Games People Play In Relationship…And Why They Are Bad

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the love lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony, and Céline Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:27
Alright, welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 110. And it’s titled games people play in relationship and why they are bad. You know, we titled it why they are bad, but they’re not actually all bad. And that’s something we’re going to get into as we talk to our special guests that we have. And I find that I so I say this in almost every show that this is going to be really fun topic to talk about. Because, well, part of it is we only ask people on the show if we think they’re going to be fun.

Kevin Anthony 0:59
But here’s another reason why I think this is fun because you and I don’t play games. Correct. And it drives us insane when people do this, like ridiculous relationship games, like, we’ll have to wait three days before I can return that email, and then I got to do and then I can’t tell her this. And I can’t say that I love her until X amount of time and like, all these silly little things that drives us nuts.

Kevin Anthony 1:21
And in fact, when writing this, you were like, I’m not even really sure what games are. I hope they’ll explain it to us. So, so I think we’re a little bit out of our normal range, which is why it’s good. We have a expert guest experts, experts, guests. Yes. So I think it’s gonna be really fun.

Céline Remy 1:45
All right, so, before we introduce our guests, we just want to do a quick shout out to our sponsors power and mastery. If you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed, then check out power in mastery at power and mastery calm It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men.

Céline Remy 2:03
Whether you want to have harder erections last longer or increase your sexual skills, there will be something for you at power and mastery calm. So today, we have two special guests. Hey, I know it’s not the first time but like I said the first time we’ve had a couple Actually no, we’ve had a few couples but it’s more unusual.

Kevin Anthony 2:21
Yeah, we’ll explain this. It’s a different kind of couples couple than we’ve had

Céline Remy 2:26
I know I can’t wait. I can’t wait. So let me read their bio before we like officially get them on here. So straight-shooting authors, Simone Milasas and Brendon Watt have a no sugarcoating approach which we love offers of the bestselling book relationship. Are you sure you want one?

Céline Remy 2:43
They are global speakers and hold relationship done different classes across the world, all about relationships with others, including parents, lovers family, but most importantly, the relationship you have with yourself. Whoo. So welcome Simone. And Brendon to our show.

Brendon Watt 3:02
Thank you.

Simone Milasas 3:04
Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Céline Remy 3:06
You’re welcome. So we kind of read your bio here. And of course, we kind of would love for you to just say like, Hey, who are you? Obviously, our listeners can hear there’s lovely accents there. I’m not the only one for change. So who are you? And how did you become experts on relationships?

Brendon Watt 3:25
Well, I’m in jumping straight away and say, we are not experts on a relationship. We just know how to create one. You know, we’ve done so much like we’ve done so much media based on the book that we did. And the amount of people that have said, You’re a relationship expert, and we went, Okay, I’m a relationship expert.

Brendon Watt 3:48
But we just know how to create one that’s different. The thing with us with the way that we’ve created relationships as it was just different. And the way you guys just talked about Like with, with being different from the relationship, one of the things that shock people the most with the relationship that we had was we never had an argument in eight years. They go: “No, that’s no”. We’re like, yes. Yes, it is.

Simone Milasas 4:27
Yeah, I was just gonna add like there with the relationship expert thing. It’s like we’ve been there done that both of us have had really bad relationships, like, inviting, you know, I mean, I used to invite men into my life, definitely, who judged me in my body. And, you know, they had the same judgments that I had, and I see a lot of people doing that. So they’ll invite someone into their life that has the same judgment so that they go see my judgments are real.

Simone Milasas 4:51
And Brendon was the first person that I was with, that didn’t judge me and didn’t judge my body. And then I was like, wow, what is that? It’s, and it was an energy of kindness and caring and nurturing. And he was just so happy to be around me like that’s, and that energy is such a contribution. So with the expert thing, I gotta say, been there done that we don’t have any place to judge anyone with the relationships that we have chosen.

Simone Milasas 5:17
But what we are, what we did look at with each other. And what we do continue to look at is, you know, if you’re going to create a relationship, make it a really good one. Like, Don’t settle for second best, you’re okay on your own. So you don’t have to have a relationship to be whole, like with all the movies, etc. So if you’re going to do it, like I said, make a great one.

Kevin Anthony 5:38
Yeah, you know, I just Oh, go ahead, please.

Brendon Watt 5:41
Well, I was just gonna add one thing in that I just wanted to say thank you for acknowledging that Simone. Because it’s like that energy of like when we acknowledge somebody for seeing it’s who we are, which is what Simone and I really did it. It kind of like. It expands your being like, you just, you want to be more of you. When somebody says I say the continent you are, I see the no judgment you are I see the gift you are you just go, Oh, I want to be more of that.

Brendon Watt 6:15
Yes, please, in every moment, I want to be more of that because somebody in my life, right? Who cares about me acknowledges that but it’s like, that’s the way that I see relationship can work is we can choose that. But we have to start with us. We have to start liking us.

Kevin Anthony 6:37
Absolutely. And we’re gonna dive more into all of those things that you just said, especially a little bit more towards the end as we start getting into like, okay, here’s all the stuff you shouldn’t do. And then here, like, what should you do? How can it really possibly be? But I want to speak to one thing that you guys said now, which is talking about the expert thing.

Kevin Anthony 6:56
And so, you know, you’re both kinds of saying, wow, you know, it’s not so much We’re really experts. We’ve just had a bunch of relationships that didn’t work. And we learned stuff. And so you know, kind of Here we are, and we figured it out. But that is the essence of what makes somebody an expert. How does somebody become an expert at martial arts? Did they do everything right the entire time? Did they beat every opponent they ever fight?

Kevin Anthony 7:17
No, of course not. They failed thousands of times, literally thousands of times until they figured it out. Right. And I think those are the most valuable experts you could have. Because if you came on here, and you said, every relationship you’ve ever had was perfect. I would start going. They probably have no idea how they got there. Because they didn’t have to figure it out. Right?

Brendon Watt 7:39
Well, you would you wouldn’t want to listen to me though. You wouldn’t want like you wouldn’t want to listen to me. Umm liar.

Simone Milasas 7:50
I love martial arts,  I got 30 in New South Wales and fighting in martial arts when he so I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Kevin Anthony 7:58
Yeah. Very cool. What’s style?

Simone Milasas 8:01
karate.

Kevin Anthony 8:02
Very cool. Awesome. I don’t want to go too far down the martial arts rabbit hole. We’ll take the whole episode just talking about that.

Céline Remy 8:14
There was one thing about your relationship that we thought was very unusual. And we wanted our listener to learn more about because really you guys are exes, and yet you still work together. And it’s very unusual, right? Because in the regular world, people are just like, Oh, it’s my ex. We don’t talk. We don’t we unfriend each other from Facebook or whatever that is, right.

Céline Remy 8:37
And then they’re like, this is it and with you guys like that, well, we have a relationship. It just has changed. And so I’m very curious about like, how you guys make it work and about that transition from being together and then making it work in teaching relationships still together.

Brendon Watt 8:55
That is a really good question. That’s the question that most people don’t ask. And Simone, right, it’s like, I guess what we do is we just honest with each other. Like, we still have moments where we have stuff that comes up when we go, Hey, this is coming up for me. I have an upset, I have a judgment, I have this going on right now. Can you help me? And I think that’s the difference. We just, we expose that we don’t play games, we expose that to each other.

Brendon Watt 9:32
And we knew from the start, we weren’t okay. The relationship is over. For two weeks. I think it was really difficult. After that, two weeks, we went, Okay. We actually want to be friends. how’s this gonna work? That’s what we did. But see in that question, we went, Okay, we need to make it work.

Simone Milasas 9:54
We even had this because we do work together. As you mentioned, there were like events that we were going to have Around the world where, you know, we were either on stage, you know, facilitating seminars, or there’s a lot of people there that we knew. So we had a thing between each other that if one of us was uncomfortable, we would text each other, and we would go outside and talk and we’d go somewhere because we knew how many people were projecting points of view at both of us have, that we were not together in a relationship anymore, or that we should be or if one of us was talking to another girl or another guy, etc.

Simone Milasas 10:28
So we even had each other’s back at that moment, we would text each other and go, Hey, I think I need to chat. We were like, We were mucking around saying we need a safety word. So you know, if I say this, let’s go outside and talk because we still had this honoring of each other of that we, I mean, even yesterday, we were having it was you know, we’re opening up we’re starting a business in Australia as one does when you know, Brandon’s in Mexico, and I’m in Australia, and it came up and I got a little cranky and then we spoke And then I went, Okay, cool.

Simone Milasas 11:02
I’m over it and Brandon text me later. And he goes, I love how quickly you get over stuff. But we weren’t, we’re not willing to sit in something that doesn’t create more ease for each other. We will talk about anything. And I think that’s, like the essence of what we’re talking about with this show is there’s no game playing, even when you’re in a relationship. You finished a relationship. It’s like, what’s up for you?

Brendon Watt 11:23
And that’s, that is that has been the essence of our friendship. But so the thing I want to add to that is how do you get to that? Because most people would hear that and go, well, yeah, but I that, that sounds wonderful, but how do I get to it? You get to decide from this place. So you have to be willing, to be honest with you. Do I want this person in my life? Yes or no? Yes. Okay, what am I willing to contribute to their life so that we start having this different interaction with each Either, and I and what I look at, and especially lightly is it’s like that’s what we all need on the planet right now. We need to be willing to have that connection with each other.

Kevin Anthony 12:13
Absolutely. And I love hearing you guys say that because I’ve actually had several similar situations in my life like I had one partner that was until Céline has eclipsed that might be my longest relationship.

Brendon Watt 12:28
I love the way you did that. That was perfect. You are a very good man.

Céline Remy 12:35
I second that.

Kevin Anthony 12:37
But I had a very similar feeling when she and I were separating. And I really asked that exact same question. Like, I want this person in my life. So how do I go about doing that? And we’ve been good friends. I mean, this is going on 10-12 years ago at this point, and we’re actually we’ve been business partners now in a separate project for a number of years. And we work together every single week. So I love to see that there are other people out there that that understand it, that we’re able to actually do it and can be that example for everybody else.

Simone Milasas 13:12
Yeah, and I’m gonna say we went, we also went through the stage of going, you know, like I did the cranky thing because Brendon broke the relationship up with me. And I did that. Oh, my goodness, I can’t believe he’s breaking up with me, you know? And then, and then I did look at it. Because I played that victim role, not for very long. I do things really quickly. And then I looked at, oh, he’s actually correct. It’s like our relationship wasn’t moving forward in this.

Simone Milasas 13:38
What we had always created was something greater. It was more about this maintenance and we started creating this perfect relationship, perfect reality, perfect life that other people would look at and go, Oh, look, they’ve now got the three-story house on the beach, you know, blah, blah, blah, which doesn’t match the energy of what either of us is asking for.

Simone Milasas 13:57
So Brendan was the sensible one that actually did that and chose and then and then but what I was going to say is we did look at all the everything we owned and we’re like let’s sell everything and split everything and had that you know we did that Trump trauma and drama but not for very long and then we looked at each other and went okay Hang on a second. We’ve created a lot of wealth together we’ve created a lot of things why would we destroy that as well?

Simone Milasas 14:22
What if we actually kept creating the wealth-creating the business creating the possibilities together? We just went no longer living together, no longer lovers no longer like that. So you get to choose and not sort of lump everything together. Like I love that, that you’re still partners with your ex as well in business. So why not?

Brendon Watt 14:42
That’s that what you just said right there like but that is such a huge point. Like to for breakups with people. It’s like what you just said this man, it’s like we didn’t really stop doing anything. Apart from Being lovers and living together. You know, we kept creating, we probably create more now than we ever did before, but it’s like, my, my sense is, is this is the way that all of us can create together. If we’re willing for all of that for all of us to not have it be such a separation with the relationship.

Brendon Watt 15:26
It’s not well, now you’ve upset me, so I’m leaving you. You know we weren’t Okay. So now our relationship is done. Let’s keep grinding together. And that most people look at that and go, that is impossible.

Céline Remy 15:42
While you are a tribute to that possibility, and so it’s Kevin and I’m sure other people so it’s a perfect vision for whoever’s listening today to hold that because again, I think the love is always there. Things just shift and then you keep what works in a relationship and you keep working at it and making even better.

Kevin Anthony 16:01
Yeah. So yeah, what I would love to do so I think that the listeners have already gotten so much value. Like, I feel like we just did an entire show on what they call around here conscious uncoupling right? And I was like, how do you transition out of a relationship and do it like to mature adults and keep the parts that are good, get rid of the parts that are bad, fantastic and amazing.

Kevin Anthony 16:23
And I do before we run out of time, want to make sure that we steer back over into the games part, which is what we have teased our listeners with already. And any of the stuff that we’re talking about in where it fits in, we’ll bring it in there. So one of the things that we wanted to do, and this came from Celine going well, I’m not even really sure what it means playing relationship games is if you guys could maybe define to our listeners, what do we mean when we say people play games and relationships?

Brendon Watt 16:51
Well, what I would say is, am I trying to get this relationship right? And if that’s a yes, then you’re playing again. You are straight-up playing a game. You and so what I would suggest to people go Okay, so am I. So am I judging any part of this relationship? What parts of this relationship? Am I judging? every single part of the relationship that you judging becomes a game? Chris, you have to either win or lose

Kevin Anthony 17:24
the zero-sum game.

Simone Milasas 17:26
Yeah,

Brendon Watt 17:28
Definitely a zero-sum game. Definitely. But it’s like in that it’s like if you recognize that because it’s not even about changing it. If you recognize, okay, I’m in a zero-sum game right now. If you acknowledge it, then you can enjoy the game. What most of us do is we suffer the game. And we go, Oh, why is my life not working? Why can I not get out of this? Because we don’t acknowledge what we’re choosing, but then acknowledge the judgment. If we acknowledge the judgment, then we can choose out of it.

Simone Milasas 18:02
And to me, the way I would describe the game too is there’s like, it’s so much lying that you’re doing to yourself. If you have to create a relationship based on lies, then what are you doing it for? I also want to add though, there’s a difference between lies and manipulation. I think it’s really fun if you are manipulating your partner and I’m sure both of you do that in different ways.

Simone Milasas 18:27
And but when you’re even aware of it, and you, you acknowledge it like there’s this, this will tell a story about Yeah, I was told that say we have one brain. So Brendon is a fabulous cook, and an amazing cook, right. And he was always cooking these bras etc. and want you to know, freezing them and putting them in Tupperware dishes and so that we could use them for sauces, etc later. So I go shopping one day and come home and he’s on the couch watching TV. I was like Brendon, I’m so excited. And I said, Look what I bought, and I had all these Tupperware. Right, it’s tucked away.

Simone Milasas 19:01
Brendon, we looked at me and he was like, Oh, yeah, great, with that energy, and I went, second, that wasn’t much fun. I went, Okay, and I said, Can we do that again? He said, what he may know. What if I go back out, walk back in and I tell you about this and you get really excited. That would be fun for me. back out and came back in as Brendon, you guys.

Simone Milasas 19:21
Yes, honey. I was like, look what I bought you and he was like, oh my god. tuckaway just went, Oh, my God, so excited about it. And I knew what he was doing. He was doing it for me. But we were laughing so hard because it is it’s Tupperware… I wanted him to go.

Brendon Watt 19:39
Yes. Can I jump in on that? say that’s the difference between the game of relationship and play with relationship? two completely different realities. And one is the willingness to look at what’s gonna work. The other is the lies of it.

Kevin Anthony 19:55
Absolutely. I’m glad that you brought that up because that was actually one of our questions is to have you guys expected Blame the difference because most people when they hear the word manipulation, think of a negative context, right?

Kevin Anthony 20:06
So we don’t do any negative manipulation stuff at all, but we will do what we would call positive influencing, which is, you know, gently guiding our partner in the direction that we would like them to go. But by being totally upfront about it, so I always know when she wants me to do something, and she’s trying to like coerce me to do it. It’s totally upfront. I know what Yeah, yeah. Okay, sure.

Simone Milasas 20:34
That sounds I like when I used to say, Brendon knows what we should do and you’re like, you mean that I should do and I was like, yeah, I’m glad you got that pronoun. Correct.

Brendon Watt 20:45
But that’s, that’s the thing. Like if we actually got to the truth of it, that’s the thing is when somebody is willing to contribute to what they can say is, that’s going to create more. That’s the manipulation. It’s not what we think it is, which is why we stopped contributing to each other in relationships.

Simone Milasas 21:07
Well, there’s a great manipulation story we have as well. Yes, I’m so glad you brought that up, Kevin because people do look at manipulation as bad and it’s not. It’s like, if you’re doing it, as you say, it’s like, you know, inviting them, it’s like, seducing someone into what it is you desire. And there was at one point with Brendon and I wanted to have sex and he didn’t want to that night and, and I went, hmm…

Simone Milasas 21:32
So I went, I actually really would like to have sex. So what am I going to do here? And I said to him, What if I pay you for sex? Because really no way. Yeah. What if I pay you anyway? Okay. So I ended up paying him $500 and I left it on the bedside table as well.

Kevin Anthony 21:50
That is awesome.

Simone Milasas 21:51
It was great. It was absolutely awesome. And of course, it was so attentive to me because I’m paying him but what I loved about it too, is he had this fire hundred dollars and at the time, he wasn’t earning like nearly as much money is what he is now. So I was supporting a relationship,

Brendon Watt 22:06
not not nearly as much money, I was earning no money

Kevin Anthony 22:10
She was being kind she didn’t. Thanks for stepping up and admitting that.

Simone Milasas 22:17
It worked in two ways. So one, it’s like I ended up getting, you know, having great sex. And two, he had this $500 that he could do whatever he wanted with that was just his. He went out and did you got a mess out of a friend of ours. And then he went and bought dinner and a nice bottle of wine for both of us. So it was so nice to see him have money and he could choose to do what he wanted to do with it. This is one thing that I would talk about in a lot of our seminars, is because quite often in a relationship, there’s one person who earns more money than the other.

Simone Milasas 22:48
And a lot of the time nowadays it is the female. And I’ve had so many conversations with females about business like if you want them to be there pay for it, like just because they’re not earning as much money as you and would also offer that tool it’s like offer to pay them for something, even if it’s sex, it’s Can I say, if you haven’t paid for sex with your partner, give it a go. It is highly recommended for different energy.

Céline Remy 23:13
Awesome. Well, we haven’t done that yet. So we haven’t

Kevin Anthony 23:18
like we haven’t. But you know, I did. I did have a partner once years ago, who did earn well, so she earned a lot more money because I had gotten laid off from my job and she wanted to go travel all these places, and I’m like, I have zero income and you want to go spend a month in Thailand. I’m like, I’m not sure how that’s gonna work. And she just like, I’ll pay for it. And I was like, Okay, let’s do it.

Kevin Anthony 23:43
So yeah, there’s totally nothing wrong with that. I think that’s actually pretty cool. I would caution our audience however, not to be careful with the paying for sex thing and don’t turn your sexual relationship into a constant monetary transaction. But I love the story because The story’s awesome.

Brendon Watt 24:03
I think that the story was also more about like, it wasn’t about the sex. Because it was like, at the time in my life, I was feeling less than, like big time as a man and see as a man like when you’re not making money, and you’re not contributing to a relationship. It’s really hard to fill up a man. Really hard to fill up a man. So the thing with what Simone just said was, she was willing to contribute to me financially so that I, it boosted me up. I went, Oh, I’m a man again.

Brendon Watt 24:45
And it gave me the courage to choose more in my life, which was the thing that I was grateful for. And that one moment like you would hear that story and go, like, I don’t know where to go with that or don’t know what to do with it. It changed my whole life. Hmm. And this is the thing that we do with choice when we’re willing to look at how’s it going to create a different future.

Brendon Watt 25:09
We not only change our lives, but we change everybody else’s. And at that moment, she changed mine. So that’s where I would put that story out there for people to hear it from.

Céline Remy 25:20
I love it. I love that she was so graceful in how she did that because it is such a fine line, especially when it comes to money. And women earning more and like not crushing a man’s ego or self-esteem and doing is so nice. So kudos for you for doing it so well and like empowering him and kudos for you for receiving it because I see a lot of people also have issues with that, where they go like, I can’t receive that.

Brendon Watt 25:51
I know I’m a man. So I know I’m always wrong. So it’s

Céline Remy 26:02
I love this. So we’ve got a few more questions. But before that, we’re going to do a quick invitation for all of you listeners to join our program here. So if you are a committed couple who is stuck in a rut and just going through the daily motion instead of connecting the way you used to, and you are tired of mechanical sex that like spontaneity and fun and you don’t want to live a life of average, then Kevin and I would like to invite you to join our highly sexed power couple Platinum program.

Céline Remy 26:31
So if you give us 90 days, we will help you bring the passion back between the sheets and be synched up sexually so that you can thrive with more purpose and passion in life. And you can find more about our program at Celine remy.com forward slash passion.

Kevin Anthony 26:47
Alright, so we had another question that we thought might be kind of interesting, which is, do you think men and women play games differently?

Brendon Watt 26:57
Yes,

Simone Milasas 26:58
Brendon?

Simone Milasas 27:01
Yes, absolutely they do. Yeah. Women, they think don’t it’s then I would love it if women could stop doing subtext the way they do subtext. You know, when you hear a woman say when the man says, you know, you know, is something wrong is what’s up and she says, No, nothing, I’m fine, which basically means I’m not fine, but you need to work out exactly what’s bugging me and then you need to solve it to a good

Brendon Watt 27:25
This is a sticky conversation.

Simone Milasas 27:28
Yeah. It’s like the way women use subtext. Can I tell you, women, if you’re listening, you think that subtext is gonna create something great out it never, ever, ever create something greater? Men don’t get the subtext. No. And then he knows, it’s like, they hear you’re fine. They hear you’re fine. Yet they’re like, but what is this and I was talking to a friend of mine recently, who was married for 28 years.

Simone Milasas 27:55
And he said, Simone, I felt like I was walking on eggshells for 20 He’s just actually recently divorced. And the amount of times that he likes basically he said he was tiptoeing around because he said, I would wake up in the morning and just go, what have I done wrong? Where am I wrong today? Because of the way that she was talking to him? And I don’t know, I think I can say it because I’m a woman. And it’s like, Please,

Brendon Watt 28:19
Thank God, you can say it.

Simone Milasas 28:21
If you can come out of the subtext and actually say, what’s up? And I know a man would way prefer that directness as well of saying what it is, I mean, like, one of the things we were talking about before is when I used to say, you know what, we should do this and Brandon would say, you mean I should don’t do this? And I’d be like, yes, like check the pronoun. The pronoun wait means you wait. And then, but then also like Brendan is very, very good, you know, around the house handyman build things.

Simone Milasas 28:50
He’s very manly like that. And at one stage, I was asking him about different things, and he wasn’t doing it. And so what I did was I went out and hired a handyman And then he was like, You hired a handyman? I was like, Yeah, because we need this stuff done. And that also is going to create a greater moment in your relationship because the man goes:” Oh, I don’t actually have to do this, there is another way that this could be solved.” So well.

Brendon Watt 29:14
Well, they also go, I’m not needed. And when a man says, I’m not needed, that will actually reach further into what they can contribute to the relationship.

Kevin Anthony 29:25
Yeah, because we want to be needed.

Brendon Watt 29:28
Well, we want Well, we want to be needed, but we also want to contribute. And I think that’s the difference is we’ve misidentified, misapplied need, as our desire to contribute like we actually like if you’re going to have a relationship that works. You actually desire to contribute like you want to make somebody’s life better.

Céline Remy 29:52
Yeah, we are all nodding heads.

Brendon Watt 29:54
Exactly. Yeah. And that’s the thing is it’s like but, but say when we do this thing of neighbors We go I want to be needed well when we do that we’ve already decided that we’ve we have a lack somewhere with the relationship, like we’ve gone, oh, I want to be needed so I lacked this in the relationship so please need me to need you and that doesn’t necessarily create much

Céline Remy 30:20
well and that neediness especially coming from the men, I think is a massive libido killer. I mean, a needy man will turn me off I like anytime I’m like, No, I don’t need it. So there’s a fine line to about how you approach like being needy. Well, there’s, I think

Kevin Anthony 30:35
there’s a difference between being needy and being want to be needed. In other words, from my point of view, the way I say I see it is like, I like the fact that you need me to do stuff and I know you can do a lot of this stuff on your own, but the fact that you’ll be like, Hey, can you do this for me because either you’re better at it or I just don’t like doing it or whatever the reason is, so I like that.

Kevin Anthony 30:59
That It gives me a purpose in the relationship gives me the stuff to do you know, and I do like to contribute also so I love that reframe of yours because it’s kind of what I was thinking in my head when I said we’d like to be needed but the way you explained it was much better, which is that we do like to contribute. So I like the fact that you need me to do stuff and that I get to contribute which is very different than saying, oh, but you never do this and I need you to do that and I really wish you would do this that that’s being needy and that’s a whole nother unsexy thing

Simone Milasas 31:30
Yeah, I think I was gonna say there’s a fine line between need and needy and I actually even like a man who needs me but the second he gets needy, as you said, you’re like, Oh, no, it’s like nobody wants that needy energy around. But the energy of need it’s like there’s a contribution is an element of interaction and engagement. That is like has this a lightness to it in your body and with you, it’s like what, to me, that’s why you step into creation more could awesome together.

Brendon Watt 31:59
Yeah. Can I add one thing in there with that? And I’m not quite sure if I can put this in here now, but I’m going to because that’s the way that I work. Imagine a sex life where you didn’t need anything but you actually contributed to each other. Imagine a sex life was sex was all about contribution between two people. And it was never about need ever about the need for orgasm or ejaculation.

Brendon Watt 32:26
It was never about a need of time, or how it works. But it was from a space of how much fun can we have? That’s a different reality with a relationship.

Kevin Anthony 32:40
Absolutely. And you’re really speaking our language because that’s exactly what we teach people. And I am so glad you put that in here on the show because I want people to hear it from other people than just us.

Céline Remy 32:54
They’ve heard it already. 109 times 100 today. So

Kevin Anthony 32:57
here’s what people say people go well sure. That’s Find that works for you guys. Right? And it’s like, well, you guys have such a great relationship, it works for you. And that’s why it’s so important for other people like you guys to come on and say the same thing. Right? Because it’s not just us.

Brendon Watt 33:12
Well, one of the things I learned was, it’s like, growing up, like, growing up as a man in Australia in with the friends that I had, at the time, it was all about sex was about force. It was about judgment. It was about all these things and, and I pretty much got to a time in my life where I just spent if, if that’s six, I don’t want it. I don’t want to do it anymore. Like cuz, it’s not my reality with sex. My reality was sex is it needs to be contributory.

Brendon Watt 33:43
It needs to be gentle. And nice, the fun. It needs to be all that just good stuff. But it’s like but nobody ever taught me that and that’s what a lot of us do sex. We think that okay, this is what I’ve been told with sex. That’s what sex is. But we could change that right now, if we’re willing to ask the question and go, okay. So I’ve been total this, I’ve been shown that this is what sex is, but what’s my reality with it?

Simone Milasas 34:12
And what my reality would say, Well, one of the things that you taught me, Brendon as well is, I definitely had the point of view, if you’re in a relationship, that if a relationship that is classified as good, you’re meant to have a certain amount of sex, you know, a week or a day or etc, whatever that is for you. And then at one stage, Brendon chat, we chatted about it.

Simone Milasas 34:31
And he said to me, he said to me, You do realize this relationship is more than just sex to me, is such a, I went, Oh, my goodness, what am I going to do with that? Because of the sex I could handle, and it’s like, but now he’s actually looking at me as this being and what can we could I wanted to be with you.

Brendon Watt 34:48
Yeah, no, yes. Yeah.

Simone Milasas 34:50
And then and then the other thing you said to me, which changed my life was, you said, How often do two people have sex when two people actually desire it? Most of the time people are having sex when one person is doing it to please the other. And that so much speaks to the energy of what you were just talking about Brandon is when two people are having sex and they both desire it. It’s way more fun. And way more. Yes.

Kevin Anthony 35:15
Yeah. And I’ll add to that, too, when they drop the agenda of having to try to get somewhere with it, whether it’s ejaculation, orgasm, or whatever, and you can just be in it for the fun of being in it. And for the sort of giving and receiving circle that happens because the more you give, the more you receive, especially as a guy, the more you give her the more energy she’s going to give back to you that that dynamic that’s created. That’s when it’s really the best.

Brendon Watt 35:42
Well, I wouldn’t say it from it’s like. I would say it from a little bit of a different place than say because what we do with the whole given receive is we we we kind of make it we kind of just make it a one way straight like oh, Give this and then I’m going to receive more and we get like that. And, and I get that because I’ve done that a lot too. But it’s like, but for me, what I’ve found works dynamically in my life is when I’m just willing to give and I don’t expect anything in return. Not one thing.

Kevin Anthony 36:17
Absolutely. And that’s, that’s really actually what I’m getting out, which is that I go, Okay, I give you three, you give me three, I give you four. But as a guy in a sexual relationship, the more energy I give to her, the more I focus on her, the more I give to her, the more she just naturally does it back without any expectation. Without me asking for anything. It just creates its own natural flow. That’s kind of what I was referring to.

Simone Milasas 36:46
Yeah. It’s like instead of giving take it’s gifting and receiving and you see so many people in a relationship that with the point of view of like, okay, so if I go down on you, that means you go down on me, it’s like, what if it wasn’t like that? What if it was more like, hey, I’d love to go down on Right now, and then that’s it.

Simone Milasas 37:01
No, it’s like and you’re receiving in the gifting, rather than this, like, okay, your turn my turn, like exactly what you were referring to Kevin, and it’s like, no, there’s something so much greater in that gifting and receiving energy.

Céline Remy 37:13
So, okay, I feel like we usually have the last question that we give. But since we’re talking about sex, I’m gonna ask it now, before you give your last piece of advice. So we want to know like talking about sex? Yeah, who doesn’t, right? We want to know, what is your best sexual talents?

Brendon Watt 37:34
Simone?

Simone Milasas 37:40
Should we? Should we say others?

Kevin Anthony 37:42
Oh, well, yeah, maybe.

Brendon Watt 37:47
We can do whatever because I like being different.

Simone Milasas 37:51
I would say actually, I’m gonna actually say for both of us, then it might sound like a cliche, but the ability to And the willingness to touch, like each other’s body or another body with absolutely no judgment of what is going to happen next like not thinking that anything is perverted. It’s just a choice of what you can choose next because I see so many people stop their sexual relationship based on oh my god is that provided an insightful owning your point of view makes it perverted.

Brendon Watt 38:21
While knowing everything is covered, yeah, that would be it’s like say, for most of us, what we do is at sea for my sexuality and I also know Simone because I know her very well is our sexual realities up beyond what most people could hear. We couldn’t actually put it into a conversation. Okay, we’ll have you back on the show again soon. We want to hear about

Simone Milasas 38:52
like whips and chains in the basement and like everyone’s heads…

Brendon Watt 38:56
No, but I but see the thing that you started with And I just want to touch on this really quickly before we get off is you said smiled and said no judgment. And what most of us do is it’s like we, we keep this sexual reality that’s true for us hidden a little bit. Like we got, oh, I’d like to try that I would really like to give that a go, but we don’t actually bring it into our world. And I would say, that’s the difference with summarizing, we’re both willing to go. No, I like to try that. How do I try that?

Simone Milasas 39:27
And in also saying that too, it’s like, knowing when sex doesn’t it can be so gentle and so nurturing and, you know, doesn’t have to last forever and it could last forever. And it doesn’t have to be always this, you know, exploration of something different yet allowing that to show up. Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 39:48
It certainly makes things fun and interesting.

Céline Remy 39:51
So, thank you so much for sharing that. What we’d love for you guys to share is if you have like advice around like our for our listeners and especially like if, if there was a game they needed to stop right away or something around there like what would be one piece of advice like they need to hear this and

Kevin Anthony 40:12
You can only give them one. Here it is,

Brendon Watt 40:14
I would say, enjoy everything you choosing right now so that you can figure out if that’s truly what you desire to choose.

Simone Milasas 40:24
And I would say ask for what it is you desire in bed. It’s gonna make it easier for both of you.

Céline Remy 40:30
Mm-hmm. This is juicy.

Céline Remy 40:35
Simone, this has been a fantastic conversation

Kevin Anthony 40:37
Way too short. I wish we had an hour.

Céline Remy 40:40
Where can our listeners find out more about you because you have your book you have classes you travel I mean when you can travel again. But anyway, like where can they find more often? She’s got the book short if you watch it on my desk, yeah, relationship. Are you sure you want one?

Simone Milasas 41:01
Yeah, the website relationship baby show you one calm and also to relationships have done different calm and we’ve got some videos on there etc we call the no sugarcoating vlogs because we talk about what’s up and it’s like, we don’t sugarcoat it.

Simone Milasas 41:16
So yeah, there are lots of places you can find us there. Awesome. So you can also go to Instagram @relationshipdonedifferent. Also, the Instagram handle for Brendon is Brendon Watt with an O and also in mind, Simone, Milasas lots of stuff happening.

Céline Remy 41:31
Okay, we’ll put all the links in the descriptions I mean, obviously you need to go check them out. And they’ve got tons of more things to share there and

Kevin Anthony 41:40
There were so many golden nuggets in there like some of them could have been whole shows themselves. Thank you guys so much for coming on the show with us.

Brendon Watt 41:52
Thank you for having us. You guys are amazing.

Simone Milasas 41:54
Yeah, thank you for being like allowing the world it’s really refreshing. So thank you.

Kevin Anthony 42:00
You’re welcome. All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode and we will see you next week. We hope you liked this episode of the love lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 42:19
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at selling remi.com forward slash vault. That’s clnemy.com forward slash vault.

Kevin Anthony 42:33
Thanks for listening.

Céline Remy 42:34
And remember, you’re amazing