Accepting Yourself And Coming Out As Kinky

Kevin Anthony 0:09
All right, welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 139. And it’s titled accepting yourself and coming out as kinky. I think all of our episodes are fun. So I say this a lot. But I think this is going to be a really fun episode, we’ve covered areas of kink before, we’ve covered some areas of BDSM.

Kevin Anthony 0:31
Before we’ve given you our take on it, we had somebody who was into BDSM on it, but we’ve never had basically a professional in the world of kink and BDSM. And so that’s going to be really exciting today because we’re going to get to talk to somebody who this is what he does for a living. And I think it’s going to be relevant to a lot of people partially because you came up with some data for us here on that.

Céline Remy 1:00
Yeah, I was doing some research. And apparently, kink is way more common than you’d expect. research showing that about half of all people have had some kind of freaky sex at some point, and a whopping 84% saying that they’d like a little bit more kink in their lives. So if you think you’re free, you’re kinky, or something’s unusual, obviously, the numbers don’t lie, you’re not

Kevin Anthony 1:23
4% that is large. Now keep in mind, right? There’s I’m sure we’ll get into this once we really start the conversation but there can be a broad range of what’s considered a kink, right? So doesn’t mean you got to be strapped to a cross and you know, taken through an entire scene to be kinky. There are other things you could potentially do that fall in the realm of cake.

Céline Remy 1:44
So I am excited. First, we’ll just do a quick little sponsored break and then we will introduce today’s guest. So if you want to join a secret club of men who are great and bad, then check out power and mastery at power and mastery.com. It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men. Whether you want to have harder erections last longer or increase your sexual skills. There is something for you at power and mastery.com.

Céline Remy 2:11
So today we have Sir Ezra, he is the headmaster of the house of Algos, the Director of Education at sanctuary LAX studios, and sex coach at what’s in my kinky.com. So welcome, Ezra.

Sir Ezra 2:26
Hey, thanks for having me.

Céline Remy 2:29
You’re welcome. So number one, I’m really excited because you know, when we think about dominatrix and dom play.

Céline Remy 2:38
I think a lot of people will think about the woman in her heels and with her, like what for whatever this thing is called. So today, I’m really excited to have a man on the show because it is changing how people think about kink, what they think about it being a DOM, like what it looks like.

Céline Remy 3:00
And hopefully, we’re gonna take our listeners through quite a journey. So let’s start at the beginning a little bit with your own journey. And we want to hear more about your sexual journey because I know that you weren’t always fully kinky out there. Maybe you were always kinky, but you didn’t always admit to yourself,

Kevin Anthony 3:19
or the outside world.

Sir Ezra 3:22
Absolutely. Well, I mean, I definitely was always kinky, I can remember being very exploratory, let’s just say I played a lot of doctors, you know, early on, but, and I would actually describe a relationship I had in high school as master-slave only based on the power dynamic that was organically established, even though at the time I didn’t have the words to describe it, or really understand what it was.

Sir Ezra 3:52
But we were always really very exploratory. As soon as I started having sexual relationships, there was a lot of exploration, like, you know, what else can we try? What else can we try? And I always gravitated towards dominant and submissive relationships. Honestly, I don’t even know how I figured out how I found it so organically in the past, but I did.

Sir Ezra 4:16
And at a certain point in my 20s, I said, Okay, well, childish things aside, you know, time to be a grown-up and do what grown-ups do. And that was really, you know, maybe the biggest mistake I’ve made in my life, I don’t know it all. It all comes together to who you become. So I don’t know if a mistake is the right word, but sometimes it feels like, you know, go ahead.

Kevin Anthony 4:39
Yeah, I want to just pause you there for a moment because I’m curious. What was it? What was the influence that was telling you that you need to disorder to do what adults do and stop being exploratory? Like what was the influence was the society was it, parents? Was it girlfriends boyfriends like what was it that made you go, Okay, wait a minute? This is childish stuff and I need to be an adult.

Sir Ezra 5:03
I think it’s it’s a whole bunch of things. You know, I mean, I identify as sadistic, and there’s not a lot of good role models for, you know, well-adapted sadistic behavior, right? So there’s part of me that thought, okay, like, this has been fun. But if I’m gonna keep doing this, it’s gonna make me a worse person.

Céline Remy 5:26
Can we give a definition of sadism? For our listeners who are not quite clear, just so we can all be on the same page?

Sir Ezra 5:34
Yeah, absolutely. So I would, in the broadest sense, define sadism as, like the Germans shout and Freida, the joy of others misery, right. But in the context of sexual orientation, it is specifically sexual pleasure from someone else’s discomfort or pain or, or anguish.

Sir Ezra 5:58
And, you know, it’s consensual, it’s all consensual. And so the counterpart of the sadist is the masochist. Right? And so they’re these people who enjoy being uncomfortable or in pain, or tortured, or, you know, in some kind of predicament.

Kevin Anthony 6:15
So that’s a pretty fine line to walk, isn’t it? Right? Because you could very easily take it too far into an unhealthy realm, wouldn’t you say?

Sir Ezra 6:28
Yeah, you absolutely can. And what’s really dangerous is that it can often look the same from the outside. And so in BDSM, education, we spend a lot of time working on differentiating abuse from BDSM. So I think the best way to understand it is power over versus power with.

Sir Ezra 6:53
So if you and I roleplay, police officer and prisoner, right, our police officer and defender, right, so I’m role-playing, we have chosen to do this thing together. And so I’m actually even if I’m playing the police officer, and you’re playing the, you know, offender, we’re doing it together. And we are, I’m empowering you and you are empowering me.

Sir Ezra 7:19
So we both have more power for doing the thing, whereas a real police officer is going to take power away from somebody, you put them in handcuffs against their will, you’ve taken away their facility to move, right. So power over versus power with that can be a very fine line. But it’s once you understand it, you can definitely tow that line.

Kevin Anthony 7:44
Cool. And I just wanted to make sure that the audience kind of understood that difference there. Because there could be people listening going, whoa, that’s like way over the line. So I’m glad that we did a little aside there to sort of defining that and explain to people that there is actually a line there. And that although it may appear one way if you just were to walk into a room and see it happening in the right circumstances, not actually that way.

Céline Remy 8:11
Well, oh, sorry.

Sir Ezra 8:12
It’s just gonna say its masochism is super common. So if you ever enjoyed getting a spanking, you’re on that spectrum of masochism. If you ever enjoyed spicy food, you’re on that spectrum.

Kevin Anthony 8:25
Because you don’t know what he’s talking about

Sir Ezra 8:27
hot. It’s not a flavor hot is a sensation. sensation.

Céline Remy 8:32
Oh, very interesting. So see your kink here, then you thought Kevin?

Kevin Anthony 8:35
Yeah, well, so are you. We learned that a couple of years ago.

Céline Remy 8:40
I want to go back to that journey of your Israel were so you were like, I got to grow up, I got to do the right thing. And to you, it looks like if I remember was like getting married, kind of having like the house. I think even the kids like so let’s pick it up. Maybe from there. So you’re making that decision, you’re going into like this, what everybody expects of you to have the marriage and the family life.

Sir Ezra 9:04
Yeah. And, you know, I don’t want to get too personal with my ex-wife, but there was always like a conflict of the kind of sex and the frequency of sex we were having. And, you know, it was just like, Okay, well, that’s marriage, right? You just, it’s a compromise nobody’s happy.

Céline Remy 9:24
That’s not a good marriage.

Sir Ezra 9:27
Fortunately, there’s a lot of examples of that. And so that was readily available, whereas, you know, a healthy, dominant-submissive relationship was maybe not available, right. But, um, but yeah, it was about, you know, just conforming and being part of what you know, have done the thing investing in a family investing in, you know, a property. And I did that and I was miserable. You know,

Kevin Anthony 9:56
I sort of understanding that because this is, this is Not really the same thing. But I remember being in my 20s. And I, you know, I had long hair and I had worked as a lifeguard on the beach and like total, you know, like beach bum kind of thing, even after I had graduated college, and then I somehow I was like, I need to get a real job.

Kevin Anthony 10:18
And you know, I was I cut my hair short and like, got real jobs in the corporate world, and I fucking hated it. hated it. So yeah, just kind of understand what you’re saying in the sense of society is telling you that you should do things a certain way. And, you know, when we’re younger, we haven’t explored maybe enough yet, or we’re not confident enough to trust our own inner guidance.

Kevin Anthony 10:43
And so we kind of cave to the pressure. We go out, and we do that. Then sometimes we’re miserable. Right. And I actually want to say that I applaud you for realizing that this was not the life that you wanted and changing it.

Sir Ezra 11:02
Yeah. Well, and thank goodness only took me a few years as opposed to, you know, decades, right? I could have figured this out when I was 50.

Kevin Anthony 11:12
Or never, you could have never figured it out, like a lot of people and they just suffer their whole lives.

Sir Ezra 11:16
Yeah, yeah.

Céline Remy 11:17
So tell us more about how did you discover yourself in BDSM. So you’re in this relationship, you follow the path, you’re realizing you are miserable. You’ve always had attractions towards BDSM.

Céline Remy 11:31
So I’m imagining now there’s this conflict, right? where you’re like, Okay, you’re not happy with this relationship? There’s this thing you’re like, how do you go from there of like, how do you get to explore to like, embrace it fully?

Sir Ezra 11:44
Yeah, well, and I have to give, I have to give my ex-wife a lot of credit because so we acknowledge that this was a conflict. You know, I, she thought I was gonna settle down, you know, and I thought she was gonna open up. And we both went the direction we thought the other person was gonna go, you know, I opened up more, and she settled down more, you know, but we realized this was a problem.

Sir Ezra 12:13
I broached. I originally would be like, oh, let’s do this thing. Let’s try this thing. Let’s do this thing. And she was, she had some enthusiasm to start with. But then that enthusiasm diminished over time. And with a certain point, I realized that it was, you know, we were never going to get to where I was hoping we would get to.

Sir Ezra 12:33
And so I did, I did some research. And I found like, kinky. Like, a kinky therapist, who, in the original conversation, realized that I was kinky and probably Polly, right? And so she says, like, why don’t you open up the marriage? And I was like, she’ll never go for it. Like, I’m totally down. But don’t ever go for it. And, and so we met in person eventually. And she totally wasn’t into it. She was like, How could you do this to me?

Sir Ezra 13:08
Can we still have a child? What, you know? Yeah. So, but it wasn’t a betrayal in my mind, right? Because it was, it was the thing that could have saved the marriage. Right, we could still maybe have been partners, if she could have dealt with that. But, but she just couldn’t. And that’s fine. You know, we all have our limitations. But because we realized that this was such a critical issue, we sort of seeking a solution.

Sir Ezra 13:36
And so we actually began exploring the BDSM community together, you know, she would come to classes, we would go to munches, we would do things together. And, and then eventually, we actually became what I would call play poly, where we were the only we were our only partners in the bedroom.

Sir Ezra 13:58
But out outside of the bedroom, I was allowed to do certain things as I could just, you know, spank somebody that she had met, that she approved of, or something. It was pretty rigid, but I did my best to follow it. And at a certain point, she was just like, you know, I’m done exploring. I just like, well, I’m

Céline Remy 14:18
I am just starting

Sir Ezra 14:19
This is great. I’m not I mean, and again, I can’t fault her for not being able to accept all of me, because neither did I like when we met I hadn’t accepted that is a really important part of me. But it’s, it’s amazing how being denied something can illustrate to you how important that thing is, right? So I didn’t realize how critical sexual exploration was to who I am as a person. You know,

Kevin Anthony 14:47
that’s Hill. That’s classic. You don’t know how good something is until you don’t have it anymore. Right. Or until you realize that you have been wanting it and have never had it, but there was a great segue in there. Which were you talking about? How? How could she accept you, all of you if you didn’t accept all of you?

Kevin Anthony 15:08
And I really want to explore that, because that’s definitely one of the main topics of this episode is, what did you do? How did you go about that path of learning to accept yourself?

Sir Ezra 15:21
Well, I mean, it meant meeting people who were farther along on a similar path than me. You know, it was, you know, as I mentioned before, there aren’t a lot of models like you can look at, like Angelina Jolie and Billy Bob Thornton as like, they’re definitely kinky. Right? Like didn’t? Didn’t they carry around like a vial of each other’s blood on a necklace for a while, like, that’s true.

Sir Ezra 15:51
But you don’t, you don’t get to, we don’t get to, like, understand the intimate components of the relationship as she has submissive was he her submissive was, you know, were they poly, like, Who the fuck knows. And so you don’t really get to learn about how to do that, you know.

Sir Ezra 16:09
And so, you know, going to munches going to classes, going to events, was an opportunity to make friends in the BDSM community and learn about people who were on a similar path to where I want it to be, or where I eventually was, and, and I was like, oh, okay, so a dominant-submissive relationship can be healthy and happy.

Sir Ezra 16:30
And it’s not, you’re not taking advantage of your partner, and you’re not, you know, getting one over on them or something, right.

Céline Remy 16:40
So I definitely want to go back into this exploration of the dominant-submissive and kind of like, what it looks like, but before maybe we get there, I want to know. So I know that he was saying like to seek other people who have done what you want to do, who have more experience to surround yourself and immerse yourself into the world that you want to explore.

Céline Remy 17:03
And I know that another part for you when we were talking earlier, you mentioned prior to the show that therapy was a big one for you that worked. So was it about talking out loud, the things that you were too afraid to maybe share with other people? Or like, in what way did therapy help you? And what was it that really made that tipping point for you?

Sir Ezra 17:27
Well, I know that my therapist is kinky. And so in a way that was just another example of seeing somebody who was farther along in the path. You know she said something to me, that, that sticks in my mind to this day, and that was maybe eight years ago at this point.

Sir Ezra 17:47
And she said, someday, somebody is going to appreciate the fuck out of you. You know, because my ex-wife wanted some parts of me, but would rather just let other parts go and say, Well, you know, you can’t be that person. Also, you know, when then. I mean, I’m remarried now. And I am appreciated for 100% of my bizarreness. You know,

Céline Remy 18:15
I can’t wait to dive into that. Because we always say that, that there’s, there’s always a match for you. It doesn’t matter how kinky or vanilla wherever you are if you think you’re weird, there is somebody out there who likes the same things on you, you might narrow a little bit your searches, you know, if you’re very specific and stuff,

Céline Remy 18:33
but we’ve seen we have the kinkiest friends and we’ve seen the meet each other I mean, get married and then like crazy stuff. And I’m like if this person can find a match, anyone can this is

Kevin Anthony 18:44
really what we always say we have one friend in particular who is on the far extreme end of the kinky scale, like a way out there on the far end of the scale. We’ve we saw him go through relationship after relationship after relationship. It always seemed like nobody was quite enough for him. And then one day, he literally found somebody even kinky here, then he is

Céline Remy 19:10
that amazing to watch.

Kevin Anthony 19:12
Yeah, it was and there, they’re actually a pretty incredible match. And

Céline Remy 19:18
so I want to know, in your opinion as to what is the biggest mistake that people make? And right now we’re talking about, like, you know, being kinky and BDSM and accepting yourself like, maybe at this beginning, like what in your opinion is the biggest mistake people make?

Sir Ezra 19:38
The most common mistake, I’m not sure biggest like most impactful but certainly, the most common mistake that people make is that their dominant-submissive orientation is going to match their gender. So many people come in. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a couple come into the dungeon twice.

Sir Ezra 19:58
The first time She’s on a leash. And the second time he’s on the leash. You know, and then there’s also, there’s this whole contingency of women that are dominant, but feel like they should be submissive. And it’s, it’s a huge conflict for them. And for the community at large, because they’re, they’re not really submissive.

Sir Ezra 20:22
So they’re sort of, they’ve increased the spectrum of what a submissive can be because they’re really just dominant or switches, you know?

Céline Remy 20:31
Oh, this is fascinating. Okay, we’re gonna dive more into this, but we’re gonna do a little sponsor adhere. Today’s episode is brought to you by Aneros. Aneros prostate massages can be enjoyed in many different ways to enhance the strength and pleasure of your orgasms.

Céline Remy 20:48
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Céline Remy 21:08
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Kevin Anthony 21:30
So you can support the love lab podcast and be kinky all at the same time.

Céline Remy 21:36
Two in one. Okay, so I want to come back to that element. I’m fascinated by this whole power dynamic. I love what you were mentioning about like, it doesn’t mean because you’re women, you have to be submissive or because you’re men, you have to be the dominant, the since I can shift here. So what do you think are the most important elements that people need to apply or know when it comes to BDSM?

Sir Ezra 22:04
Okay, the most important elements are self-knowledge and communication. Because those are really transferable to any role, any activity, you need to know what you want, what you don’t want, what you absolutely will never do. Those are things that are really important to know, and you need to be able to communicate those to your partner.

Sir Ezra 22:24
And, I mean, it’s a whole subculture. BDSM is a subculture. And in this subculture, it is essential to talk about what you’re interested in, it may feel awkward compared to the regular world, to on your first date be like, you know, I love it when you yank on my balls. You know, like,

Kevin Anthony 22:47
On our first date, she asked me to masturbate or for a homework project. So you know,

Sir Ezra 22:53
that went, well. that’s a sign that the date went well, yes.

Céline Remy 22:58
We are five years in, married now. So I think it was good. Okay, I’m thinking about a client of mine. He is married, and he’s got some different fantasies and things that he’s, you know, we working on this and helping him like, opening up to that and talking about it with his wife. He’s not like, he’s not a smoker, but he likes to use ex smoking with like masturbation, and that’s kind of like his kink around that and things like that.

Céline Remy 23:29
Now, the biggest thing that I see is number one is for him to accept this part of himself, you know, and that’s kind of like, what you’re talking about really accepting who you are. And I’m curious to if you have like a tip about that, where did you still have to come to a place of saying like, fuck it, this is who I am. And if you don’t like it, like, move on.

Céline Remy 23:46
Then the second one is really like bringing this shit up to your partner and then exploring. So what I’m curious about his likes because you’ve been through that in your first marriage, you had to do some of the work. And then now in your second marriage, you have found somebody who can support you fully.

Céline Remy 24:03
So maybe if we could explore that, and, and maybe give some tips, and hopefully my client is listening to this show, too. So he can get some extra little tips here.

Sir Ezra 24:12
Yeah, well, so the first thing I would say is that there is a there’s an impulse to explain, you know, have an explanation as to why something is sexual when it might not be. It might not be innately sexual, for example, smoking, right? And so we can spend a lifetime trying to figure out why.

Sir Ezra 24:36
And in that whole lifetime of why we may not have accepted it, so it’s way better to accept it first. And then if at all, figure out an explanation and the parallel I like to draw is that there everyone’s always preoccupied with this conversation of like, is homosexuality born? Is it a choice is it learned and none of that matters.

Sir Ezra 25:01
If you’re going to accept somebody for being gay, then you’re going to do that. Right? And the explanation doesn’t matter, as if, you know, being born gay would somehow give you permission to accept them because they didn’t make that choice. But if they made a choice, then we’re not going to accept them.

Sir Ezra 25:17
Because, you know, we don’t agree with that choice. You know, it’s, it’s all just extra, right? acceptance is essential at being okay with who we are, right? And so, regardless of why that thing is sexy, it is sexy, and how are you going to deal with that?

Kevin Anthony 25:35
Yeah, I love that piece to me that that parallels a lot about what you and I talk about when it comes to even therapy, which is we’re not huge fans of the type of therapy that goes back and delves into your childhood and spends three years going over every little bad thing that ever happened to you.

Kevin Anthony 25:56
We are more in line with the okay, that stuff happened to you, we acknowledge it, and let’s move on from there and figure out what you’re going to do about it now, rather than going into the story of and I think it’s very similar, which is, you know, what you’re basically saying it doesn’t matter how you got there.

Kevin Anthony 26:16
But the point is to be accepted either way, from whichever path you came. And honestly, when it comes to that debate, I think the answer is both. I think it depends on the person. I think some people are born that way. And I think some people make a choice. And that’s probably why nobody can ever answer the question because it’s both.

Céline Remy 26:32
So we’re going to get very personal here. Because I think when you think when we think about kinky and BDSM, most people will think about 50 Shades of Grey. And that’s kind of the example. And I’m very curious, like, do you think this is a good example of kink?

Céline Remy 26:45
Then I also kind of want to hear, what does your life look like? Because you work as a dumb as a professional, dumb, and you’re married, and I want to hear about, like, agreements and things like how do you guys make it work? And because that’s gonna be like, inspirational?

Sir Ezra 27:02
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so 50 Shades of Grey, is a piece of theatre, you know. And I don’t think that they hired enough consultants in the space, like, there are lots of people who would have gladly given, like real-world accounts of what those things look like. And I think, as a whole, it is good. Right? It is good for the community because it helps bring people in and the more people who are in the community, the more resources we have to succeed.

Sir Ezra 27:38
There are examples that are good of things that that they did, that is like good examples of BDSM. There are other examples that are terrible. But that aside, I think, as a whole, it was good. It brought a lot of people into the community. And I was, I was already interested. And but my timing was such that I came in with the 50 Shades of Grey wave, you know, but we can go back and look at like the secretary, you know, which was also a sort of DS kind of example.

Sir Ezra 28:16
And that was also an abusive relationship. But it’s still also inspired, people. And it’s, it’s important to realize that erotica doesn’t have to be ethical. Doesn’t have to be realistic. It can give people the wrong idea sometimes, but it can draw people in when they find the real idea from the community. It’s like every rock climbing

Kevin Anthony 28:42
the movie I’ve ever watched, you know, as a climber for many, many years. I watch it and I go, that is the most unrealistic thing, but everybody else watching it is like, Oh my god, that’s so cool. I can’t believe they actually do that.

Céline Remy 28:54
rock climbing, rock climbing.

Sir Ezra 28:57
Yeah, and every rock climbing movie is good for the rock climbing industry. In the end, I don’t know about free solo, but

Kevin Anthony 29:09
that was a good movie, but he’s.

Céline Remy 29:11
So tell us more about your relationship. Of course, you know, whatever your agreement is with your wife with what you can share. But I just I’m just fascinated by how people make it work with having different lifestyles than what’s more mainstream. Read quote-unquote, regular.

Sir Ezra 29:30
Sure, sure. Yeah. Well, so she is my slave life. We tend to use property versus slave just because the racial connotations of slaves can be a little bit upsetting for people. But, so I would describe our relationship as an owner-property relationship. So it’s a little bit like a relationship that you might have with a child in your care, right that you want that that child to have as much autonomy as possible, you want that child to make as many decisions as possible.

Sir Ezra 30:03
But at the end of the day, you’re the boss. Right? And, I mean, the other way is like, you know, it’s my boat. We’re, we’re on a ship. And I’m the captain, you know, so, and some people like that some people don’t. There are a lot of people who have relationships that have that power dynamic, that doesn’t know anything about BDSM. They know some people do it, right.

Sir Ezra 30:28
Some people don’t do it, right. But, but at the end of the day, my relationship may actually not even look like a lot of other people’s power exchange relationships, because I’m really concerned, I want my partner to be as empowered as possible. I want my partner to make as many decisions as they are capable of making. And when they’re not capable of making those decisions, then I step in and take care of it

Kevin Anthony 30:53
yet.

Céline Remy 30:54
So is that a full-time thing? Do you guys have hours where you’re playing like that? Or like, what does it look like in a day to day,

Sir Ezra 31:07
we are 24 seven we are it is not a role that we play we are, you know, that is the life that we live. It’s not to say that she’s, you know, walking on all fours all the time and doing nothing but serving me. But we do play, and when we play, our dynamic is more pronounced. But we do have, we both have jobs, we both have lives. You know, I can tell her what to do. And it’s my job to know when that’s a good idea. And when it’s not. Because I’m not the expert in all things.

Sir Ezra 31:47
So, I mean, we’re both professional. We’re both professional dominance, but her ability to know her clients exceeds mine. And so I’ll do my best to say, Well, that was me, I would do this, instead of saying you what you really need to do it right, because that’s not always helpful. But you know, where we live, what we do, how we, how we organize our lives, ultimately, is my decision.

Sir Ezra 32:20
And it because it does match the gender roles, it doesn’t seem that peculiar by itself. We do have a 35-page agreement that outlines our relationship and what’s expected and how to handle specific conflicts and things like that. And I know that puts her at ease because nothing is unclear. You know,

Kevin Anthony 32:45
that’s a big part. You know, one of the things we talked about earlier in the show about how things might look if you just walked in the room versus what’s actually going on. And you know, when you describe your relationship, a lot of people will probably think, cuz I know, the thought crossed my mind is that it sounds like a 1950s typical marriage, right? where it’s like, yeah, I want her to succeed.

Kevin Anthony 33:10
But at the end of the day, I’m the man I run the show. And so some people looking from the outside might actually see your relationship looking like more of a traditional relationship. But I think the big differences are, that it’s consensual in this case. And I don’t think anybody in the 50s had a 35-page agreement that spelled everything out.

Sir Ezra 33:34
They needed it though,

Kevin Anthony 33:36
They sure did.

Céline Remy 33:38
The agreement is so essential. We’ve done shows on this, both Kevin and I have been in an open relationship and polyamorous relationship for several years. And the agreements were the reason why the relationships were successful. Without that without that clarity.

Céline Remy 33:54
And people go like, why do you like to have to spell this all over? And it’s like, you need to have everything so clearly defined that then you can be free, that it gives you that freedom. Yeah,

Kevin Anthony 34:03
you and I actually traded when we were in different relationships, traded our agreements, so we could see what we what, oh, what’s your relationship doing? Let me see what I got on my list.

Céline Remy 34:13
had like six lines, and we had six-page. So we’re like, Hey, you may want to fluff it up a little bit

Kevin Anthony 34:18
more about efficiency.

Céline Remy 34:24
Do you guys revisit your agreements? annually, or whatever that is for you?

Sir Ezra 34:32
Yeah, we do. Where we have like a six-month check-in. And I’ll be honest, we’re behind. You know, there are things that maybe we’re in the agreement originally, but when the rubber met the road isn’t really how it worked. And if we all had all the time in the world, we would have revised it right away. But you know, life is complicated.

Sir Ezra 34:54
So and as long as we agree, then that’s great. I mean, and we’re Also polyamorous so. So we’re open in that way. And so she is. So here’s, here’s the interesting component. So my partner is a switch, she both dominates and submits. And at a certain point, we realize that she didn’t want to submit to anyone else. So she bottoms only to me, submits only to me, and then dominates other people.

Sir Ezra 35:31
And the only exception to that is when I might have a friend over who is going to dominate her with me. But in the end, I’m sort of dominating that other person, somebody’s got to be sort of in charge of the situation, at least in my mind, so. So yeah, so we have that. And then we’re very open for play. But then sort of romantic relationships have a few more restrictions in terms of like, the standard of how we expect to be treated and things like that.

Céline Remy 36:03
So one last question. I just love this out. What kind of sex do you guys have? Do you have whips and chains? Do you have, vanilla lovemaking? Like what does it look like for our listener? Give us a little bit of

Kevin Anthony 36:16
for those listening, he’s shaking some chains that are hanging behind him.

Sir Ezra 36:22
Leather mask, I got some chains and restraints. Yeah, I’m leaning against a double-sided six by six would St Andrew’s cross. So this is enough for four people to play on. And then behind that, I have like, my toy closet exploded and is now a wall arrangement. And I could reach six or seven whips right now. It’s interesting, you know, you’d think that it was always whips and chains every time.

Sir Ezra 36:58
But the reality is that that’s not all the sex that we have. I mean, we do have like, quote-unquote, vanilla sex, we do have just like, okay, we’re just gonna fuck. But when we have a scene, it’s almost segmented. Right? So if we’re going to engage in BDSM, then it’s almost its own contained experience. And it’s usually paired with sex. So we’ll sort of doing that, and then move on to sex. But yeah, our sex is interesting. And it varies interestingness is not always that,

Kevin Anthony 37:38
as sex should vary, you know, know, the, I guess it shouldn’t ever really be boring, boring. But, but one of the things that I like about the way you’re describing your sex life to the audience is that here’s somebody who makes a living doing this, right. This is like you’re a professional, your marriage is even a DOM sub marriage.

Kevin Anthony 38:00
So people probably think, Oh, it’s just always, you know, off the charts. BDSM craziness all the time. And so I think it’s really good for people to hear that even somebody as pro as you are, it varies like your sex life is gonna vary, things are gonna be, you know, really kinky and crazy one day and really vanilla The next day, or maybe not at all, you know, like, and I think it’s healthy for people to understand that.

Céline Remy 38:24
Well, then that’s really why I got that question. So this has been a fascinating show. I know that you’ve got a book coming out. So why don’t you tell our listeners more about your book where they can find more of you? And then we’ll get into our very last question of the show.

Sir Ezra 38:40
Yeah, absolutely. So the book that I put out is called mind fucking mindfully, a guide to mental manipulation, for BDSM and sadomasochism. And it really outlines how you can mess with your partner how you can play with your partner in play with their head in a way that is healthy and productive and might even help you have more power in the world.

Sir Ezra 39:08
And right now, it’s only available@gumroad.com slash House of Algos as a pre-order is going to be available on Amazon in May and I’ve got it right here if you give me to let me be off-screen for just a second

Céline Remy 39:22
Sure. I will put the link in the description below he listened to the show before May that’s pre-order link will be in the description if that’s afterward you’ll be able to find it on Amazon is the book and there’s a book nine fucking mindfully by Sir Ezra, the book and work too if you’re not into BDSM and you just want to kind of like understand a little bit how to mindfuck your partner.

Sir Ezra 39:45
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like the most simple mindfuck ever is like, just wait till you get home you’re gonna get it. So it doesn’t have to have kinky sex. You know, it can be about the sort of Art of anticipation. And there’s a lot in there too about, like mind-fucking that happens in the world in a nonconsensual way or a non-erotic way.

Sir Ezra 40:11
I think those are really useful for, you know, reclaiming the agency in our own lives because we’re constantly being manipulated by advertising agencies, corporations, governments, you know, authority figures in our lives. If when you can realize that you can really take the power out of it. And then you have more power for yourself to play with.

Céline Remy 40:34
There you go. So true. Absolutely. So as we always like to end with our last question, please let us know what is your best sexual talents?

Sir Ezra 40:44
Hmm. That’s interesting. Well, I worked very hard at whips. I can ring from six feet away, I can ring a service Bell with a typical whip.

Céline Remy 40:56
Impressive wouldn’t ever want to. That’s a very new skill we’re hearing about.

Sir Ezra 41:02
Well, I like heavy masochists. And if you want to attract a heavy masochist, you just crack a whip and they come running.

Céline Remy 41:11
Right? fascinating conversation. And this is just the beginning. So again, if you want to connect with a service writer, you can go to his website, what’s in my kinky.com follow him on social media, and all of that, get his book. Thank you so much for today’s conversation. I definitely enjoyed myself.

Sir Ezra 41:33
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Kevin Anthony 41:35
You’re welcome. All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And we will see you next week.