids are into all the crazy shit today but I get it but I For me, like and, like intimacy, like starts with like that great case. And I remember my first date with my now-husband, and it was like a New York moment raining. It’s a West Village and like, the kiss was so good that I’m like, Okay, this, this is, this is gonna go somewhere.

Céline Remy 1:00:23
Oh, awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. So of course, our listeners, if you are in the dating world, get on the apps, whether it’s OkCupid or any other ones that are, you know, basically, the one working for you where you are, I know you said OkCupid is free, so they can just go on it and there’s nothing to lose.

Melissa Hobley 1:00:43
It’s free. But just for your listeners, if you hear this, and you really want to try OkCupid you can DM me on Twitter or Instagram and I will give you three months of OkCupid premium on me. That’s our $40 a month version. So again, it’s great free, but I’m happy to hook up the lovely listeners of this podcast for premium OKCupid on me just hit me up through my socials.

Céline Remy 1:01:08
Whoo, awesome. Thank you, Melissa. So make sure you check her out. We’ll have the links in the description below and get your free membership for three months.

Kevin Anthony 1:01:17
All right, well, thank you so much for being on the show. It was fascinating. I still have more questions, but that’s all we can do for this particular episode.

Melissa Hobley 1:01:27
You guys are awesome. I had this is the most fun conversation. Thank you so much. And yeah, I’m gonna come back on and we’re gonna like take more questions on your profile. I want to know that people like met someone through this.

Kevin Anthony 1:01:40
Yeah, I want to know how your husband feels about you flirting with all these men on 27 dating apps.

Melissa Hobley 1:01:48
Hilarious

Kevin Anthony 1:01:49
I think they probably get a little turned on and then they go have a little fun

Kevin Anthony 1:01:58
Alright, everybody, thank you again, Melissa, for coming on the show. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And we will see you next week. We hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 1:02:18
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at Célineremy.com/vault.  Thanks for listening. And remember, you’re amazing