12 Questions For Love: How To Improve Your Relationships By Asking Better Questions

Kevin Anthony 0:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, a safe and fun place to get real and learn about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and your relationships.

All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 294. And it’s titled 12 questions for love, how to improve your relationships by asking better questions. If you have been a listener of this show for any length of time, you know that Céline was and I am a huge proponent of good communication in a relationship. We’ve done so many episodes on different aspects of how do you have really good communication in relationship because you can have the attraction, you can have, you know, the great sex, you can have a lot of different things in your relationship. But if you aren’t communicating well, it’s not likely to be a smooth, harmonious and long lasting relationship. There’s just too many problems that creep in when you can’t communicate well. And asking questions. Really good questions is an essential part of that communication process.

And so I have a guest on today, if you’re watching this on YouTube, you can see him we are going to talk about a whole bunch of different things. So we’re going to talk about, you know, why is it important to ask good questions? How do you ask good questions like how do you formulate a good question, right? Are there any sort of guidelines for how this process goes? And then, of course, you know, in the title I mentioned, there are 12 questions for love. So we’re going to talk about what are those specific questions, because he’s kind of created a formula of questions to help you through this process. So there’s a ton to talk about today. I’ve actually been really excited to have this conversation. I have been so fortunate lately that I’ve been having really amazing people come on, and the conversations have been so powerful, and the feedback has been amazing. And I think that today’s show is going to be one of those. So I’m really excited about that.

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Okay, my guest today is Topaz Adizes. He is an Emmy Award-winning writer, director, and experienced design architect. He is an Edmund Hillary fellow and Sundance slash school stories of change fellow. His work has been selected to con Sundance IDFA and South by Southwest featured in New Yorker magazine, Vanity Fair and The New York Times. He’s garnered an Emmy for new approaches to document documentary and to World Press Photo awards for immersive storytelling, an interactive documentary. He is currently the founder and executive director of the Experience Design Studio, the skin deep Topaz studied philosophy at UC Berkeley and Oxford University. He speaks four languages, and currently lives in Mexico with his wife and two children. Welcome to the show, Topaz.

Topaz Adizes 4:17
Hey, Kevin, good to be here. Thank you so much.

Kevin Anthony 4:19
That is quite an impressive resume. What language would you like to have a show in today? I’m just kidding.

Topaz Adizes 4:27
Let’s stick to English because my other languages are not so polished.

Kevin Anthony 4:32
No worries. I’m just kidding.

All right. So what we’re talking about today is questions and communication and all of that. So I want to just start, you know, we always have to lay a little bit of groundwork here. So the questions are part of having a conversation. And what I’m curious about is why is it important to be able to have good conversations.

Topaz Adizes 4:58
Great question. I think even before that is why we what is what’s the experience that I’ve had, it gives me even any insight into the power of questions, and it comes from, you know, 10 years, we’re now in our 11th year of doing the end, which is a project that is what won the Emmy for new approaches documentary. And that is basically where we brought all kinds of people, all kinds of pairs on all kinds of relationships facing one another. And we gave them questions. We’ve been doing that for 10 years, over 10 years, over 1200 conversations. And we’ve learned my team and I have learned what works and what doesn’t work. And that’s basically what’s still in the book. But that’s basically the premise or the experience that I’ve seen and witnessed and acid, and that gives me my opinion that I want to share today. So that’s right, going,

Kevin Anthony 5:50
I just want to pause you, how did that get started? What was the impetus for starting that process?

Topaz Adizes 5:56
You know, I was a filmmaker making films going to festivals, and someone called me and said, Hey, topaz, let’s make a movie about you know, there’s something about you know, and he called it the skin, the skin deep. You know, why, why? And he asked me a question about whether we want to make a documentary about my good looking people do better than those who are not, which is kind of very superficial. And I said it will hold up. But as a filmmaker, if you have an investor, you’re like, Oh, this is a great opportunity. Let me let me come back to you. And I looked around at that time was 2013 and what was really interesting and continues to be interesting is the fact that the emotional experience of being human is shifting in the face in the lieu of all this technology that’s coming our way. Right?

We are connecting in different ways, because we have social media, because we have FaceTime and WhatsApp. And we can find different communities of different partners and different expressions of ourselves and find different information to explore ourselves all online. And so the emotional experience, what does love mean? What does intimacy, what does connection mean? What is loneliness mean? is shifting and changing because of the technology that we have available that’s shifting the way we’re relating to each other. And so that’s what really interested me.

And so that’s kind of was the impetus for me to launch the thing, that investor actually ended up not joining the journey, two days before we started, which was actually a blessing. And we continued on and the whole time. And the question is, how’s the emotional experience of being human shifted? And then out of that, came the end, which is this project, you know, it’s about the space between it’s about relationships. It’s about creating all vulnerable, honest conversations, and what can we learn from each other? And, yeah, that’s where it came from. Cool.

Kevin Anthony 7:45
Well, thanks for laying that foundation. Because you’re right, it is important for people to understand you know, why you’re here talking about this particular subject.

Topaz Adizes 7:55
So it’s good to feel like why is it important to ask questions is just simply because there is so much energy, there’s so there are so many nutrients, in the relationships in our lives, there’s so much that when we tap into those threads of connection, there’s so much vibrancy, there’s so much energy, now, they might be uncomfortable, it might be a lot of fun. But either way, there’s a lot to explore that will give you a greater sense of what it means to be alive, a more fulfilling sense of the relationship that you have. And also a more resilient one, if you know, weather, the storms or some discomfort. Yeah, I think I think oftentimes, our closest relationships are the ones we take for granted. And the ones yet who have the most, the greatest deal of payoff if we are going to explore it.

Kevin Anthony 8:44
Yeah, I completely agree. And isn’t that so ironic that the relationships that are most important to us, which are usually the ones that are closest to us, are often the ones that we will put the least the least effort into when it comes to things like communication? Because we take it for granted, right? We go, oh, well, they know me. And they know what I mean. Right? Like, we do stuff like that all the time. Oh, they already know this about me. They know what I mean, they get it right. And then yet what somebody that we don’t know, we’re like, Well, you know, I better make sure they understand me, right?

When it’s really actually more important to nurture those relationships close to you and make sure that they understand and not take it for granted. So yeah, I completely agree with what you said. So, if we understand why it’s important to have good conversations, I’m wondering, next, what are some of the requirements for having a good conversation? I know you outline that in the book, some of the sort of ground rules for like, how do you have a good quality conversation?

Topaz Adizes 9:48
There are really two things quite simple. The space, the intention, right, the space, the intention, why we’re here, and well-constructed questions. Those are really the two ingredients that you need. Yeah, that’s it.

Kevin Anthony 10:00
Okay, let’s talk about each one of those for a little minute.

Topaz Adizes 10:04
So what the space is simply, you know, if your partner comes to you, or someone comes to you and says, Why do you love me out of the blue? While you’re washing dishes, or doing the garden or whatnot, coming back home? You’re not wondering why you love them. You’re wondering why they’re asking you the question, what is the intention? What’s the context? If we play a card game, right? And you know, we’re playing a game of connection, I’m holding, in addition to my hand, and you randomly choose a question, why do you love me? Well, then the space has been created, you’re not wondering why the person is asking, the space has been created for permission to give and to receive. And so the space is simply creating the space for of intention of understanding of answering these questions such that permission can be given. So we can actually answer the question and go deeper. Right?

Kevin Anthony 10:53
Yeah. So simple as that sounds, I want to pause you for a moment. Yeah, because as a coach in this space, this is something where I see that people struggle with, in other words, they will do exactly what you just said, especially, you know, there’s something not right in the relationship. It’s been bugging her for, you know, X amount of time. And then in the middle of nowhere, it’ll be in the car ride on the way to your kid’s friend’s birthday party, or whatever it is, all of a sudden, boom, here it comes. Right. And there’s been no space created. There’s been no real intention set. And then you catch the person off guard, you sort of blindside them with this, you know, deep question, and then it’s like, what do I say? Right?

So the idea of taking the time to really create the space is actually very, very important. And that might mean write something along the lines of, hey, I’d really like to have conversation, can we schedule some time, and it might be a day or two or whatever in the future. But you’re, you’re intentionally setting aside that time, like, this is the time to block it off in your calendar, put your phone down, you know, we’re going to actually have a conversation here. So yeah, I agree setting that intention is huge.

Topaz Adizes 12:16
We should just be aware that there’s different rules in different spaces, both physically, but also emotion, right? I mean, you do certain things in the kitchen, you do different things in the living room, or the bedroom, or the bathroom. Right? You’re not going to shower in the kitchen, you’re not going to cook in the bathroom. Right. And so we have an understanding, oh, there’s certain behaviors, a certain route rules or certain guidelines that we have in certain spaces, but we can do the same thing won’t have an emotional conversation. And that gives us the freedom. Because we know there’s, Oh, there’s permission to have this kind of competition. If you come home, and you ask your partner, Hey, you did not ask you tell them why you love them. They’re not the flip side of what I say about asking questions, but you just tell them, let me tell you, I just want you to know why I love you so much. And you let them know, they’re actually not going to be able to really receive that because they don’t know where you’re coming from. It’s nice, it’s nice. But they’re also wondering, where’s this coming from?

Now, if we can make the practice of creating the space, whether, you know, usually we create the space because there’s a problem at hand, and you get that famous line says we got to talk, oh, we got to talk and it was like, Oh, wait, right, that means because there has been discomfort growing, there has been things unsaid, that have been festering and growing to the point that is so painful, that there the pain of not speaking about it is greater than not speaking therefore, with every conversation, we’re going to talk like, Oh, now better practices, let’s just once a week, have a touch base. Every evening, let’s ask ourselves a question or just create the space to watch the sunset and just talk that alleviates this building pressure that may happen.

And if it does build a habit, because sometimes you have kids, you have things, and you’re working on a trip, and you need to have that conversation to kind of alleviate the pressure and to attend to the to the weeds in the garden or the relationship, then let’s create the space for that, hey, well, let’s create the time, like you said, That’s why road trips sometimes are great, because you’re in the car. And you can listen to a podcast or the radio, but at some point, there’s nowhere to go. It’s just you to it’s just you guys. And that’s a wonderful space that you say, hey, you know what, let’s play a game or let’s have a conversation. Let’s ask a question. How do we create the space so that we can ask so that we can give each other permission to ask and receive? Ask questions and receive answers. Yeah, absolutely.

And we’re gonna just keep just bringing conscientiousness it doesn’t have to be lighting a candle incense, it can be but doesn’t have to be he just be intention and understanding. Hey, we’re gonna have a chat about this right now, which is different chat then what’s the shopping list? Well, we need to solve this problem right now because the house is on fire. We have to deal with this problem. There are different rules on how you behave in certain conversations. is, depending on what is and if you need to have an exploratory conversation, it’s one conversation if we need to get to a solution at the end of the conversation, it’s a slightly different kind of conversation.

Kevin Anthony 15:08
Yeah, I love that I love the nuance of, you know, certain types of conversations in certain places. And at certain times, that’s a great little sort of nuance to bring into it. And I love also the idea of, you know, like you mentioned, having a conversation in the car, you know, my, my wife and I, we used to all the time, like, when we go on road trips, we’d say, hey, let’s listen to whatever, you know, whether it’s like a certain kind of music or podcast, or whatever. And then we’d be like three hours in the car, and we’d realize we never even turn the stereo on. And that would happen literally every time we went somewhere. And to the point where we didn’t even bother saying, because we would just talk the entire time, we would just talk and we, you know, obviously lived together because we were married. But you know, we also worked together, and we both worked from home, we were around each other 24/7. And yet, still, we would get in the car. And we would talk for three hours straight.

Topaz Adizes 16:00
And one thing that brings up for me is because with the book, you know, one of the comments I’ve seen is, well, if you love each other, and you’re really connected, you don’t need questions, the flow, the conversation will flow on its own. And I don’t think that’s necessarily true, I think you can have a great deal of love and admiration for someone. But sometimes you’re in the same patterns of conversation, you think you know, this other person, this other person perfectly? Because you’ve been with them for 15 years, but you’ve changed yourself, they’ve changed?

How do you we ask each other questions that really reveal the evolution that we’re going through the change that we’re going through the nuances, we’re going through adequate the new space of exploration in a relationship that you’ve been in a long time, so not to confound, you know, the love you have for someone does not mean that you always are having a good conversation, you might not have a good conversation, but have a deep love for them. And maybe that’s a bridge you need to get. Right. Is and that’s kind of the offering I’m asking is are offering, not asking, but offering is out to ask really good, quite well-constructed questions,

Kevin Anthony 17:03
Yes, which we’re going to get to in a moment, for sure, that’s gonna be a really important part of this conversation. But I do want to come back to the fact that, that you’re right, just because you’re talking does not necessarily mean that what you’re talking about is deep, right? Because you could sit there for that three-hour car drive and just talk about nonsense, you know, like, you know, the latest pop culture, you know, crap, or TV shows or whatever, but you’re not really getting to the depth of who that person is. And I also liked the point that you brought up is that we are constantly changing, you know, one of the other things that my wife and I used to do, is at least once a year, we would sit down and do a check-in with, you know, how is the relationship going for you? Where are you at now? Right? Because we were aware of the fact that we are constantly changing.

But these are things that a lot of people don’t do, and should do. You know, my listeners know, of course, that Celine has passed away. And I’ve been dating somebody new recently. And the other night, she was over. And it was, you know, nighttime. And it’s like, there’s lots of things you could potentially do at night. And I said, What do you want to do? And she’s like, No, no, you know, I said, I got an idea. Let’s play a game. So I just grabbed her hand, I took her into the other room, we sat down on the couch, and I said, Here’s what the game is going to be. The game is, I’m going to tell you something that you don’t know about me. And then you’re going to tell me something, and we’re gonna go back and forth like that. Just stuff that I don’t know about you, right? It could be anything, could be something really simple, or some accomplishment you’ve had, or or whatever. This was a this was actually a game that my wife Céline had introduced into our relationship. And it’s an amazing way to get to know somebody, especially you know, when they’re new to you.

Topaz Adizes 18:59
Absolutely. And it’s beautiful. Right? There’s Well, after that conversation with her, did you feel closer to her? Did you feel more attracted to her? Did you feel it? What did you feel after that conversation? And what do you think she felt?

Kevin Anthony 19:15
Definitely closer for sure. I learned some new things. And, you know, this is somebody that I’ve known casually for many years, but it’s only recently that we’ve come together in a dating scenario. So obviously, there’s a lot of details in her life, and I have no idea about but I definitely felt closer because I was like, wow, I actually learned some really cool things about who you are as a person. You know, and, you know, a lot of the stuff that we shared was, you know, things from when we were much younger, right? That people even our good friends probably don’t know about this.

Topaz Adizes 19:49
So what I find really interesting is that even though the story may be the same, because sometimes stories change, but let’s just say the story is the same so she tells you a story about her childhood. You story about losing her dog or something, that story may stay the same. But in a year and a half from now two years, you have another you have a deeper relationship with this person, you’ve lived two years with her or something, you know, and you’ve seen her new level, when she tells you that story again, about whatever losing the dog, for instance, making this up. Because you’ve been with her for two years, because you’ve seen that what she’s been into and what she who she is, maybe you understand that story now in a different way than the first time you heard it, when you only knew each other for two months.

Kevin Anthony 20:32
Oh, that’s entirely possible. Yeah.

Topaz Adizes 20:34
Right. But because, like, oh, actually, now that I know you better and I know that you have maybe know when people leave, you get a bit anxiety, maybe it’s because you lost your dog when you were four years old. And when I first heard that story, you know, I didn’t fully understand how that like, played in the makeup of your character. Right. But now that I’ve seen you for two years, and how you relate to other people and family, we’ve had experiences together? Well, I guess my point is that, because just because you’ve heard a story once or an answer once doesn’t mean that the answer doesn’t change, even if the actual answer is exactly the same. Your understanding of that person has shifted because you’ve seen them in a different light. And we are built in our in our to survive to make things simple and comfortable. Right.

So therefore, we compartmentalize it, oh, I know this person, they we have like this, they’re like this data, and they’re doing the same thing to you. And what we miss out by that, and they, you know, we’re building ourselves to be comfortable and to survive. So we’re missing out on all this beautiful nuance of what does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to have these emotions that shift and change and, and we’re evolving, and we’re growing? And we’re having these temporal experiences that are, you know, enlarging our souls or not?

How do we share that, and when we share that we get a sense of what it means to be human, with a sense of humanity. And there’s a lot of energy in that. And just going back to your first question, why to have these conversations, because it reinvigorates your sense of being alive will reinvigorate your sense of the human. But we don’t go into that because maybe it’s uncomfortable, maybe because we want stability and comfort and safety. And yet, we’re missing the payoff. And by the way, we shouldn’t confound safety and discomfort, like safety and comfort. You can have safety and also discomfort. Oh, yeah. So they’re two separate things.

Kevin Anthony 22:22
Absolutely. That’s an interesting point that you bring up about, you know, it bringing us closer to our humanity. And unfortunate thing that I see happening throughout our culture these days is they’re intentionally trying to take us away from our humanity. They’re trying to make us more like machines than actual humans. And I think a practice like this is something that could actually sort of reengage us with our humanity, which is truly truly important. So that is an interesting point. So there were two things that were necessary. For good conversation. We covered the first one, let’s talk about the second one.

Topaz Adizes 23:05
Well-constructed Questions and Questions shape the answer, right? If they should just like a race course, shapes, the races, that’s you know, the cars are running or you’re running on? The question shapes the answer. You know, if I asked my kids, do you guys want to go to sleep now? or later? Then those are the two options now or later, they’re gonna be later for sure. But if I say, Are you want to sleep in the bed, you want to sleep in mom’s bed? And he wants to be in your own bed? The option is there going to sleep? The question is, when, which bet? So the question shapes the answer. And we are always asking ourselves questions all the time. You wake up in the morning, you have a thought, we don’t realize that thought is an answer to a question. So if we change the question, don’t focus on the answer. Focus on the question, change the question changes your opportunities, change the possibilities.

So in this context of a relationship, there are five things that my team and I have seen that really helped in constructing good questions when it comes to relationship. The first one is don’t make it binary. Why do you love me? Yes. Now? Did you have a good day? Yes. Now? Okay. There’s nothing is going to enter conversation quicker than yes or no. So asking the binary questions, doesn’t create the app the space, so it just say like, you know, do you love me? Yes. No. How do you love? What is my love for you? Like? What do you think my love feels like? You know, what do you think your love feels like to me? Asking questions that are open ended to create more possibilities for exploration. Invite someone in. Second one is asking questions that don’t have an agenda. You can feel it when someone asks you a question that maybe they know the answer to, or they’re setting you up like in a chess match, playing chess with you, they’re asking you a decoy question because they’re leaning in, and you could feel it.

You know, and so, when you ask a question, if you can mood and agenda, it’s much harder for that person to really engage with you openly, because they can feel it, it’s much harder to shake a hand that’s got a finger pointing at you than an open hand that’s offering its paw. So ask a question that’s really rooted in curiosity. Or if you do feel the judgment in your question that before you ask it, find the root of an angle to it. That’s curious. Notice, oh, you know what, I’m really angry about this thing that you did. And you’re thinking in your head, and you want to go, Hey, why’d you do that? Wait, shift it. Finally curious. You know, I’m feeling a bit of anxiety around that and hurt me. And I’m really curious why you did that. That is a different invitation than Why’d you do that. So come to questions with if you can’t you be aware of you have an agenda here and then tap into your curiosity, of knowledge, maybe the pain or discomfort or whatever, and acknowledge and then ask a curious question. That’s more of an offering that creates a space for them to step in.

Third one is make questions constructive, going back to how the question shapes the course. You know, if you ask the question, why do we invite so much, you get a list of why we fight so because your mind is built to protect you is built to deliver the answers whatever you ask it, the hearts built to connect you. So ask questions that are going to empower the heart and connection. So instead of saying, why do we fight so much, you can shift that into? What’s our biggest challenge right now? And what do you think it’s teaching us? Why do you think we’re having so many challenges this week? What’s the hidden lesson in it? Why are we having these? Why do we have this conflict? But what’s the hidden gift in it? What is it? Where’s the opportunity for us in this conflict? Right, so you’re already shaping the question there to be more constructive and empowering. That’s the power of the question, shaping the answer. Another one is connecting two ideas. So that’s those are the three, the fourth one will be connecting to ideas that don’t only come in contact with each other, how does conflict make us better? Usually, we see conflict about how the conflict becomes better than now your mind is racing to answer the question. Oh, okay. I want to find a way that conflict is making us better. Right? You know, how much is our effort to earn money costing us? Right? What’s what how much is we don’t really often asking questions that connect to different ideas, creates a space of oh, wait, we need to find the path there.

And there’s a lot of things to learn from that exploration. The flip side of that, or another way of asking is putting, asking questions that put each other one another in each other’s shoes. What was the last time you felt that I was disappointed in you? Okay, and why do you think I did? So that puts you in my shoes. Now you’re going to be looking at yourself like it wouldn’t action you did? And when was the last time Topaz felt disappointed? Okay. So putting each other in each other’s shoes is a great way to create empathy and understanding. Right? And then the last one, one of the biggest ones is all these questions, acknowledge the connection. There, they acknowledge and ask them. So oftentimes you ask questions. Hey, Kevin, what do you think about love? All right, if your new partner asks you what you think about love, and if the stranger on the street says, Hey, what you think about love, you probably answer that question in the same way. Irregardless, regardless of who’s asking, it’s not acknowledging the relationship of the conversation you’re in. Instead of I said, Hey, Kevin, how do you think we think about love differently? How do you think we think about love the same?

If I asked you that question, and you’re the person you’re dating us, and the stranger asked the question, you would answer those three questions differently, because three different people are asking you to you, and you have a different nature with each one of them. So shaping, asking a question that acknowledges the connection creates a lot more space of exploration versus what you think about love, then you’re just telling me is not acknowledging that we’re in a conversation here, we have a connection. Those are the five things that if those are really, if you can include some of them or all them really helps build powerful questions in the context of relationship.

Kevin Anthony 29:16
Yeah, that was absolutely huge. And thank you so much for sharing it. I, you know, I didn’t want to interrupt that because it was just so perfect the way that it was. I would suggest listeners, if you didn’t get all of that, you know, when the show is over, like go back and listen to it. Again. We’ll also give you an opportunity to find out where you can get the book written about this. So you can actually read it over and over again, where there’s far more detailed explanation. But if you could just master those five things, I guarantee you that your level of communication in your relationship and the depth of your connection would be exponentially better than it is now.

Topaz Adizes 30:00
The bottom line if you want to tagline is stop looking for answers, create better questions, focus all your energy on asking better questions. And the answer will then be obvious and more empowering. Yeah. And you don’t focus on the answer focus on the question.

Kevin Anthony 30:13
That’s, that is a sort of universal truth in all of life, right? Like, if you look in any area, right, you should be asking better questions. If we look at science, right? Science is supposed to ask really good questions. Instead, what we mostly get is, this is the answer we want. How do we reverse engineer to get to that, right, and which is mostly what we do these days. But the whole premise of the scientific method is to ask really good questions and see where they lead you. We could go on and on and on politics, same deal. There’s a predefined, you know, agenda, conclusion, and then we try to work backwards through it, right? Whereas the reality is, if we really want anything good out of this life or world, we just need to ask better questions. And let those questions lead us to the answer. And the exact same thing is true here in our relationships.

Topaz Adizes 31:05
Absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 31:06
Okay, so we know why it’s important to ask good questions. We know the two things that are required for that. And we also covered the five things, you know, to construct a good question. So then there’s a part to asking good questions or having this conversation that we haven’t talked about yet. And I want to come to that next. But I need to take a short break. And then we’ll come back and talk about that.

Are you a couple are your relationship and sex life where you want them to be? Are there changes you would like to make but just don’t know how maybe you think there’s nothing that can be done. If you’re not 100% happy with where your relationship or sex life is, then get help today and change your life. Go to KevinandCéline.com/sex-coaching-couples and schedule a strategy call with me today. So we can map out a strategy to get you where you want to be, so that you can have it all your way. That is KevinandCéline.com/sex-coaching-couple and book your strategy call today the link is in the description.

So before the ad, I mentioned, there was a piece that we hadn’t covered yet, which is really, really important to this process. So I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit about the importance of listening, because it’s one thing to ask a question. But what if the person on the other side isn’t really listening to you when you ask the question? Or what if you’re not really listening when they’re giving you the answer, right? So there’s this important piece of listening on both ends.

Topaz Adizes 32:43
I couldn’t agree more. And I call him the book Deep Listening. And it is something that I’ve seen, from incredible conversations on the end, you know, for the last 10 years, 1200 pairs, really seen, there’s a there’s a different thing that we drop into when we’re really feeling to listen, and what I call the deepest things like listening to your body. And it’s it’s, it’s bypassing the mind that first wants to respond, oftentimes, a lot of the time when conversations with our minds are talking to each other. And they’re built to protect not to connect, like I mentioned before. And so they’re you know, you’re, you have a conversation, you’re listening to someone and you’re already thinking about how am I going to respond? I’m going to win this argument, how am I going to make sure I smart, sound smart, or that I am that I’m right. You know what, and you’re not actually really taking in what you are being offered. Right? And that’s fine. But that’s how we operate in day-to-day life.

But with intimate relationships, what I suggest is tapping into the body. Because, as you know, I mean, the body is a repository of the software of our, of our consciousness. There are, you know, in our bodies, we can feel where the tension is, you could feel where the anxiety is, you could feel where the joy is at. So in conversation, checking off the body, breathe, listen, the body, what’s coming up, and bypass the inclination to respond to the head. Because the head is there, just like and one way is that often, like, look, we did the air we had blind dates is where it first came up for me. And we did a bunch of blind dates. And there was one question that I put in which I, which I got, and that was amazing got the same answer every time, regardless of you know, the background or the relationship, or there’s the gender expression, the answer was pretty much the same 95% of time. And the question was, why do you think I’m still single? And the answer was the same every time.

Because you’re still trying to figure yourself out. And I was just so blown away, like, Wait, how can all these different people who have different experiences, they’re all strangers talking to them? They all are saying the same answer. The question is, maybe this is a societal programming. This is what we are taught or what we see as kind of the reason why justification of why someone is single or not being single, you know, there’s no justification needed. So But what I’m saying is that that’s what we tell ourselves on free myself. Well, there is a lot in our conversations, a lot of scripts in our conversations that we are respond to another in kind of center programming mode. Right? We’re very simple examples like, how’s your day? Great. Now? What’s the weather like over there? Fine, good, bad. You know, what’s the weather like? That’s a set of programming questioning just to break the ice. Right? Listen to the body, drop in and respond from there create another space of really tapping into something that’s really going on, takes it to another level. You’re not just responding from the head, you respond from the heart, the heart, the body, to me the same thing. I don’t want to make these. I really want to separate actually the mind from the heart, because they’re, they’re connected. But what’s in service of what?

Kevin Anthony 35:51
Yeah, I mean, that is a huge piece. You know, it’s interesting, one of the thoughts that came up for me when I was listening to you talk about that was, this is something that I used to experience with my father a lot when I was younger. In other words, you know, he would ask those kinds of basic questions, oh, how was your day? How was that? You know, whatever. And I would answer those questions. But then I would get that same question maybe either later on, or something else, which started to clue me in that he wasn’t really listening to the answers. Right.

So eventually, I just stopped wanting to answer the questions. So then he would say, How’s the blah, blah, blah, whatever. And obviously, and I just basically would blow it off and not answer it. Because from my point of view, at that point, it was like, Why should I bother answering this question? You don’t listen to the answers anyway. And I know that because you keep asking me the same questions about things I already told you, you know. And so that actually created quite a strain in our relationship when I was younger.

Topaz Adizes 36:48
I’m sure you loved him. I’m sure you guys had a form of love. I’m not sure, maybe not. But there are oftentimes I’m having my own father, where we’re sitting there. And I know, I love my father dearly, and he loves me dearly. But we don’t know what questions to ask because we know the questions that we do ask, but not the same scripted kind of pattern conversation, he’s gonna try to solve my problem. Right? When there’s a pattern there, there’s a pattern relationships, how do we break the pattern? asking different questions? Here’s a really good question, ask, What’s something you really want me to know? What’s something you think I want you to know? See how that puts him in your shoes?

Now, the first, once you throw that question out, out of the blue is like, Wait, where’s this coming from? You say instead, he’s like, listen, I was reading a book, while this car game, or let’s do a little experiment, and ask each other different questions. Okay, so then you just created this space and intention where these kind of questions coming from? Then you ask this question that will teach each other shoes, it’s unexpected. The first response will generally be like, wait, what? Okay, let me think about that. And allow that space, right, because you’re asking a different question that we’re not normally asked.

And so allowing for that space, and then hopefully, that person is going to answer that. That breath, that pause app is their form of deeper listening, of listening the body of trying to the mind trying to find a new connection between two ideas that hasn’t been done before. And so there’s a lot of beauty in allowing for that to happen. Right? And there’s a big payoff. There’s a big picture, there’s a big dopamine payoff on the end of that answer. You ask that question, you create the space to get the answer. There’s a big payoff on the other side of that.

Kevin Anthony 38:36
Yeah, I like that idea of, you know, asking the different questions. Because, you know, if you’re asking the same questions all the time, you’re right, people just getting into patterns. And they’re these default responses that come to those answers. But if you ask them something that they don’t have a default response to, now they got to think about it. Right?

Topaz Adizes 38:55
I like to say like, they gotta feel about it. Yeah, they have to feel it, hopefully, that that’s what we’re talking about listening is feeling to listen, if you can tap into your body more, listen from there. And trust that the answers will come trust that, you know, we will resolve whatever resolve or we will, you know, you will come across new spaces in your relationship, if you feel through them, versus list of think through them.

Kevin Anthony 39:19
Well, that is a good point, too. Our minds can come up with all kinds of interesting justifications for the things that we say. And our bodies never lie. So yeah, it’s, it’s great to feel into it. I would say that for women, that’s probably pretty easy. That’s usually their default mode. They tend to feel a lot more than we do as men. So it’s kind of a more advanced skill for the men is like, how do we feel? One of the biggest things that I see with my male clients and that my wife used to see for many years that she would say this after almost every first session with a new male client today. Oh boy, he’s gonna be a tough one he’s really stuck in his head is just all up here in the mental bubble is super common. So that’s going to be a skill man that if you are not good at, you’re going to have to practice you’re going to have to work on getting sort of out of your analytical problem-solving mind and getting into the feeling more about what is it you really feel, especially when we’re talking about relationships.

Topaz Adizes 40:26
And what comes up for me there is I, if we make small distinctions, just like we might make small distinctions or questions, what makes small distinctions, it gives us other permissions and possibilities. So for me, I made it I made a distinction that way, I don’t say male or female, I see masculine or feminine energy, because then that gives you permission. If you’re a say a male, you’re like, oh, maybe you’re in you’re in, you know, maybe you’ve been raised to behave in a certain way as a male. But if you acknowledge the masculine energy, then there’s also spaces where you can be feminine energy. And same also for, say, women, like, they can be masculine in certain spaces, they can be feminine, certain spaces. And by just making that slight distinction for me, in my opinion, my experience is a little bit more permanent permission or weight to access different emotions, because I’m not equating it to my gender, which is much harder to shift and change than it is to the energy.

Kevin Anthony 41:25
That’s a valid point. And you know, on the show, we’ve talked so many so many times, we’ve done whole episodes on masculine and feminine energies and how they’re not necessarily tied to gender.

Topaz Adizes 41:37
I know, I’ve listened to them.

Kevin Anthony 41:39
That is a whole other thing. But yeah, just general, more generally speaking, I think people understood what I meant when I said, you know, us guys, but it could be somebody that is definitely more in their masculine energy, and not necessarily biologically male. So that is definitely possible. So, okay. I’m wondering if, through all the work that you’ve done with these questions, if there’s a particular area that you’ve seen, where people tend to go wrong, is there some common area where this process tends to sort of go off the tracks that you see regularly that maybe we could sort of upfront warn people about like, Hey, be careful about going off in this direction?

Topaz Adizes 42:26
What I’ve what I’ve seen a pattern, I’ve seen it that there’s usually one partner who wants to have a conversation, and another who’s a bit more apprehensive. Right? And, in general, I would say it’s the feminine energy that wants to have a conversation, the masculine is more reticent. However, what’s interesting is, once the conversation begins, and there’s a game set up, okay, you’re gonna ask each other these questions, and you don’t have to answer any question you don’t want. But you do have to ask each question. That’s an important rule. Once the master energy is in that space, they are like, okay, because they like challenge and they step into challenge, or the challenge is, we have to answer every question, we have to go deep or to do this.

So then they’re kind of more invested. Right? Well, so the feminine brings in, but what happens is that the more reticent the one that’s more reserved, or maybe he’s not, or more uncomfortable, or is greater fear, doesn’t see the payoff and having the conversation with the partner, that the partner who wants to have a conversation gets a bit angry, it’s like, well, a, you know, they’re not doing this, or they’re not doing it right, or they’re not going as deep as I liked them, or they’re not, you know, they’re giving short sentences instead of, you know, a long paragraphs of an answer. But it says, We have to let go, but to let go and accept what is and your partner, if they are in the space with you. Maybe they’re not as skilled at emotional articulation. That is what I’ve been calling emotion articulation, which is the ability to articulate your emotions different than intelligence, motion. Just, we’re not all practices somewhere, you know, we all have different love languages.

But when you bring your partner to the table to have this kind of experience, or any kind of experience, where you’re really exploring and having asking good questions, in a space that cultivates inquiry, except what where they’re at, don’t waste a lot of my directors when, you know, I train them to do the and they go, they do an ad and they call me after the first day and see topaz, it’s not working. They’re not having the conversations, no one’s crying, you know, we’re whole as they are, it is working. What’s not working is that you have a perceived notion of how it should be. And it’s not living up to how you think it should be. Get rid of that accept it as what is and is beautiful for what is.

Kevin Anthony 44:47
I want to add to that. So you know, if you’re the one that wants to have this conversation, keep in mind that this is a skill that’s going to be cultivated over time and it’s not a one conversation time like you know, Topaz As if we just have this conversation once it will fix everything, right? Like, that’s not what you’re saying at all. So it’s a conversation that you’re going to have many times over, you know, however long that you’re together, you’ll be, you know, asking each other questions, you know, all along the way, and you’ll get better at it as it goes. But this idea that, you know, you’ve got to answer all the questions, and you’ve got to go super deep, and you’ve got to, you know, do all these things right from the get go is, is really an unrealistic expectation, right. And if you put that pressure on it, you’re not likely to get the result you want.

Topaz Adizes 45:33
What’s more profound and important than actually answering it is simply sitting in the space of the question. The rule that we have is, you have to read every question out loud, but you don’t have to answer anything you don’t want. Because you can’t put people in a corner and then expect them to behave normally. If you put someone in the corner, they’re going to be defensive. And they’re not going to be if you create an open space where they can walk away. They don’t have to answer anything, they have a way out, they can be more expansive, they can be more present, they can be feel safer, even though it’s uncomfortable.

Kevin Anthony 46:03
Yeah, and I would say that probably over time, like if you actually do voice these questions at MIT, this isn’t obviously not true for everybody. But it’s definitely true for me, if you ask me these questions, even if I don’t answer them, in the context of that conversation, my brain is going to be thinking about those questions. Exactly. Until I come up with an answer. It could be days, it could be weeks, until the next time, my brain is gonna be thinking about it. But that means that when we sit down to have that next conversation, I now actually have something to share.

Topaz Adizes 46:36
You if you ask a question, say one of the questions in the book with your partner, and you’re sitting there, and you both decide you don’t want to answer, that’s fine. It’s not a problem at all. But what has happened is that you both ask the question in your head. Or you’ve asked it out loud, but then you’ve asked in your head, and then your head, your mind will give you maybe three answers. One is what do you what do you think they’re gonna say? What do you think it is? Right? What do you think they’re not going to say? And you’re already having the conversation head there, even though you both are not verbalizing it to each other.

So what I’m saying is key is that to ask a question, and to sit in the space of that together, already is creating the space for you to explore together is already created space for a more resilient relationship, even if it’s uncomfortable, because you’re right, maybe the next time you sit down what you’ve been thinking about, you’ve been feeling into it, and now you have more to share. Right? But this partner is other person now not to be romantic. This wherever you’re having the conversation, your dad, your brother, your best friend. They’re sitting in the space with you, Evan, runaway, they’re there. And maybe you’re not tickling the answer right now. But you’re sitting the experience of asking the question, which reinforces your connection to them? And then maybe the answers will come later. That’s fine.

Kevin Anthony 47:53
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we are getting very close to the end of the show. I got a couple more questions I want to ask you. I’m curious also, is there any sort of after care that you recommend, after you’ve had one of these conversations like, Okay, we’ve gone through whatever questions we’re gonna go through for this, is there anything that should be done, sort of close it out after care, that sort of thing?

Topaz Adizes 48:22
So, you know, so What’s the book about? The book is about teaching you how to ride the bike is teaching you because we don’t learn this in schools, we basically learn from modeling from our families, maybe from our friend groups, how to have conversations, that’s it. Unfortunately, I’ve been privy to seeing this in the space different than couples therapists, we have a therapist whose goal is guiding and holding space. This is two people having a conversation. And but two things I want to say is that if you’re going to play the end of the book, the question in the book, what I say is, don’t stop the conversation in the middle. If you have to, if you have to end the conversation and go to something else. Go to the last few questions, because the last few questions, help land the plane and wrap things up. So you’re not ending the meat conversation in the middle of a conflict. Right.

So when I think in terms of aftercare, what I think versus aftercare is just continual practice. Set the time once a week, once a month, just like you did with your way once a year where you had a baker’s that really were we at but have a continual practice a maintenance check. Because otherwise what happens is, these kinds of conversations or these kinds of conflicts will come up, because there’s so much pain, you cannot do anything else. Right? And then it becomes really difficult to have a conversation because there’s so much pain. Right? It was even hardest and it’s comfort. It’s just like, it’s just like exercise. You know, if I want to go climb Kilimanjaro tomorrow, well, the question if I just go do it, I’m gonna pull a hamstring. I’m gonna be exhausted. I won’t make it to the top.

But if I practice and I’ve been, you know, going on a short job holds for a month a year time. It’s like when you see a marathon, when you see it when I see marathon, I’m crying from seeing all these people who are in worst, looks like they’re worse shape than me. But they’re running a marathon. And I’m not. And what I know that they didn’t just wake up this morning and run the marathon. They’ve been practicing for six months, they’ve stretched the exercise, they’ve trained themselves, are we doing the same in our relationships? Right? If I want to go to a marathon tomorrow, my relationships have I’ve been training for the last six months. So the aftercare is suddenly we’re building up to a peak moment, what we’re doing is creating the base level of maintenance so that our relationships can be elevated. Absolutely,

Kevin Anthony 50:40
I, you know, I would add to this not really after care, but it’s sort of along those lines, which is, you know, making sure that when you’re triggered, that’s not the time to start the conversation. Right? So this whole idea of like, Have I been have I been prepping myself properly through the training and through the repetition, and then just also knowing that the time that you like, if you’re in trigger in that moment, that’s generally not the best time to start a conversation? So, you know, letting that letting that, you know, letting those emotions settle down, bringing yourself back into right relation, and then having a good conversation? There was a point that you made along the way that reminded me of that, and I just wanted to share that. Okay, so I had had my list of all 12 questions here. And I highlighted a couple of them that I wanted to talk about, but I was, I’m not surprised that we didn’t get there.

So I was just saying that I had the list of the 12 questions here, because I thought we would talk about a couple of might even highlighted a few of the ones. But we really don’t have time to go into that today. Do know that in the book, not only does it give you all of you know how to set this up, and how to do that, you know, how to form good questions and, and create the space and all of that it actually takes each one of these questions and explains more in depth, you know, what is actually like, why it’s important and all that kind of stuff. So you can find that in the book. Which is the perfect segue into tell people how they can find out more about you the and if you want to talk about the skin deep anything that you want the people to know about and and where they can find it.

Topaz Adizes 52:32
But thanks, Kevin, it’s been great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity to share about the work that my team and I’ve been doing. The book is available anywhere you want. It’s on. It’s a hardcover. It’s also an ebook and audiobook, it’s available everywhere. And the terms of seeing our work and the ad videos that we’ve been talking about. Just check out the skin deep.com. That’s where all of our products and experiences and then all the social media channels the skin deep, it’s pretty easy to find.

Kevin Anthony 52:58
Awesome. And those links are in the description so you can find them down there. Okay, one last question, which is a question I asked everybody on the show, since the whole episode is about asking questions. The question is, what is your best sexual talent? I got my sound effects so I can have the jepardy music playing. Doo doo doo doo.

Topaz Adizes 53:30
Sorry. I’m not sure if it’s a talent, but no, I don’t. I think I’m learning a lot about my erotic self. And I think one thing I’ve been learning is that I’ve only learned one way to make love with intense passion. You know, some sense, like in the beginning of relationship that’s like a superpower. And it’s wonderful. And it’s substantial. But then as the relationship evolves and changes as different sources of energy you want to draw from and I realized that I am my practice there. And so it’s interesting how, in certain phases, the relationship is a superpower. And then later on, it becomes a kind of blind spot or inability to explore other spaces. And so that’s kind of what I’m wrestling lately in my in my own erotic conceptual journey.

Kevin Anthony 54:33
Well, thank you. That was a very thoughtful answer. I really appreciated that. I think that you know, when it comes to that the superpower is being able to do that long term in a long relationship, right? That’s really the like, if you can figure out how to keep that going throughout the length of your relationship. That’s when it becomes a superpower because that’s when that’s when it takes effort. That’s when it takes some work. So I mean, Getting when those hormones are flowing, hot and heavy. That’s it’s not too difficult to do. But later on, it is.

So, you know, I also want to say that we it’s not one of your 12 questions at all. But we did sort of model there a little bit about how that practice works, right? asked an open ended question, right? You actually listened to it, you really thought about it, and you reflected back, something that was actually not a canned answer, something that was actually deep and thoughtful. And then we talked a little bit about that. So that’s kind of cool. How that worked is a little mini example, not intended at all. But it worked out perfectly.

So I hope that you all got some value out of this, the idea of being able to ask good questions, better questions, to have a framework from which to have these conversations, I think is extremely valuable in any relationship, of course, in your intimate relationship. But this model can work for other relationships to family members, children, whatever. And I just think it is super, super valuable. It’s why I really wanted to do this episode. And I hope that you as the listener, see the value in it as well. One last time, I’d like to thank you Topaz for coming on and sharing all that you’ve learned from the years you’ve been doing this.

Topaz Adizes 56:26
Thank you so much, Kevin. It’s been great to be here. Thank you.

Kevin Anthony 56:30
All right, everybody. That’s all the time that I have for this episode. And I will see you next week.

I hope you like this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with your friends. And for more free exclusive content. Join me in the passion bowl and Kevin and Céline dot com forward slash full. That’s Kevin and Céline dot com forward slash full. Thanks for listening. And remember, as Céline used to say you’re amazing!