The Love Lab Podcast Episode 347 Transcript

Kevin Anthony 0:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex, whether you’re a man or a woman, single or a couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex of your life.

Welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 347 and it is titled, why women are outgrowing their relationships and how men can rise to meet them. I was intrigued by this idea when I first spoke to today’s guest, because I was really curious what his take on this was, obviously, working with men and women. I have my own ideas of where I think people are at and what’s sort of happening in the general population, at least the population that I work with, but I’m really curious to hear his perspective on what’s happening out there. So we’re going to be talking about, and I’m going to have the guest explain much deeper about this.

But when we say outgrowing their relationships, what we’re really going to be talking about is people’s own development, their spiritual development, their personal development, where they’re at, and then how that’s affecting their relationship. Because one thing that tends to happen is that a person in a relationship starts for whatever reason, they pop awake and they decide it’s time to do some personal development work, and they start growing and changing while their partner stays the same, and that can cause a lot of challenges in relationships. And so we’re going to talk about that whole dynamic. What happens when that happens? How do we shift that? What are some of the problems? What are some of the benefits, all that kind of stuff? That’s what we’re going to get into today. And I’m kind of excited because I’m really curious to hear more about the guest’s perspective on this.

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Okay, my guest today is Scott Woehrer. He was the publisher and editor-in-chief of Radiance Magazine, a Southern California metaphysical magazine that allowed him to interview hundreds of spiritual luminaries between 2017 and 2023 He also led a men’s group for the last 10 years, and he’s been in his own divine union relationship with a female shaman and Twin Flames whisperer. Welcome to the show. Scott.

Scott Woehrer 3:22
Thank you, Kevin. I’m glad to be here.

Kevin Anthony 3:26
Okay, so I gave a little bit of an intro about what we’re going to talk about here, but we have to start at the very beginning. So when we say women are outgrowing their relationships, what do we really mean by that? What are we talking about here?

Scott Woehrer 3:42
Sure, and some of them aren’t. Some of them aren’t, you know, so this so obviously the ears will prick up of those who are in that situation. And women already start ahead of men, in a sense, by having just more emotional intelligence. They get their heart engaged with a lot of their decision-making and thinking with their mind, whereas men tend to stay up in their heads, intellectualizing, and being mental about a lot of things. And definitely a goal of both men and women is to unite the masculine and feminine within each of them. So I have the feminine and the masculine inside me. The feminine is my more nurturing side, where nurturing is called upon for me, but the masculine is there for everything else, for the more aggressive things, protection, and that sort of thing.

And so women have more emotional intelligence. They love to get together in groups, to be with each other, because they know there are things they can exchange with each other. On a certain level that is a little more easy than with their male mate many times. And that’s why I recommend in the book for men to get together in groups as well, to have a place where no one’s judge. You. You know, there’s a loneliness epidemic out there, and a lot of men just stop making friends after a certain age. You know, we get to a certain age and we don’t have any, let alone a male friend, you can say, I love you too. That’s another challenge I put in the book. If, if you don’t have a friend, a male friend, that you can say, I love you too, then you have some work to do because being connected to the community, being connected to other men, say in a monthly men’s group, or even weekly, if you can do it, where men share what’s working for them, or what they could use support in that they’re challenged by. It’s a wonderful thing. It’s a good thing for the world to get men together, talking in that way and learning, maybe to express themselves before they get the heart attack before they get cancer and that sort of thing, because they’ve been suppressing things since childhood.

And one of the things men frequently suppress, and it hurts their relationship is their reason for being here. They’re a gift. Most men lead lives of quiet desperation. Is a famous quote, right? A lot of men are out there in a job, in a relationship, in a situation with children or without that they hate, they do not like, they’re stressed. They have to drink a lot when they come home or smoke a lot when they come home to relax because they’re stressed, because they hate it, because they’re not supposed to be there. So one of the things men need to do for the planet, for the relationship, and for themselves, the relationship with themselves, find out why you’re here, and do that thing. Now that doesn’t mean you’re gonna quit your job when you got to pay a mortgage. Okay? The universe will conspire with you to move in that direction, if you claim it for yourself if you have the worthiness that you’re worth doing what you were meant to do, and if it’s playing guitar, but you know you’re not great at it yet, fine. Move in that direction. The universe will conspire with you, will help you, with the kids, with the other things, and so, yeah, you know, years from now, if the universe moves you in that direction, and you’re playing gigs and you that’s how you can make a living, then great.

Kevin Anthony 7:17
So let’s slow down a minute here because we have a lot of time to talk about all this. And I want to kind of move back to some of the earlier things that you said, you bet. So what I really wanted to establish first in this interview was what the difference is, you know, between men and women as far as this personal development. So let’s start there, which is sure you were kind of talking about the fact that women, in general, tend to be more connected to their heart and their emotions than men, yes, so that was kind of the first major statement that you made. And I would say, yes, that is true, and that is because women, by nature, are emotional beings. They’re far more ruled by their emotions, so it’s easy for them to access emotions, because they live in their emotions, 24/7, whereas men definitely do not. And we have, of course, all of society’s pressures to not be as emotional as men, right?

So we’re told to, you know, we shouldn’t show our emotions we should just, you know, suck it up. You use the phrase living in quiet desperation, which, of course, immediately brings into my mind lyrics from the Pink Floyd song, hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way, you know, yeah. So, I mean, that song was written decades ago, so this is not a new phenomenon. But yeah, that idea that women tend to be more in touch with their emotions, to begin with, and so I think for women, it’s easier for them to go out and, you know, not just be in those emotions, but sort of recognize that there are emotions, and kind of work with them, whereas men struggle with them more. So it’s correct that if you want to be an integrated masculine man, which is the term that I use, you want to have those classically masculine traits, but you also want to do some work to get into your emotions, right, and understand that you have them, let them flow so you’re not bottling them up, because, as you correctly said, they can manifest in a heart attack or cancer or some other thing like that.

And that is a place where potentially, men’s groups are really a good idea. It’s really interesting, because when doing this work, right, you’ll often hear people say like, Well, men need to get in touch with their emotions. They need to share their emotions more, and then men will hear this, right? And then they’ll go home and they’ll dump it all on their wives or their girlfriends or whatever, and they’ll get vulnerable, and they’ll share about all the things that you know they’re worried about in life. And I’m not sure if I can pay the mortgage, and I don’t know about this, and I don’t know about that, and it doesn’t have the. Effect of solving the problems in their relationship that they were told that it has because there’s nothing wrong with like when women say they want you to share your emotions, what they really want you to share is, Honey, I love you. You’re amazing. You make my life better in every way, right? You know they want to hear that you have these emotions, especially as they pertain to her in the relationship and that sort of thing, what she doesn’t want is to have you dump all your insecurities and emotional, you know, baggage and stuff.

Scott Woehrer 10:30
That’s right, absolutely. You know, trauma dumping is common. And I remember I used to feel, isn’t that where the relationship is for you can just tell, tell them everything. But the fact is, that’s too much, and that’s why, when you feel the need to do that therapy, talk therapy is a wonderful thing, because they’re paid to listen to you, just dump and dump and dump, and then they’ll reorganize them and serve them back to you, reflect them back to you, in a helpful way that could help from the first session if you found a good one. So absolutely. And here’s another thing, I’d go a step further and say this, a lot of times, your partner is dealing with their own stuff, and they don’t. They don’t want to get entangled in your stuff.

Now, that doesn’t mean they don’t want to hear the general outline of what’s going on with you, but you know, Ram Dass tells the story. I’ve seen this video online where he says, a woman came up to me and just vented to me this whole thing about her daughter and this whole family drama situation. And when she’s done, I said, I hear you. And she didn’t like that. That wasn’t enough. So she ended up telling the story from the beginning all over again, feeling like, I don’t think he heard me, because his reaction was one, not of one of jumping into my drama with me, which you don’t want to do. That’s like someone’s in quicksand, and you jump into quicksand to rescue him, better to tie a rope around a tree and toss it to them. You have empathy instead of sympathy. Sympathy is when it’s oh my gosh, oh my and then we’re in a co-dependent situation right there. Then we’re babying them, mothering them, fathering them, whatever it is, and that is not gonna let them heal from that point.

So what Ram Dass was doing and others could do is simply hold space. Holding space is a little more than even active listening. Okay, listening is a beautiful gift you can give somebody, right? Really listening, but holding space for someone is allowing without any energy of judgment, okay, you really cannot judge them even 1% and allowing them to express themselves in the way that they need to, any way that they need to, at that moment. And it’s wonderful when this happens. And so what is optimal in a relationship is, and I’ll do this, I’ll be like, Oh, I got angry, or I got or something ticked me off, or I got sad about something. Even better, if I can self-regulate, self-soothe and heal myself and bring that conversation to my partner so she doesn’t need to do anything. She doesn’t need to get all co-dependent. Go tell you know, that sounds, you know, that’s codependent. So I would, and I had to be, I had to learn to do this because I was used to dumping. I thought that was a good thing, or listening to somebody else dump. I thought that was, Wow, I’m really helping them to really feel the emotions of this.

And, well, you just dropped both your energy and you’re not helping them, because every, see, everyone is on their divine path. We can’t fix anybody, and men in particular, tend to think we can, but they are on their own divine path, and the best place for us to be in is at at the highest level, is allowing them to resolve that on their own. Because if you just tell them what to do, that’s not teaching, that’s not you know, you can you again. You can have empathy for someone and what would love to do now and help that person. But usually, a lot of times, love, some people call it tough love, but real love is whatever the situation calls for, does the situation call for you jumping in the quicksand with this person or tossing them a rope so that may alleviate some guilt you have of not helping someone that you normally would have helped in that sympathy way by just reminding yourself they’re on a divine path. Who are you to interrupt it? You know?

Kevin Anthony 14:41
Another great spiritual truth that I think a lot of people don’t really get, but like, if you spend enough time studying the great spiritual traditions, eventually you’ll get what they’re trying to tell you. And when you do, the natural reaction that you have is to go, why didn’t they just say. That to begin with, because it’s all veiled, right? It’s all veiled, veiled on purpose, and the reason is for exactly what you just said, if they had just come out on page one of that spiritual book and told you the truth, you wouldn’t get it. You wouldn’t believe it. You had to go through your own journey and your own process to get there and to understand it, right?

So it’s very similar when it comes to what’s happening here in relationships, you can’t just tell your partner, here’s what you need to do, just what I tell you to do, right? They do have to go on their own journey. But this leads me to, you know, sort of the premise of this episode here, which is that, you know, and I created the title, but it was based on the conversation you and I had, but it’s this premise that women are embarking on these journeys lately more so than men. Yes, I’m curious, like, is that really something that you see? Do you see more women going on these personal development journeys, reading the books, going to the workshops, you know, doing whatever, and fewer men. Is that? Is that actually something that you see out there?

Scott Woehrer 16:09
I do. I mean, we’ll just look at politics, and we’re, you know, relationships and what? There are no real great male role models for, for divine union relationship. There’s, there’s the tech Bros you know, people doing things without fear of consequences, whether it’s how you date people, whether you cheat, you lie, or whether you’re selling investments that you you know aren’t good investments for the people getting them, but as long as you get yours, it’s okay, that’s what’s spoken out there, not to mention the other gender issues that are out there. So to come back and celebrate the masculine, and I say the divine masculine, to differentiate it from toxic masculine, but it’s sort of like with love. You know, people say unconditional love. Love is already unconditional, but we say it to help ourselves along a little bit, to remind ourselves that love does indeed have no conditions and at its purest.

Kevin Anthony 17:04
Yeah, basically, I was just curious if that was something that you’ve seen.

Scott Woehrer 17:08
I do. The rise of the feminine in spiritual circles is very well known. In the Age of Aquarius, patriarchy has had the last 2000 years, and we need a rebalancing. It was obvious. It plays out on the world stage of unregulated male egos and such so.

Kevin Anthony 17:31
So the next question becomes, then, why do you think that’s happening? Why do you think there is a surge of women who are embarking on these spiritual and personal growth journeys where, where their men aren’t starting or aren’t coming along to the same extent?

Scott Woehrer 17:48
Well, the planet itself is conscious, and you call her Gaia, and there’s feminine energy there, and it’s, it’s just, I mean if you think of the Earth as a conscious essence as well as the sun, there are movements. There are energetic patterns, energetic weather, if you will. And it’s time for the feminine. And I think we can all feel it. We can just look outside and see how much lack, I mean, lack of empathy and lack of compassion, is actually celebrated in some corners of the national conversation out there, which is a business, capitalism, extreme, taken to an extreme right. It’s as opposed to conscious capitalism that actually thinks about people and looks out for people, the way it used to do in the 50s and 60s, more often, where CEOs of companies actually prize prided themselves on being good citizens of the planet, and the country only took salaries. There are about seven times the amount of their lowest paid employee paid high taxes for all the services. And that was the greatest time America kept saying they wanted to get back to that, except they don’t want to do all the little things well that it would take.

Kevin Anthony 19:06
That’s a really deep conversation as to why that shifted. But my personal opinion, just to say it in one sentence, is it’s the absolute result of the moral breakdown of society. That’s what sure that is what has allowed them to do those things because of the pendulum swing. Yeah, but when you when you dissociate. So why would somebody be concerned about being a good, moral person, or being good for the country, or being a good CEO? Why would they do that? Because they have morals because they believe in something bigger. They believe in, maybe it’s patriotism towards the country. Maybe they’re more tapped into their soul, I believe maybe potentially, yeah, but so there’s been a concerted effort over many decades to break down that moral fabric.

And once you do that right, there are no rules now. Now we can do anything we want. So you see, you see a rise in, say, something like atheism. Right? Well, if there is nothing else, right, then what does it matter what I do here, right? You’ll see there’s been a huge rise in, literally, the satanic religion, right? I mean, they just did a big demonstration, a Black Mass ceremony at a State Capitol in this country, right? So when you break down the moral fabric, and you say there are no rules, you can do whatever you want, and there’s no moral consequences, there’s no spiritual consequences, then you get that extreme.

Scott Woehrer 19:52
So, and this is what we’ve created. It is, it is out. It’s up to us. We did this. We put our kids in front of screens and let their childhood disappear on screens, and now they don’t know how to, how to have a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. They can’t talk to them because they’ve been behind these screens. We’ve disassociated ourselves in our society. We’ve there’s no conversation for caring. I mean, look at the homeless problem in the country. Look at what is it? The insecure, as far as eating appetite, the food insecure people out there, it’s incredible. And for those Christians, I mean, Jesus said, feed them and clothe them. And there are churches out there who do, in fact, churches for whatever people want to say against them. They are some of the biggest charities and charitable causes out there. But we need more. We need a conversation about it. We don’t need, you know, the Pope and our Vice President fighting in the open. I mean, you know, it’s what’s going on. I don’t want to go. You talk about, you talk about basic decency, these basic virtues we’ve sort of let go, and we don’t treasure that. We treasure domination, and making money. So let’s call it out.

Kevin Anthony 21:46
Yeah, I don’t want to go too far down the political realm, because that’s not really what the show is about, but it is something that factors into this. So it’s, you know, it’s okay to talk. It’s a part of the social fabric. Exactly. I wanted to come back to something that you said about, well, it’s sort of time for the feminine, because this is something I actually hear out in the social narrative quite a lot, and I’m curious what you mean by that like it’s time for the feminine, right? Because, okay, well, I’ll let you answer that, and then I’ll tell you my view on it.

Scott Woehrer 22:21
Well, first of all, men need to heal the feminine inside them. We talk about having a wounded inner child. Well, frequently it can be more helpful with either a talk therapist or a holistic healer to distinguish the feminine and the masculine inside of each of us and determine which one is wounded. I was on a podcast the other day. The woman talked about, well, what about when you know the woman, she’s upset about having to do all the laundry and all the housework, and they both work full time? I say I agree. Well, in many of these cases, or the woman’s earning more money. Or she’s supporting him and he’s being irresponsible?

Well, that’s a guy with a wounded masculine where he’s letting his feminine be the only thing that comes out, and she has to bring out more of her masculine to fill in the gaps, to pay the bills, or do whatever. So the sooner men can acknowledge, whether they want to acknowledge, that they have an inner feminine or just that they have feelings and they have so this is where what women are waiting for, for men, they’re waiting for them to fix themselves, in a sense, to get in alignment with their heart and soul, their heart, mind, and soul. Most of us are not. Most of us don’t know what we’re supposed to be doing for a little we don’t know why we’re here, because we haven’t found that because we listen to well-meaning parents who let us down a different track. And no, you can’t make a living as a musician, writer, artist, whatever it is. And it’s not that we don’t need our plumbers and construction people. We do.

But if you have a passion for something that you’re suppressing and denying. Bring it out. Go to amateur nights, get the joy of it out of you. You don’t have to be Katy Perry or whoever to you know, up there at that level to be called a success, your success, if you’re doing what you love. So let’s all check our definitions of success. Frequently we have an unconscious one in our head that we’re actually leaning into, that we don’t realize we are that is not a healthy definition. We don’t think if we have a certain amount of money in our bank accounts, we’re not a success. Please. So find out what you’re meant to do here.

Kevin Anthony 24:39
We’re gonna take a break in just a moment, and when we do, I really want to come back and focus on what men can do right, how they can get back on track. So we’re gonna dive into each one of those things a lot deeper cool. What I really wanted to try to get across in this first segment is that there is a bit of a difference in that. We’re seeing right, that maybe men are start are lagging behind a little bit in their spiritual development. We’ll kind of want to talk about some of the reasons for that, and then, of course, get into, you know, how they can sort of up their game, so to speak. And I asked you that question about, you know, what does it mean when you say it’s time for, you know, the feminine or time for women, you know, that sort of thing. Because, you know, you mentioned the pendulum before, right?

How we as humanity constantly swing from one end of one extreme to the other. You know, we’ve constantly got that pendulum swing. So one of the things that I’ve been seeing these days is that when this conversation comes up about it’s time for the feminine, you’re hearing it come from the feminist and it’s like, smash the patriarchy. Women need to be in charge. There should be no men in government, as they completely go to the opposite extremes. And I wanted to make sure that the audience understood that that is not what we are saying here, what we actually want here is we want both men and women to rise up equally, to be the best version of themselves, right? And if you’re a woman, to be the best feminine version of yourself, if you’re a man, the best masculine version of yourself, meaning that we’re not trying to be one or the other one. If I’m a woman, I’m not trying to force myself to be, you know, because this is something you see all the time, and it’s I’ve been seeing it since the 80s, when women started getting seriously into the workforce, it was like, I got to put the pantsuit on, I got to wear the shoulder pads. I got to cut my hair short so I look like a man. Then I need to go in there and compete like a man and be a bitch like a man and do all of that. Right?

That worked at that time for a certain goal, but that’s not ultimately, what is going to make women happy or what is going to restore balance. And I tell people all the time that, you know, women will approach things differently, but it’s not any less powerful, right? So I use the my listeners have heard this a million times. I use martial arts analogies because I’m a martial artist myself, but I’ll say, you know the masculine way is art that’s more like Muay Thai, right? Which is Thai kickboxing, which is just all about power and using bones to hurt people, right? Whereas Akito is all about taking the attacker’s energy and just redirecting it where you want it to go. And so they’re just a beautiful example of masculine versus more feminine energies. Just because a woman doesn’t show up and is like, here’s what’s gonna happen and you’re gonna do this, blah, blah, blah, and like, get all agro and masculine doesn’t mean that she isn’t powerful. In fact, I sometimes think it’s more powerful to come in from your feminine and suddenly just get everybody doing everything that you want them to do, without ever having to do anything, without ever having to raise your voice, without ever having to force somebody that is power, right? So anyway, the idea that we want to rise both of them up to be beautiful equals that are both contributing to society, that’s what we’re really talking about.

Scott Woehrer 28:14
That power you’re talking about to move through with ease that comes from knowing who you are and how you do that is you meditate. Okay, to find if you don’t know who you are, what you’re supposed to do here, maybe you got some inkling, some ideas, meditate 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening, if you can. And you know, they say, I don’t have time to do that. Those people need to meditate for an hour. If you don’t have time for 20 minutes, then you need an hour. So 20 minutes, though, is great and to still your mind, to follow your breath, is a beautiful way to do it. It makes my whole day better. When I do this for 20 minutes, I’ve been setting the timer on my phone because it feels like such a long time. Like is that 20 minutes up yet feels like an hour, but it helps. And there are many meditation techniques. People can go to YouTube and type in guided meditation, and 1000s of them will come up. And they’re all adventures that take you into a forest, that have you meet your inner child, they have you meet your spirit guides that help you alleviate the anxiety of the moment, all kinds of things.

Kevin Anthony 29:21
Yeah, I am a big fan of meditation. I’ve actually been meditating since I was in college in the early 90s. So, yeah, I’ve been through a lot of different iterations of that. But before we get into, you know, the things that that you know, men can do to step up their game and become better versions of themselves. Let me just take a quick break for the second sponsor ad. And then when I come back, let’s, let’s dive into things a little deeper, like meditation and, you know, personal work, spiritual work, journaling, group work, all that kind of stuff. Because we want to, I like to leave people with things that they can actually do, like, Oh, I just listened to that. I just wrote down a list of like three things I could change today, right?

So let’s do that when we come back. Okay, men, are you tired of falling short in the bedroom and in your relationship? Do you want your woman to respect you and crave you? Do you want to be the man she secretly brags about to all her friends? What if you could become this man? What if you could not only master your masculine sexuality but also be the dream man who shows up for his woman in all the ways she desires? What if you could become so irresistible that she becomes addicted to you? If you are ready to become that man, then go to https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/men/. And that’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/men/. That is obviously an ad for my Men’s coaching program. That’s where we get to work on all of this stuff, as Scott was saying earlier, this is where you can come and share your insecurities, and we can talk about it and figure out how to get you back on track without dumping it all over your woman, right? We can teach you how to embody the classically masculine traits that are great, and that the world needs, while also learning how to be a more sensitive partner and to allow your emotions to move through so they’re not getting stuck. We get to work on all of that stuff. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/men/.

Okay, so we’ve talked a lot about and we kind of set the premise of, you know, women seem to be doing more interpersonal work. They seem to be doing more they seem to be rising up a bit more these days. And I will say that from my experience, and I will admit it might be slightly skewed, but I do a lot of group women’s coaching these days, and so I’m working with a lot of women, and when they come to me, I’m not going to say that they’re all doing great and it’s always the man’s problem, because that is definitely not the case, but I do see a significant number of women that when they come to me and they describe the dynamic that’s happening in their relationship, that it seems that even though they don’t have all The tools, and they don’t have all the skills either, that they are trying harder than their partners are. That’s what I see. I see that they’re trying harder. They like they’re there in the group because they know they don’t have it figured out right, and they’re trying to figure it out, and they’re open to coaching.

And when I ask them about their man, they’ll, I’ll often just get, No, he won’t do that. Or no, no, he would never go see somebody. Or no, he’s not going to do that, right? So what I see and I get, I get, it might be skewed, because I’m not doing men’s group work currently, at the moment, although I am working individually with them, but I see a lot of that. And so that’s one of the things that you got me interested in wanting to have this discussion. Because I’m like, Okay, I see that. I’m curious what you see. We kind of hash that out, right? So then the question becomes, what can men do? How can men start to, you know, step it up a little bit? What can they do? You’ve mentioned a few things, but please talk more about it.

Scott Woehrer 33:00
They can look at their addictions. So Let’s confront that. So a lot of you know, I suggest that to be a great lover, to be a great partner, a king to your queen, you need to get things out of the way that is in the way of real intimacy, and those things frequently, are addictions. Now, whether you’re you know, and you know what they are in your life, you probably, you know if you smoking too much pot in the evening, if you’re taking too much cannabis, you’re drinking too much to excess, a lot. You have a pornography addiction. You have a gaming addiction. You You know, do online gambling and spend the household money on on various things online. And we all know what they all are. Need to get a grip on that. Now this is called accountability.

Accountability is a word I never used to like as well as responsibility, because they sounded oppressive. It sounded like, oh, I ain’t gonna have any fun? Well, the fact is, accountability takes into account my life. It means I’m in control. It means I know what I’m doing. It means I’m not out of control. I’m not a slave to an addiction. And if you want to be saying those things, let me tell you, it’s a much easier life to not have them, you’ll want to focus on that. Now, whether that’s through meditation, I recommend a formula of meditation, journaling, and getting coaching, particularly from a holistic coach, someone who takes into account mind, body, and spirit, as you do. You know and take care of yourself, get exercise, get out into nature, but find out who you are. Find out what’s got a hold of you, what is controlling you, and don’t you want to be free. Don’t you want to be free? Of all of that, I that’s, I have a big section in the book, uh, good morning. My Queen. About that. I. And I had to confront it myself, and I tell my story about that.

Kevin Anthony 35:04
Yeah, so that’s great advice. Step one is, you really do need to get hold of you know, you could call it your shadow side. You could call it your demons, your demons, whatever terminology you want to use for that. But because you’re right, those things are 100% holding you back in your development. They are absolutely preventing you from being the best version of yourself that you can be. Yes, so, but to do that, you have to get real honest. You got to get real honest with yourself. And you’re real curious, curious first and then honest. Because the thing is, is you might see stuff along that journey, and then you’re just like, No, no, no. That’s not really that. I’m not really doing that. That’s not really happening, right? So you get in that denial phase. So yes, number one, you got to get curious enough to look, and then you got to get really honest about what it is that you find when you look.

Scott Woehrer 35:55
And you know, curious and honest, like, if I gave up X, Y, and Z, I probably would have a much better month, more clear mornings, feel more powerful and empowered in my life. I’m pretty sure that would be the case if I gave up X, Y, and Z, but I’m not going to do it right now because I’m addicted or I need that dopamine hit.

Kevin Anthony 36:17
I can tell you, man, I have a good friend that I have known for over 20 years, and he’s an amazing guy, and he’s super smart, he really is, which is part of the problem, but he drinks too much, right? And, yeah, but he knows this. And so once a year, every year, generally, at the beginning of the year, he’ll go on a 30-day fast. He won’t drink at all, right? And every single year he’ll tell me, man, it’s amazing. I stopped drinking for the month, and my bench press has gone up, and I have so much more energy, and I’m getting more stuff done. And every year I say to him, man, wouldn’t it be great if you could do that all year long? And every year he goes back to the same habit again. It says we have this conversation year after year after year.

Scott Woehrer 37:05
Yeah. So he does, like a sober January or something, yeah, okay.

Kevin Anthony 37:10
Yeah. But so the reason I bring that example up is because, you know, even if you recognize that you have these demons or these, you know, issues or these challenges, these addictions. Yeah, and even if you occasionally take steps to do something about it, it doesn’t mean that you’re really making the life change that you need to make.

Scott Woehrer 37:30
Well, it sounds like he’s created a story that says, As long as I give myself a month off, I get to abuse it for the other 11 months of the year. That’s a story he’s created in his head, and, yeah, he’ll learn before long that’s not tenable.

Kevin Anthony 37:46
And then, you know, and that’s, that’s why I said, You got to get real honest with yourself, right? You got to look at it and go, Okay, radically honest. What’s really happening here? How is it really affecting me? How could life really be better if I changed the way I do things? So I completely agree, I think, get curious, really look at this stuff, be really honest about what you find. And here’s the thing I tell men all the time, if you find stuff you don’t like, right? You confront the shadows and you’re like, Oh, God, this is I can’t even believe I do that. I’m ashamed of it as often a word you’ll hear, don’t beat yourself up. That accomplishes nothing, right?

And everybody has their areas or their issues where they need to do more work. So don’t waste any energy on, you know, feeling guilty or shameful or beating yourself. Yeah, just start to take action now to change it, that’s all you have to do right now, you talked about some ways they can start to take action. So talk about different ways that men can start to take action to, you know, change their patterns in their being.

Scott Woehrer 38:54
Well, if starting your own group sounds a little ambitious, I’d recommend it in your living room or if we do it in a local metaphysical store because they’re very positive about, you know, good energy. And want to help the world in that way. Help men gather and start a journal. There’s something that happens with your life when you write down your thoughts on a piece of paper. Writers already know about this, but for people who don’t normally journal, it just helps you see your stuff. You’re like, oh my gosh, I wrote that it matters. It matters. And by the way, you’re worth spending the time. If you say, oh, there’s a waste of time. I got other things you should be doing.

And people say that instead of meditation, a lot, actually, there is almost no other important thing you could be doing than taking care of yourself, because then that self goes out into the world. And if you go out into the world without your morning meditation, and you kind of got some angry, energetic residue from your dreams, from the night, some unconscious programming coming online for you right now, because you didn’t do anything to stop. It. It’s just this gunk meditate, meditate that is so key and have the conversation with yourself that it’s a thing you should do for yourself. It’s called a self-love conversation. Men aren’t used to hearing that or being suggested that, but man, if you don’t love yourself, nobody will, and nobody’s going to love yourself like you, not even your partner, not even your kids, your parents. You have to take control that reminds finally, do. That’s one of the things that women in our life are waiting for us.

They’re waiting for their men because they want to trust them. You say, Oh, like you know they want protection. Well, I’m going to protect her when we’re out, she wants protection from you too, that you’re not going to lose your temper over stuff you haven’t resolved in childhood yet, but they hope that you are working it out, and you’re not going to take this into your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, having the same argument because you haven’t hugged that seven-year-old wounded child in you and healed that time that you got abandoned, felt unloved, got got abused, or whatever it was, whatever you need to surrender and let go so that you can have a happier life as an adult.

Kevin Anthony 41:09
Yeah, you’re right. That’s absolutely so I did an entire episode on this show a while back about basically safety. That wasn’t in the title of the episode. It wasn’t like, here’s what women are looking for as far as safety, but the gist of that entire episode was that women are looking for safety and what that actually means to them. Because when, yeah, when you actually say to a man, well, she needs to feel safe with you, the first thing you usually get was, of course, she knows I would never hit her, right? Like, okay, that’s level one, but there’s a whole bunch of other levels of what it means safe in a relationship, one of which is what you just talked about. She needs to feel safe that she can trust you, and that you’re you’re not going to blow up at her because of some unresolved trauma that you have. Right? She needs to feel safe that she can trust you. So that is, for sure, a big part of the development that we as men need to work on. We need to heal those traumas, resolve that stuff, so that we’re not flying off the handle that stupid stuff, and, you know, making her feel unsafe in the relationship.

Scott Woehrer 42:11
I agree, being lazy about stuff, you know, being neglectful of of your part of the of the relationship. And that can include many things. That can mean making sure you got date nights, making sure you’re raking up the leaves, taking out the garbage, whatever it is, washing the dishes, absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 42:29
Yeah. One of the things I’m appreciating about our conversation today is you and I. We use kind of different words. We have slightly different perspectives, but the message underneath it is exactly the same, right? So as I’m listening to you describe, you know, things like, like, everything that you just said, right now, it’s exactly what I tell men they need to do all the time, right? The underlying message is the same. And the reason why I think this is so important is because you know, people that listen to me regularly, they know where I’m coming from, right? They know what my points of view are. And so it can be really easy to say, well, that’s just what Kevin thinks. And because Kevin, you know, they can put me in a box and say, Kevin has this belief structure, and so therefore that’s where this all comes from.

But I’d love to have somebody like yourself on the show whose background is different from mine, who comes from a slightly different perspective, and yet, the underlying message underneath what you are sharing is exactly the same as what I share on a regular basis. And I hope that people can see that and get that right, and see them this is sort of like, I like to use the term. It’s like a universal truth, right? You could come from a very deep, you know, sort of a little bit more on the New Age spirituality side. Or you can go from, you know, another psychology, yeah, but the underlying truth is still there.

Scott Woehrer 43:56
People like Carl Young and Nietzsche were quite spiritual by today’s standards, I mean, Carl Jung came up with the collective unconscious synchronicities. I mean, God, that’s the basis one, oh, a spirituality 101, these days. But I think the main message of my book is infused in the way I told it, and that is, there’s fun here to be had, guys, we’re leaving a lot on the table when we don’t step up when we feel intimidated. I can’t be a king. Yes, you can just by your birthright. It is your birthright, and all you have to do is step in yourself. No one can do it for you. No one can slay your dragons for you. I had to slay my own. I still have to slay my own and welcome it, embrace it, because it takes you up a notch. It takes you up a level. For at each dragon you slay, I say in quotes, and those are, those are your issues, those are your internal traumas, whatever they are, any insecurities that come up, man, get on it, even if you have to, you know, go to the self-help. Section of a bookstore. Listen to spiritual talks online on my phone every anytime I go to Instagram or anything, it’s, you know, Dalai Lama. It’s Ram Dass. You know, these spiritual people give me constant messages throughout the day that infuse my life.

Kevin Anthony 45:18
It’s Joseph Campbell’s The Hero’s Journey, right? I mean, that’s what it is. Each of us has our own hero’s journey that we need to embark on, and if we successfully complete that journey, we become a better version of ourselves, right? Which not only improves ourselves, it improves our relationships, it improves the world in general. And, and, yeah, a silly comment, just, just to add to that you were talking about, you know, being a king, right? Yeah. And, to quote somebody else, Mel Brooks, it’s good to be the king. It’s good to be the king who wouldn’t want to be the king? Now, of course, you got to be the right kind of king, right? That’s right. You got to be the Benevolent King, right? Not the asshole dictator King.

Scott Woehrer 46:05
No, no. And the thing is, there’s, there’s so much fun and deliciousness to get out of a relationship, particularly with you say to your partner, you know what? I know we’ve normalized pornography and everything, but it’s just it’s kind of weird to be looking at other people. We have each other. So I’d like to just move that out of our relationship and lead us to a place where intimacy is between us, just the two of us, and I guarantee your lovemaking will go through the roof at that point, because you know what you focus on expands, and you focus on her more. You give her all your sensual energy that is meant for the relationship, and it isn’t leaking out anywhere else in inappropriate relationships with other people or inappropriate looking on the internet. Check yourself, man, get a hold of yourself.

And if you find yourself scrolling through things, you know you shouldn’t resolve to get to the bottom of it. I’m not saying you’re wrong. No one’s judging you, and that’s what a lot of people be saying, I’m gonna do what I want. That’s okay. There’s not even any judgment. I would suggest there is another way, a way that is more full and more embracing and devotional of your divine partner, and that is to give it all to her. Let me tell you, that will shift things, that is a shift you can make that she will feel. And a lot of times, our women are shifting ahead of us, if you will, if you want to look at it linearly, but you can look at also as they’re getting more into the deeper rings of themselves. Okay, and we’re still sort of on the surface. We haven’t resolved our conflicts with our father, our mother, wound, which a lot of men have, and they don’t admit. To get rid of the shame. Just go in, get it healed, whether you see a therapist, a coach, whatever, and get curious and get a hold of it, you guys just brought up, don’t want to get to your deathbed and just go, I should have done this. And that you’re on your deathbed already.

Kevin Anthony 48:01
For sure. You just brought up another point that is really important, and one that I talk about a lot. Basically, what you were saying is you just, have to give everything to her. Now that’s in the context of, you know, lovemaking, but it’s also in the context of your dedication and devotion to the relationship itself, right? You have to give everything to it. And this sometimes it’s a hard sell for men, right? I’ve worked with a lot of men, because traditionally, for years, I worked with primarily only men, before I was shifting into couples and now working with women. So this has traditionally been a hard sell. And I use another analogy to describe this. I have seen being an entrepreneur myself and having, you know, been in entrepreneurial circles, I’ve seen people say a lot of times in an entrepreneur where there are always people that are just starting out.

By the way, they will always say, I don’t want to put a lot of time and money into my business until it starts making some money, right? To which the rest of us always laugh and say, it’s never going to make any money until you put the time and the money into it, right? In other words, you have to put in first before you can get anything out of it. And it’s the same thing with your relationship. I tell men all the time, okay, you’re telling me you don’t want to invest 100% in this. You don’t want to give your all to this, because the relationship isn’t where you want it to be. But don’t you realize it’s not where you want it to be, because you’re not giving your all to it? And let’s take that even a step further and say women have this amazing ability to multiply anything you give them, right? So we have, you know, oh, you give a woman a house, she makes it a home. You give a woman a seed, she turns it into a child. Like whatever you give her, you give her, you know, the scraps of the groceries, somehow she’ll make an amazing meal out of it. They multiply the things that you give them.

If you give them your all in the relationship, she will multiply it, and what will come back to you will absolutely be more than you put into it, right? But you gotta be willing to do it. Now, sometimes men will do that, and then. A couple of weeks later, like it’s not happening. It’s not coming back to me, like you said it would, yeah, because she still doesn’t trust you. Because for the last 10 years, you haven’t done it, that’s right. Now you’ve done it for three weeks, and all of a sudden you’re expected to shift, give it time. When she learns that you’re consistent enough that she can trust you, it will happen.

Scott Woehrer 50:16
Have you heard of intimacy? So intimacy being broken down into me, I see so the best way to have great intimacy is to have a great intimate relationship with yourself. And if you don’t have practice at this, it’s a good thing to practice becoming your own best friend, fall in love with yourself, and you bring that kind of solidness to your relationship that’ll be appreciated. That means you don’t need anything from them. Everything they give you is out of their overflow. And the same with you, they don’t feel you’re sucking energy from them, taking from them like a vampire, an energy vampire. No, you’re giving because you’re taking care of your own needs.

Now that sounds unromantic, but what this means is she does not complete you, and you do not complete her. You complete yourself, and then you present yourself as a whole person to the relationship. Now, most of us get into relationships with all that stuff out there, wounded, unhealed stuff out in the open. So it’s like, Okay, time to get a hold of it. Time even tell your mate if you can look I know I do X, Y, and Z, and I don’t want to. I know that that’s co-dependent and does not grow a relationship. It’s unfair to you, that I do this to you, that I say this to you, talk. Tell on yourself, okay, own it, because you can’t do anything with it till you own it. You say, You know what, and I had to own at one point in some arguments I got into with my girlfriend, that there were some narcissistic tendencies in there. There was some gaslighting in there. I was arguing, and I thought I was sort of arguing against a bully. And I later saw that it was very harmful what I was doing, and I Why did I lose my crap on this stuff?

I didn’t lose my shit and went in and figured it out and healed it. Because, you know, they say whatever you’re fighting about is not what you’re fighting about. It’s always that thing linked to when you were abandoned as a kid, you felt unloved as a kid, and now you think she’s abandoning you, or she’s not doing something for you or stepping up because you have this unconscious expectation that she needs to do X, Y and Z, and then you’ll be okay. That’s the definition of codependency. If anybody needs to do anything for you to make you feel okay, that’s a co-dependent dynamic, and the goal for us as men, as humans, is to heal that in ourselves, give ourselves the love we’re looking for outside of ourselves because there’s nothing external to you, no person, no event, no inheritance that is going to feed your soul inside. You do that on your own, privately on the side, so that when you present yourself out, you are whole and complete. And people like hanging around with you, because they can feel you don’t want anything from there. You’re not pulling from them. They call it hooking people. You’re not hooking people. And it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a better way to live. And like I said, people want to be with you, and that’s you know, because you’re you’re you have homeostasis, right? The body medically wants to be in homeostasis. In that balance, we have a homeostasis of the mind, heart, and spirit. And it’s a great place to be, great play, a great way to conduct yourself through life, being connected yet again.

Kevin Anthony 53:46
Another thing in which we agree, is just that all the work starts from the inside. It always starts with, yeah, right, you know, I will often have people, you know, they’ll schedule a strategy call with me because they’re thinking about working with me. And then as we talk through the process a little bit, they’ll often say, Well, you know, I’m not in a relationship right now. Maybe I should wait until I get in a relationship and then, and then I’ll reach out to you again, and we can do some work to which I’m like, no, no, now is the time to do the work now so that you can actually then manifest a good relationship, a healthy relationship, so that you’re not making all the mistakes in that relationship and fucking it all up, do the inner work now.

Scott Woehrer 54:29
Well, there’s an actress out there that’s right, there’s an actress out there named Anna Kendrick. She was in Pitch Perfect, and she went on the record as saying she will never date another guy who is either not in therapy or has done it, he has to have done it or is in it, and she’s not dating him, because she realizes a lot of people out there with unhealed stuff, and man, it comes out one way or another, and that’s what the red flags are.

Kevin Anthony 54:55
And you know, again, to get back to something that I said much, much earlier, which you were. Agreed with, which is, don’t beat yourself up like when we say, you know, deal with your unhealed stuff. It’s not a blame thing. Everybody has unhealed stuff. I don’t care how amazing your parents were. They did the best they could do, even if they were, you know, great parents, they still did stuff that scarred you, traumatized you, no matter how hard they tried not to. It’s just life, right? We’ve all got our stuff. Some of it might even be, you know if you want to get into the metaphysical trauma that has been passed down from generations, it didn’t come from your parents, right? There’s all different things that could be there. We’ve all got it. Just admit that, figure out what yours is for you, and work on healing it.

Scott Woehrer 55:42
You know, there is something men can do right now, and they can think about this and that. And I love this advice from Bashar a spiritual teacher. He says, Follow your highest excitement. Always, always follow your highest excitement, whatever that is that is your purpose, yeah, and if it leads you to a higher excitement, go off on that and don’t have any attachment to the outcome. You know, don’t think you’re a musician. You’re going to be on and doing a concert next month, but find out what your highest excitement. Is it teaching guitar? Is it playing guitar? Is it building guitars? Follow your highest excitement, always and always. That’s, that’s what you’re supposed to be doing here. That is the biggest clue to your purpose.

Kevin Anthony 56:27
Yeah, and you’ve mentioned that a lot of times throughout this, and I’m glad that you came back to it because it’s a great way to end this segment, which is this idea of, you know, to quote Joseph Campbell again, he said, Follow your bliss, right? That’s right, which has been misinterpreted in 100,000 ways. Unfortunately, a lot of people take that to mean like, oh, just, you know, follow whatever makes you feel good. I mean, well, drugs and alcohol can potentially make you feel good. That is not what Joseph Campbell meant. What he meant is exactly what you’re saying, which is that if you can get in touch with the things that really light you up in life do that. That will help you become a better version of yourself. You will do that thing better.

You know, you mentioned, No, there’s nothing wrong with being a plumber. Some people love being a plumber, right? Some people love what it takes to figure out a complex plumbing issue and then do it. But create some you know, it is a work of art in itself. If you have some complicated issue and you solve it and you make it work for somebody, right? Running water is great. Yes, it sure is. But the point is, is just like, whatever that thing is you do find something that you love to do, right? Yeah, you know, I my listeners, know I’ve talked about this many times, all the different career paths I’ve had in my life. Why? Because I kept trying to figure out, what was the thing that Yeah, you said, like, what am I here to do? What is the thing that lights me up? Blah, blah. I feel fortunate that I finally found it, because I love myself too. I do now, but it took a long time, I was always envious of people who knew, like, I’ve known people who are like, they’ll say stuff like, ever since I was 10 years old, I knew I wanted to be this, and I’ve been doing it my whole life, and I’m a master at it now.

Scott Woehrer 58:12
How did it change the quality of your life when you finally embraced that?

Kevin Anthony 58:16
Oh, it changed it dramatically, absolutely, even, even, even, you know, it doesn’t mean that everything gets better. There are still struggles in life, right? Sure, you know, I make less money now than I did when I was doing something else that I hated, right? So, but abundance shows up in many ways. It shows up in many ways, right? But the point is, you know, it doesn’t alleviate all struggles in in life, but what it does do is, when you have those struggles, make them easier to deal with.

Scott Woehrer 58:43
Agreed. Agreed. You know, when you’re whole and complete, when you’re grounded, anchored wherever you go. I used to say i i was a when I was younger, I used to be amazed at people who were very self-possessed. They seem to know themselves. They always knew what to say, and what to do. And I’d look at them an amazement, like, how do you do that? How do you know that? And that’s just because, through my lineage, I wasn’t taught that. I wasn’t encouraged. I was encouraged to believe some Catholic beliefs and all that. But and have external things, instead of cultivating my inner world, I discovered that later.

And you know that when you are when you can do that, then you always know what to do next. You always know what to say next. When you come from your spirit, your heart, the connection inside the heart is connected to the soul, and when it fills your heart, it’s filling your soul, and you know you’re on the right track to do what you’re supposed to do. Don’t deny yourself that just you know, give that gift to yourself of doing it on some level, follow your highest excitement. The universe will help you. The universe will help you pay that mortgage, take care of the kids, whatever your responsibilities are. It’s like turning a big ship at sea. It takes. A while to turn, but you start turning the wheel, and it’ll eventually get where you want to go. Yes, absolutely, and know that you’re worthy of that.

Kevin Anthony 1:00:09
This is the perfect segue into, if people need help on this journey, how can they find you and the work you do in your book, and anything else that you have that might be able to help them with this?

Scott Woehrer 1:00:20
Well, the book’s on Amazon. It’s as an ebook, so you can read it on your phone in two seconds. It’s on the shorter side. It’s a short and punchy book if you will. But it’s it’s simple, but it’s not easy, right? They say when you talk about working on your traumas, that takes a little time, that takes effort. So you might have the bookmark in the book for a while. At that point, if you go off and go get therapy or do your journaling, get into nature, sit under a tree, hug a tree, touch the grass, as they say, get your bare feet in the grass. It feels so good. You feel connected. And you’ll get to hear that quiet vice voice of your soul, which isn’t as loud as the ego, which is judgmental, saying, hey, this, that this, that meditation helps quiet The ego never goes away, but just quiets it, so that those impressions from your soul can come up and give you, tell you which way your path is going today. It’s not somebody else’s path.

Your path is into unmarked territory. So don’t be afraid by that. And don’t be afraid that you can’t see where the next step is at this moment, trust. Trust that where you go as your intuition is leading you like a rudder. The intuition is the soul manifestation of the soul guidance. Okay, it’s telling you you need to go. And you know, it’s true. You’ve listened to it before. You’ve listened to it. It’s given you the impression that I shouldn’t do that. I shouldn’t do the you know, it’s that deep thing, but you got to be quiet enough to hear it, to experience it, because, man, that ego will take over, and it’s very seductive. You know, it overcorrects on things and tries to steer us away from things. But the fact is, real life involves a little bit of risk. It just does you want to make a new friend, say hi to somebody. They could reject you. You know you could. You could write a song that nobody likes, and that’s a chance you got to take. You got to take risks, whereas your ego say, No, don’t do that. Remember, when you were hurt, remember, knows don’t even leave the house. It’s safer inside. Doesn’t even want to leave the house. That’s that old, good old ego. So it’s just about calm. It’s like, Dude, it’s okay. I got this. It’s okay. I’m letting my heart lead on this one ego. You can just lie down, go to sleep for a bit. I’m going to be steered by my soul to fulfill my soul’s purpose or essence. That’s a beautiful thing.

Kevin Anthony 1:02:45
Yes. And I would add to that too, you know, I was, there’s a big I watch a lot of YouTube videos, especially since I have a YouTube channel, so I’m constantly watching what other creators are doing. Oh, yeah, sort of thing. And there’s a, there’s a creator. His name is Matt Carriker. I’ve followed him for years. He’s had gotten numerous YouTube channels. He’s one of the biggest YouTubers out there. I mean, millions and millions of subscribers. Anyway. He’s retiring from YouTube, and he was giving, in his last video, some advice to people. And it wasn’t just about YouTube, it was just sort of general life advice. And basically what he said was, whatever that thing is that you want to do, just start, right? That’s it. It’s as simple as that. Just, that’s the right start. So he was saying that in con in the context of, like, you know, he just started that channel. He thought it would be something goofy and like fun, and it turned out to be one of the most successful YouTubers of all time, right? So just start. So in the context of this journey, right? We’re all the stuff we’re talking about, about developing, development and becoming, you know, the best version of yourself, and stepping into being a king and all that. Just start.

Scott Woehrer 1:03:58
It makes you more attractive when you are self-possessed, when you know what you want to do when you’re pursuing it with a passion, nothing’s more attractive than someone doing their passion. So if you’re in a relationship and you’re sort of stumbling around, figure out what that is, lead in that direction, lead yourself. It’ll lead the relationship. If you’re not in a relationship at this time, just work on that, and you’ll attract Absolutely it’s just the law of the universe.

Kevin Anthony 1:04:23
All right, Scott, we are out of time, but I want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with us.

Scott Woehrer 1:04:29
Thank you for having me. It was a great, great conversation.

Kevin Anthony 1:04:33
All right, everybody, that’s all the time I have for this episode, and I will see you next week. You

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