Kevin Anthony 0:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex, whether you’re a man or woman, single or a couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex of your life.

Kevin Anthony 0:23
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 384, and it is titled female orgasm explained. Here’s the latest research. Now, if you’ve been listening to my show for a while, you know that I’ve done a few shows on Female Orgasms, or just orgasms in general, and I’ve talked about some stats around orgasms, but today I have a guest with me who, if you’re watching on YouTube, you can already see that has some really interesting data, and you’ll understand where she got this data from and how they figured all of this out. But there’s definitely new stuff in here that I have not seen before, that I think is really, really interesting, that I think could really help women understand their bodies more and how to maybe maximize their pleasure a bit more. I think it could also be really interesting for men to hear and go, Oh, that’s what they experience. Oh, that’s what’s going on there, right? So that can help you please your woman, and, of course, understand her a bit more also.

Kevin Anthony 1:33
So I think we’ve got some really interesting stuff. We’ve also got just some, just some simply fun, interesting data, like, it’s not necessarily, you know, technical data that’s going to help you, but it’s fun nonetheless. Like, you know, what’s the most popular time that women masturbate? I bet you wanted to know that. What’s the least popular time? What was the most popular holiday that women masturbated on last year? So we’ve got some fun stuff like that to share along the way, as well as always, before we do that, a few short words from my sponsors.

Kevin Anthony 2:09
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Kevin Anthony 3:19
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Kevin Anthony 3:56
One last thing. I really didn’t promote last year, but I made these cool T-shirts. Says, more orgasms, less wars. There’s the women’s. We got the men’s as well. That was a guest on the show who uttered that phrase, and I said, Oh my God, that’s great. I’m gonna make a t-shirt out of that. So you can go find those on my website as well. https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/

Kevin Anthony 4:24
All right, enough of that stuff. Let’s get into the show. My guest today is Anna Lee, and she is the co-founder and CEO of Lioness, the world’s only smart vibrator that gives you orgasm data. Previously, she was a mechanical engineer at Amazon, where she helped launch the Amazon Dash button and the Kindle Voyage. She has been named to Forbes 30 under 30, and featured in publications including the New York Times glamor and The Economist for her work in expanding the research around female pleasure. Welcome to the show, Anna.

Anna Lee 4:59
Thank you for having me. I’m so excited. I love that shirt, by the way. That’s very cute.

Kevin Anthony 5:04
Thank you. Another guest, I don’t know why, in that moment, she uttered those words, and I was like, Oh, my, that needs to be a t-shirt.

Anna Lee 5:13
I love it. It’s great.

Kevin Anthony 5:15
All right, so you have a company called a lioness, and you make sex toys, obviously, but with a spin, because they’re smart sex toys, right? They can actually track data, before we dive into how those work and what kind of data they can track and all. How in the world did you end up going from an Amazon engineer to making smart sex toys? What was that journey about?

Anna Lee 5:42
You know, it’s it’s funny, because now that I’ve told this story a few times, it feels like a very linear path, but I will say, like, never in my life, I would have bet that this is where I would be, or like, this is what I’m obsessed about, and what I think about every single waking minute of my life. But I was previously a mechanical engineer and at Amazon, and I just knew, like, my parents had immigrated to the US from Korea, and I really believed in this idea of, like, the American dream, like working in corporate, becoming an engineer was kind of like the golden path for my parents, and I loved it.

Anna Lee 6:17
But then I think one of the things I realized was that once I was at Amazon, I didn’t feel like this was everything that it was supposed to be like was I supposed to go to a cubicle every day from, you know, eight, five, and then, you know, work on a Kindle, or, like, whatever design, and then go home. And then, I think one of the big moments I had was realizing that that devices and like hardware products often when, even when they’re unisex, it’s not really usually designed with women in mind, and it’s because there’s not a lot of women engineers, or we don’t see a lot of them in tech fields until, like, as of late, and then, very, very luckily, I met a founder of a different sex toy company. The company doesn’t exist anymore, and you’ll hear why is because it was a guy, and I was, and I asked him. I was like, how do you know what you’re building works for women? Like, how do you know it works for vaginas?

Anna Lee 7:09
And he was like, there’s this industry standard where you put the vibration on your nose, and that’s what a clitoris feels like. And I remember just being like, Dude, that’s so crazy, because I was like, scared of my body growing up, and I realized, like, all the times that I’ve bought a toy and it doesn’t work for me, and I’m like, dude, something’s wrong with my own body. I don’t know why. Why doesn’t this work for me? It must work for other people, but it’s really because often, they weren’t really designed with, like, women in mind, which is, like, the craziest thing, because it’s such an intimate product, and it’s specifically for vaginas. And that’s really where I had this aha moment of like, realizing that we could probably build and engineer a better vibrator. And it kind of led us into this path of like, well, what makes a better vibrator? Like? What would actually help people learn about their bodies? What would help me feel more comfortable with my own body, and what wouldn’t make me feel more like quality, and we really went down the path of knowledge, and that’s how all of this started, about 10 years ago, and it’s been a really wild journey.

Kevin Anthony 8:12
You know? I love that. Okay, obviously, you had a background in engineering, right? And you met this guy in the sex toy company, and you’re realizing that, wait a minute, you’re not, you’re not even asking women like what they want or what they need. So, like that part I get, but the other part that I love about your story is that part of this was coming from your own desire, right? Like these things aren’t working for me, or maybe I’m supposed to be feeling something that I’m not, or whatever it is. And I think, honestly, that’s how you really become successful. In other words, you’re not just doing it because I want to make money or because I think I can out-engineer somebody, but there was a genuine desire to do something to help yourself as well as other people. And I always love companies that start that way. I think, you know, that’s a great way to do it.

Kevin Anthony 9:02
And of course, you get the benefit of the idea that you’re not just going to a cubicle all day, giving all of your time and energy away to somebody else, right? I completely understand. I worked for big tech for many, many years as well. I worked for, well, I won’t say the company, but they were very big tech companies, and I was very I thought it was the coolest thing when I was younger, it started. I was like, Oh, my God, I remember that I started at it was the last company that I worked for in tech, and I was only there for like three months, and I was assigned this guy. He was kind of my mentor, helping me learn all the systems, because it was massive this company, and the systems we worked with were just huge, global scale. And then he leaves, like, three months into me starting, and they just turned to me, and they’re like, Okay, you’re now in charge of everything. Like, I’ve only been here for three. Months, but the first time I sat down and had to create a PO, I didn’t even know how to use the PO system. I figured it all out. I got it all down. I go, Wow, I’m spending a million dollars of their money, and I’ve only been here for like, three months, and I really don’t know what I’m doing, but I’m just gonna spend, I’m gonna hit this button, and I just spent a million bucks.

Anna Lee 10:22
That’s crazy. Yeah, so crazy.

Kevin Anthony 10:25
I totally understand where you’re at. Like, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And you know, to me, it’s like, I’m spending a million dollars. This is freaking amazing. But after a number of years of it, I got super burnt out. I was realizing that I was giving all my time and energy away to something that I didn’t really care about, and that, other than a paycheck, wasn’t really helping me or anybody else. And so I ended up transitioning. Now I do something I love, where I get to help people all the time, you know, so different but similar journeys, you know?

Anna Lee 10:54
And, yeah, absolutely, I love to tell people like, I truly feel like I have one of the best jobs in the world. I mean, like, well, masturbating and, like, learning about orgasms is, like, probably the, like, the most fun way you could live your, I guess, like, your day in, day out, which has been so exciting. And I think the question I get often is, like, what’s your day-to-day look like? But, I mean, it’s a little disappointing, because it’s still, you know, at the end of the day you’re working, I’m mostly on my computer the majority of time, and people are like, your office must be so crazy and all these things. But we do have very, very funny work stories, like, we just have very silly moments and just like, funny things that happen that you know typically wouldn’t happen at a typical work office. So I find it an absolute blessing that I get to do something that I absolutely love day in, day out.

Kevin Anthony 11:38
We get to do something with our jobs that the average person would get fired and possibly sued for.

Anna Lee 11:46
We always joke. We’re like, Dang if we had like, a formal HR. Like, you know, there are the funny things that we’ve seen, you know, like, are the things people email. It’s just all sorts of silly things that I was like, I wouldn’t even know how to, like, navigate all.

Kevin Anthony 11:59
Well, that’s awesome. I’m glad you’re having fun, along with the fact that you’re creating great products as well. Yeah. So, you know, I want to come back to this idea, and let’s just talk about this a little bit. I’m curious about your opinions on this, because you just mentioned a moment ago that you know, this person you met who had a sex toy company wasn’t actually, you know, getting data from women, like, asking them what works for you, what doesn’t work for you. Like, how can we make this better? This is like, oh, I’ll just touch it to my nose, kind of thing. And that is something that I’ve heard and seen a lot in the industry, which is, you know, it’s just, well, I’m an engineer, I know how to do this, and it kind of blows my mind, because as an entrepreneur myself, running my own business, it’s like, if I want to create a program, I don’t just create a new program. I go like, Okay, tell me, what are you struggling with? What is it that you are looking for? You know, it’s basic market research, and it just blows my mind that people aren’t doing that.

Anna Lee 13:06
Yeah, it’s, it’s, like many, there’s many reasons as to why, like, I would say one is, it’s it the sex toy industries actually was historically male dominated, and I think that’s this fact that actually surprises a lot of people, but at the time actually, like, sex toys were targeted for men to purchase for their significant other. So they were targeting the men who are coming into these stores and being like, Hey, I’m trying to find a Valentine’s Day gift, or I’m trying to find a way to spice up my relationship. I’m gonna buy this thing with an adult entertainer on it that has like, a 100 different speeds, 12 different patterns, you know, sparkles and rotates and all of these things. And so they’re really getting that wow factor for men to purchase.

Anna Lee 13:47
And so a lot of like, brick and mortar retailer stores will tell you, like, historically, it’s typically been like, men purchasing. We’re only seeing the shift in the past, like five, six years, where you’re seeing a lot more women buy toys, and you’re seeing a lot more brands that are actually geared towards women purchasers. So it’s definitely interesting. But, I mean, it’s also funny to think, like, you know, just in women’s health as a whole, like, it’s very, it’s been very, very understudied. Like, I could tell you for hours about how, like, we don’t know very much about the sexual function, but just from a health level, how, like, we used to test male mice, but not female mice, for drug tests and all of these different things. So I think it just has.

Anna Lee 14:28
Maybe it’s one of those things that has worked for many, many years, and so that’s how people have seen like this is how we’re going to do it. But I And it very much trickled down to the sex toy industry as well. But I think it’s only in the as of late that we’re really seeing that shift happen, but it happens all the time. It all happens all the time, but it’s silly that it happens for sex toys,

Kevin Anthony 14:48
Yeah, well, and that, so that’s a whole other thing that I want to talk about. Like it’s one thing for a company to not necessarily do, say, testing, surveys, or whatever, with women or. Right? Okay, that’s one part of it, as far as the simple design of the product. But you just talked about something else that’s really prevalent, which is the lack of actual studies done on female sexuality, pleasure, and anatomy. And it is definitely something that I hear a lot out there is like, well, we don’t really have any data on women. I’m like, how could you not have any data? Like, no, granted, I understand. Like, you know, if a guy’s having trouble having a boner, right? Yeah, like, he’s gonna do anything and everything in his power to fix this problem. Hence, you know, all the drugs and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, it does kind of okay. Maybe 40 years ago, I understand why they didn’t do as much, right? Because there wasn’t as much focus on, you know, her pleasure and that sort of thing. But I mean, for decades now, I feel like they’ve got to be at least 20, maybe 30 years behind in that. Like, how are we not doing this? I mean, obviously, you are. But how is the industry as a whole not doing this more?

Anna Lee 16:11
No, absolutely. Actually, one of my favorite stories to tell people is, if you Google, I think it will still happen. Maybe the AI will make it better now. But when using Google, like, how many nerve endings does the clitoris have? Or, like, nerve fibers, it will always say 8000, they’ll say 8000 7000, like, somewhere around there, and that’s the number that’s been known for like, decades. And like, if you look at YouTube, there’s like, TED talks big, like big thinker talks, they’ll always quote the number 8000, and it’s only as of 20, I think 2022, because they finally did it, because they found that 8000 number is actually from a book in the 1970s called the clitoris. And they took a cow’s clitoris, a bovine clitoris, and they did a tissue sample, and the cow’s clitoris had 8000 nerve fibers.

Anna Lee 16:57
So then that was the quoted thing, that women have 8000 nerve fibers, and it was not until like 2022 I think, yeah, like, like 22 like year 22 Dr Blair Peters was doing surgeries for gender transitions, and she took a piece of the sample and was like, Okay, I’m going to test what a female clitoris actually has, and it’s over 10,000 nerve fibers. And that is a number we didn’t know until literally four years ago, which I think is crazy, and it has a lot of implications, because it talks about, well, when we do surgeries near that area, like, how many nerve fibers are we actually having to consider that we’re not going to damage and, like, all these different things, and it’s, it’s literally four that’s a four years ago knowledge, and they’ve before. We are quoting a cow’s clitoris, which I think is crazy. Also, the fact that cows have a clitoris is also kind of like mind blowing.

Kevin Anthony 17:49
Yeah, but yeah, this is the kind of stuff that blows my mind, too. Because, okay, like, I understand where you might be using animals as substitutes, but you can’t make definitive statements based on that. So in other words, let’s say you have a new drug that’s supposed to, you know, potentially increase blood flow to a clitoris. You could take an animal, and you could say, let’s try it on that and see if it has the desired effect, and see if it has any side effects that we’re not aware of, but that’s not the end of the story. You can’t say then, well, then this drug works on a human clitoris, because you didn’t try it on a human clitoris, right?

Kevin Anthony 18:30
So, yeah, it just blows my mind that that’s the kind of stuff that even I mean, we think we’re so advanced, we’re in 2026, but yet we’re just starting to do some of this stuff. It really does blow my mind. Yeah. So absolutely, I hope that by having discussions like this, by the way, that we will inspire people to do more of this research, right? So if anybody’s listening to this who happens to be in the field, like, hey, there’s a lack of data here, maybe we ought to research it a little bit more. And I hope too that people who are listening, who aren’t in the field, can start to actually ask for stuff like that. Like, the more people make their voices heard. Like, hey, we want more data on them. We want to understand our bodies better. And this is important, right?

Anna Lee 19:17
Maybe we can use anecdotal data, actually, like, even if it’s just you self-experimenting with yourself. Like, that’s like, a big I’m such an advocate of, like, self experimentation and like, oh, this works for me. This doesn’t, or this might be a little different, and like, post it on Reddit or something, because it’ll resonate with somebody, and then if it gets bigger, like, that’s how things get studied. And it we won’t know unless people say things, but a lot of times we just assume our body is like, either not normal, or we’re too scared to talk about it, or we’re like, oh, I don’t know. Like, maybe that’s just what happened. Then we just leave it as is. But there might be tons of things we just don’t know if, but we need more people to tell us their stories.

Kevin Anthony 19:54
Yeah, and you know, that’s one of the reasons why I like to do this show, is because the more we talk about. Things of, you know, a sexual nature, whether it’s how our bodies work or what our experiences are with ourselves or with our partners, the more we normalize it, the more we make it okay for people to actually talk about it. You know, I, for years, I had this, I just couldn’t wrap my mind around the fact that a lot of women really didn’t know much about their own genitals. And because I was always looking at it from the point of view of a man, I’m like as a man, we know every millimeter of our genitals. We’ve looked at it 1000 times from every angle. We’ve like, thrown our backs out trying to, like, see parts of it, right? That’s how we are as men, right?

Kevin Anthony 20:38
And I just couldn’t understand how women didn’t explore and know more about it, but over the years, having talked to a lot of women and having a lot of female sex experts on my show, and I asked a lot of them that exact question, and the overwhelming answer I got was, well, there’s a lot of shame, and we’re not supposed to do that, and we shouldn’t talk about it, and we’re not supposed to look at it, we’re not supposed to show it, and, like, all that kind of stuff that really got in the way and prevented women from experimenting with their own bodies. And so, yeah, and so I, that’s why I love having these types of conversations, because it gives people permission to do that.

Anna Lee 21:18
Yeah, yeah. I will. I’ll be the first person to say, like, knowledge is pleasure. The more you masturbate, the more you learn about yourself, like, the better everything gets, like, your relationships, your sexual enjoyment, everything. So I’m a huge advocate.

Kevin Anthony 21:32
Well, that’s a really good point that you bring up, too, right? Which is, you know, when people are in couples, sometimes they think, Well, now that you know we’re dating, or now that we’re married, or now that we’re living together, or whatever it is, it’s like, you’re not going to masturbate anymore. Yeah, right. You don’t need that. I’m here, right?

Anna Lee 21:48
Yes, Kevin, I will say, like, that’s probably the thing that I if I do, like a booth, or, you know, like anything, like we’re showing, our showcasing, the line is probably most often the feedback I get is, like, Well, my partner doesn’t want me to have one because, you know, we’re in a relationship. Or, like, my partner doesn’t know that I masturbate. Or, like, like, why would I like, like, I’m too scared to bring it up to, like, get a sex toy when I’m in a relationship. Or it’s like, the guy being like, oh, like, I don’t want her to have one because it’s like, replacing me, yada yada yada.

Anna Lee 22:20
And I, at some point, actually had a little print out from a research paper that was like, and I laminated it, and it was like, fit in my wallet, that there was many, there’s many research studies showing, like, people that have a sex toy and are in a relationship always have higher satisfaction in their sexual pleasure. Like, life and like, it’s an idea that you know that they masturbate or, like, they own a toy, and it’s like, that there’s a higher sexual satisfaction in that relationship. And I’d always pull it out, being like, I don’t really understand why we keep saying, like, sex toys are exclusive for if you’re single, and like, you can’t have it with a partner, because it just makes everything better. Yeah, it’s like, it’s the one that I still get, and I, still get, and I like, hasn’t really changed in the past 10 years, which is a bit of a bummer.

Kevin Anthony 23:06
Well, hopefully we can change that audience. I hate to break it to you. Everybody masturbates when their relationship, whether they tell you about it or not, everybody does, and that’s probably for the better. Yeah, yeah. Well, and that’s the thing too, is, I mean, especially in today’s busy world, right? Like, you know, people are not making as much time for connection and intimacy and sex as they should be, right? And so they are going long periods of time without really any stimulation, right? And if they’re allowed to freely and openly, you know, masturbate on their own, whether toys are or not, that’s going to help stoke that fire, that’s going to increase their libido and make them want more, and then hopefully bring them closer together.

Kevin Anthony 23:50
Now, of course, with vibrators, men can get a little jealous, so to speak, like you said, Oh, it’s going to replace me, or she’s going to like that better than I am. And I think that’s the root behind a lot of the, you know, men’s hesitations towards their women masturbating. But that’s because they’re looking at it from the fear side, not from the other side of the equation, which is, you know, this might actually spark her libido. She might get so turned on that she wants the real thing, and come jump on me. Right?

Anna Lee 24:21
Exactly? Yeah. I always say, like, you know, sex toys not gonna cuddle me, or like, we’re not gonna, I’m not gonna go to the movies with a sex toy, like, I never understood the replacement part. It’s very silly, but I will say, like, we actually have, we do, like, different sex experiments, of like, seeing what kind of factors make people have better orgasms and things like that. And actually, mutual masturbation is one of the sex experiments we run, so we encourage people to do mutual masturbation, and it’s consistently over the years we’ve seen longer, stronger orgasms when people do mutual masturbation together. So it’s a huge thing that I also encourage, that I think sometimes people feel a little nervous about, but. I’m always like, it’s so, like, low, it’s low pressure on both people. It’s hot, like, it’s such an easy thing to do, it’s gonna maybe, like, help guarantee an orgasm for everyone involved. And it’s, it’s consistently we’ve seen better orgasms through mutual observation.

Kevin Anthony 25:16
Yeah, I think it’s interesting too. This is another funny thing. You know, having worked in this industry for a long time, you see these patterns of these kinds of things that just persist, right? And one of them is that people don’t want to masturbate in front of their partners, and it’s so funny, they’ll do it like any other sex act, but somehow masturbation in front of their partner is like this edge that they just can’t get past, right? And I’m always telling people, as a sex educator, no, you want to do that because you want to show them. Here’s what I like, here’s what works for me. Here’s how I do it. Pay attention. You might learn something

Anna Lee 25:51
100% yes, absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 25:54
All right, let’s dive a little bit more into the products, and then, yeah, and then what you’ve learned from it. So byproducts. I mean, we’re not going to sit here and talk about, well, this product does this and that, but I’m curious, really, about, we’ve been talking a whole lot about this idea that there’s a lack of data. So I’m curious about how you solve that problem? What is your approach? How did you create a sex toy that could actually get data?

Anna Lee 26:22
Yeah, I honestly, when we first started, we were looking at the concept of an AI vibrator. And this is 10 years ago, before you know, we really had this big boom of AI. And we had this idea, like, maybe, you know, the more you use it, it gets know you better. So it starts moving. It changes vibration over time. Like, it knows what you like. But I think one of the hardest things we started doing was we started researching as many research papers as possible, of like, what happens, like, what is high arousal? What does an orgasm look like for women? And we realized there was so so little research on it, and we couldn’t train even an AI model to even say, like, well, what is pleasurable and what is not.

Anna Lee 27:02
And so when we started doing interviews with like, users and understanding, like, what their needs were, one of the big things was like, Well, I don’t really care for, like, an AI vibrator. Like, I know what I like, but how do you know, like, how would you know, like, what I like, or like, what is most arousing? And we’re like, well, there’s this, like, a couple of studies that were done, especially from the 1980s, from the 1980s where during an orgasm, there’s a unique pelvic floor contraction that happens, so how your pelvic floor muscles squeeze and relax. And so that’s where we really started of like, okay, like, they’re like, I want to see what that data looks like. I want to see what my own orgasm data looks like, and how that can change. And so that really gave us the moment. And with this movement of things like the Fitbit, the Aura ring, and being able to have a better understanding of your body through data points.

Anna Lee 27:48
And so we really want to bring that for sexual pleasure. Because I think the number one question we get asked the most is, am I normal? It’s people wondering like, hey, my body does this, or I’m not able to get to an orgasm very often. Or like, I feel like I’m getting really close, and then I don’t feel anything. Like, is that normal? And so we really wanted to give this idea of like, well, the more you know about your own body and the data, and we’re able to just show like, well, this is what typical looks like, but this is also what we know that some people go through and how it can change, and really pushing this idea of knowledge. And so that’s how we started this idea of giving people, this idea to give, like, get data about their own pleasure and their own orgasms, and really help understand what’s working for them, what’s not, what’s making it better. Maybe there are factors in your life that you didn’t even realize are changing your orgasm and arousal, and really trying to dig a little deeper.

Anna Lee 28:41
Because I think the biggest thing that a lot of sex therapists will tell you is to have a sex Journal of, like this is what’s worked for me. This is like, what’s not, but we’re really just taking that and then amplifying it with some data behind it, and then also just giving you the opportunity to, like, reflect a little bit on your experience. Because I think, you know, I don’t always masturbate, and I’m like, Dear Diary, like, this is what I thought about. Sometimes people are just like, moving on with her today. And so we just want to give that moment of like, just that couple of minutes of like, oh, like self-reflection and thinking about how it was for them, and all of that.

Kevin Anthony 29:15
Yeah, I think that is also very fascinating, in the sense that you started out with this idea of, we want to make a device that adjusts to what you like, and then that brought you around to the fact that we don’t actually know what we like because there’s no data on this. So yeah, that’s really interesting, right? It’s an example of one of those things. As we thought, we were going to make one product. We thought, This is what we were going to do, and then we realized, oh, there’s this whole other area that’s basically unknown, and we need to solve that first before we can even go in the other direction. Yes, yes, absolutely. So I know that you have identified what you’re calling sort of three. Occurring shapes, and this is some of the data that you’ve gotten. So you were just talking about the pelvic floor contractions, right? What are those shapes? And like, maybe you could explain what they are and maybe describe them a little bit so women listening can be like, Oh, that one kind of sounds like me.

Anna Lee 30:16
Oh, my God, absolutely yes. So one of the biggest things that we were studying is that during an orgasm, a very unique pattern happens, like how your pelvic floor muscles involuntarily squeeze and relax. Very often you’ll see kind of this, like squeeze and relax, squeeze and relax, that doesn’t really change in force. So one of the biggest things that we worked on, which was so it was so incredibly exciting, was that we worked with Dr Jim Faust of Prague University and D Hartman, working on this idea of, well, what are the patterns that show during an orgasm? And we actually identified three unique patterns that can happen. We gave them very much cuter names, the wave, the avalanche, and the volcano. But really, it was a base a lot on a research paper done in the 1980s by Bolin, but he only had a sample size of, I believe, like eight women. So the idea was to really expand that, because we have so much more data, so much more power to do more insights.

Anna Lee 31:15
And so we had 54 users basically participate in this research study, and we were able to separate it out into three unique patterns. The wave is the most common. It’s the very squeeze. The one I was talking about is like very squeeze and relax. Squeeze and relax. It typically doesn’t change much in force, so you’re just kind of seeing the squeeze and relax, and then it kind of ends. The avalanche is the second most common. One starts much higher in force, so you kind of see this explosion of force, and you still have that squeeze and relax like a wave, but it tapers down, so it starts sloping downward, so it gets weaker and weaker and weaker. And then the volcano, which is the rarest one, is kind of your classic, how you would they would describe it in movies, how they show it and depict it in movies. It’s this huge explosion of force, not much of a contraction, and then just this huge drop in force, and then it’s just kind of like one giant bump.

Anna Lee 32:08
So those are the three patterns. And the fun fact that we like to tell people, that people love to argue about, is that typically, we don’t see people jump from one pattern to another pattern. So for example, I’m actually a wave pattern, so all my data typically shows a squeeze and relax. In the 10 years that I’ve been using it, the line is maybe once or twice I’ve ever seen it change to an avalanche, but I’ve never been able to see a volcano type. But, you know, a lot of people write to us all the time, being like, No, I swear I can have all three. I can prove it to you. Like, you know, people are like, when I’m with other partners, I get a volcano orgasm. Sometimes I have a wave, an ocean wave. But really, we haven’t seen it through the data quite yet, but we love, we love people who are so passionate about it. Because I’m like, yes, these are the people we need. Like, please donate your data, because that’s how we’re going to expand our research, but as of current, we don’t typically see people jumping from one pattern to another pattern.

Kevin Anthony 33:05
I’m curious. I don’t know if you have any data on this, but you know, obviously, there are clitoral orgasms, G Spot orgasms, cervical orgasms, does the type of orgasm that a woman has affect what pattern they are?

Anna Lee 33:20
That’s a great question. That’s probably that’s often something that’s often asked to us, I will say, at least, from the ones that we’ve seen, or people have like sent us in, or like contributed to our research, we haven’t seen the pattern change because of the different types of orgasms we actually had a woman who was able to get to an orgasm without actually touching her genitals in any shape or form. So like, really using her mind and like contraction, like her core engagement, and so we thought maybe we would see something uniquely different. But actually, what we saw during the orgasm was still that very involuntary pelvic floor contraction, squeeze, and relax. But yeah, that’s something we need to study a lot more. I would say, like we did a lot of it through anal orgasms, vaginal and clitoral, but not so much of the other ones. So it’d be really interesting to see.

Kevin Anthony 34:10
Yeah, I was just wondering because if a woman is saying, well, when I’m with this guy, I can have this kind of pattern when I’m with this one, I have this kind of, I was just curious if we had enough data to really see, like, certain things would create certain types of patterns.

Anna Lee 34:24
Yeah, I would say, like, the way that I see the data change, like, especially for like, mine for example, it’s not so much that the patterns change. It’s the same patterns to the ocean wave, for example, but it’s like, much, you know, bigger squeezes and relaxes, or, like, longer the orgasm is longer in itself, or, like, faster squeezes and relaxes. So it still has that wave pattern for me, but it just changes in like, the length or the strength or something like the frequency and things like that.

Kevin Anthony 34:53
Yeah, super fascinating. It sounds like there’s still more research that needs to be done.

Anna Lee 34:58
I know it’s a really sexy way to talk about orgasms too, like, oh well, the frequency is just like, much faster, yeah. But that’s usually how I end up talking about them.

Kevin Anthony 35:08
Well, hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. I think it’s fascinating, honestly, and, you know, even though I may not be a woman and I’m not experiencing these things, like, I want to know what is my partner is experiencing?

Anna Lee 35:19
Yes, actually, we’ve had a couple of users that have penises, because you can insert it anally, and you still get the same data. You still have pelvic floor contractions. I will say, typically, we’ve seen them always be ocean waves. We haven’t seen the Avalanche or volcano types in men, but it’s definitely usable. You definitely will still get the same like contraction data.

Kevin Anthony 35:39
Oh, that is interesting. That’s fascinating. We might have to try that. Yeah, okay, I need to take a short break. Yes, but when we come back, we’ve got a lot more stats to talk about. You know, average female orgasm, length, all kinds of stuff I got, I got a bunch of stats right here. So I think people, if you found the different types interesting, you’ll find some of the other stats interesting too. And I’d also love, towards the end to dive a little bit more into some of these experiments. You mentioned one of them, but I know you’ve done others that are really interesting as well. So on the other side of the break, we’ll dive into that.

Kevin Anthony 36:19
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Kevin Anthony 37:53
Okay, so back to the data. We were just talking about the recurring shapes when women orgasm. Let’s talk about the orgasm itself. In other words, you’re figuring out that there is, there’s, there’s a sort of a peak force to it. There’s also a length to it. Let’s talk a little bit about some of those things so we can kind of understand that, like, we know there’s a pattern, right? So potentially there’s a wave pattern, but in that wave, you’re also able to measure peak force and length. So what have you learned from that data?

Anna Lee 38:32
Yeah, so what we have is force sensors in the line. So what we’re measuring is how strong and like, how you know, how you’re squeezing on those force sensors on through your public floor, contractions. And so we’ve seen a lot of really interesting things, but I would say the biggest thing is that we do a thing called pleasure wrapped every year, and we’ve done it for the past three years, and it’s aggregating all of our users data, anonymously and just from an aggregate perspective of like, what is a typical So, what is a typical length to masturbate? What is the typical length of an orgasm? How strong is a typical orgasm? Another really fun fact I love to tell people that always blows people’s minds is that the average strength of an orgasm is 69.7 gram force. And I know. I know for a fact, like, 69.7 gram force means nothing to anybody. Like, what, you know, what does that feel like?

Anna Lee 39:26
And so I actually did a little experiment on, like, getting household items to being, like, okay, like, what is that force? And that force is about the force to snap a skinny Hot Cheeto in half. So you get a little hot Cheeto. Or, like, you know, if you like the cheese ones, that’s cheese puffs or whatever. But it’s about the force to snap that it can’t crack an egg. Your anal muscles can probably squish a blueberry. But yeah, so that’s about the force, and we’ve seen things like the tip in the past three years. It’s been very consistent. The typical length of an orgasm that we’ve seen is 28.3 Three seconds. So that’s about how long an orgasm lasts for a female orgasm, and then a typical length of a second is about eight minutes and 18 seconds. And that’s also been consistent for the past three years.

Kevin Anthony 40:16
So, a couple of different things that you shared there. First I find the force really interesting. So you can, all right, ladies, you can snap a Cheeto in half with your vagina.

Anna Lee 40:28
Good party trick, I think.

Kevin Anthony 40:31
I’m curious. I would love to see. I’m gonna just throw this out there. You know that there are women who specifically train their pelvic floor muscles. I would be curious if you could get a couple of those women into your study and see if there’s a difference between the strength of their orgasm as far as the force that’s created versus the average woman. I’m willing to bet that there is a measurable difference in the force that they can create.

Anna Lee 41:01
I’m sure, I absolutely believe it. So if anyone is listening and they think that, like I have very strong pelvic floor muscles, please write in, because I would love, I would love to hear it Actually, speaking of another really interesting study that we did past the past year that was led by physical pelvic floor physical therapists and also researcher Dee Hartman, something really interesting that she did was she had people use the lioness and do keg exercises, so doing like long holds, but also short bursts, so that we can understand how their fast switch muscles work and slow twitch muscles work. And the idea was to try to squeeze it as hard as you can and consistently. What she’s seen very often is that what you can squeeze voluntarily is actually much weaker than what your involuntary muscles do during an orgasm.

Anna Lee 41:50
So orgasms always tend to be a lot stronger. We’ve seen it in my data too, and she was so excited because she was like, Oh my gosh, like your data looks just exactly like what we’re looking for. So yeah, so typical Kegels exercises. So one of the things she wants to further on that research is the idea that maybe orgasms are actually extremely health beneficial in terms of, like, for things like urinary incontinence, pelvic floor prolapse, and things like that, because it can actually work your muscles in a much stronger way than what Kegels can actually do. So that’s another research that we’ve done that’s been super exciting for what the technology that we have.

Kevin Anthony 42:28
Yeah, well, I’m going to tell you right now that the answer to that is yes, and it’ll be really cool when the data catches up, because we know, we know for sure that orgasms have tons of benefits. And you know, we know from the data you have so far that they’re stronger than voluntary contractions, right? So, of course, then if they’re stronger than voluntary contractions, they’re going to be more beneficial than doing your Kegels. Well, at least if you have enough of them anyway, because consistency would be the key. But, but I think it would also be amazing to actually have the data to back that up and tell everybody, okay, look, because here’s why, you have to go out and have all the orgasms you can.

Anna Lee 43:08
Yeah, you’ve got to have six orgasms before you come back to your next appointment. That’s right, you know, my My dream is to actually see it, being able to get it at a pharmacy, like, if I go to Kaiser, or, like, you know, wherever doctor, and then you get prescribed a sex toy, and like, being able to pick that up at the pharmacy, that’s the goal.

Kevin Anthony 43:24
What a world we would live in if your doctor, like, there’s a classic, mean little cartoon that I see go around every so often on social media, and it’s a doctor, and the patient, and the patient’s like, Well, okay, what? What are you prescribing to me and the doctors, like, I want you to go outside and get x amount of sunlight and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff that they never actually tell you. But imagine that, but your doctor is actually telling you you need to have X number of orgasms before you come back for your next visit. Like, yes, that’s the world we want to live in.

Anna Lee 43:56
I think we would all be kinder, honestly.

Kevin Anthony 43:58
More orgasms, less wars. That would be amazing. And I think, I think we will get there. It’s just going to take a little bit more time, but studies like yours and the data that you’re compiling is really what’s going to help us get there. And by the way, for people listening when she’s talking about these studies, these are actually published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine. So we’re not just talking about, oh, a company’s compiling some data here. These are, like, actual studies done with actual scientific methods that are published in actual journals, just to put that out there.

Anna Lee 44:36
Yes, as much as much fun it is to run like a sex toy business, but I would say, like, our like, bread and butter core, that every single person on our team, and the reason that they stick around and like, want to work online is so much is that our main mission is to expand the research around female sexual function and just get as much research out there and like, do whatever we can to help other researchers be able to do those research studies. One of the biggest things we work on is our research arm, and like everything, all of our data, we don’t sell it or anything like that. The data is privately yours. The only time we are able to publish studies like this is if you opt in to our research platform, and that’s the only time we connect your data to a researcher anonymously. You have a research ID, so you’ll never be, you know, it’s not saying, like my mom from LA, you know, age, whatever you know. And so the idea is that we, we really are grateful to our users who are also excited about research, and they donate a lot of their data to be able to expand the research around us. And it’s been really cool.

Kevin Anthony 45:40
I mean, it’s so needed. It really is we really need to expand the data and the research in these areas. And, you know, I think we’re finally getting to a place where, where we can talk about these things and do these studies and publish them and get the data out there. So that’s really amazing. Let’s talk about a few more of the stats. So we mentioned orgasm length. And one of the interesting things about that was, I believe what I wrote in my notes, because I know we talked about this previously, was that the average female orgasm was 27.4 is what I wrote down somewhere right around that, right? That’s 28-ish seconds. Yes, the orgasm itself lasts, which is pretty impressive when you compare that to the average male orgasm. Yes, which you had told me, I didn’t actually know this number, but you had mentioned seven to 11 seconds. So there’s, that’s a big disparity there. In other words, the female orgasm can last like three-ish times longer than the male orgasm. Yes, you know that, ladies, I understand that there are some benefits to being a male in this world, but that’s a pretty good benefit to be female. You can triple the orgasm.

Anna Lee 46:59
Anytime I post about it. Or like, you know, I do a lot where I share my own data online, so that people just, like, kind of get the concept and just feel like it’s normal to be like, oh, like, this is what my data looks like. And I will say, yes, most commonly, men are always like, what? Like, women’s orgasms last like, almost 30 seconds, like, and they’re so jealous of that. But yeah, we’ve seen some women who donate their data that are, like, even longer, like one minute 90 seconds, like a minute and a half. So it’s really cool. Like, the female orgasm definitely is a little bit more difficult to get to, and it typically it takes longer to get to an orgasm. But yeah, 32nd orgasm, I would say, like, compared to a guy’s, like, seven to 11, is pretty amazing.

Kevin Anthony 47:41
It is for sure, and, you know, as a guy myself who practices, you know, being able to hold and control my ejaculation, I can tell you that. You know, sometimes when a woman really, like, explodes in a deep orgasm, like you have to hang on for a significant amount of time while she’s just, like, she’s hitting you, like, like, you just got zapped by lightning, right? You know? And just like, Whoa, my God, as you’re trying to hold on, and it just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going. That’s pretty amazing.

Anna Lee 48:15
It really is. It’s the female orgasm. So it’s just so interesting and so nuanced. It’s so cool.

Kevin Anthony 48:23
Just like women, yeah, they’re so interesting and so nuanced. Why should their orgasm be any different? A couple of other interesting things that I saw here in the stats, so you have some data on how long it takes women to orgasm, and that was actually also broken down by age groups. So, in the ages 31 to 40, it was about 10 minutes. But in the ages of 51 to 60, it was technically when I did the math, it was 3.65 minutes, as that’s a big difference. Why do you think there’s such a difference? Why can older women get to their orgasm faster than younger women?

Anna Lee 49:10
That’s a great question. This is also a study that was published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, also led by de Hartman, and it was actually such a surprising one, and I would say, like, very often, this is the one that a lot of women, you know, get really surprised by, but also, like older women, get so excited by, because not only did we see that 31 to 40 year olds have take the longest to get to an orgasm around 10 minutes, and our idea is that you’re probably like, there’s also when a lot of hormonal changes are happening and you’re still, like, learning a lot about your own body.

Anna Lee 49:42
So there could be different factors, like maybe pregnancy post pregnancy, just like different things stress, like different stress factors in your day that could be leading to taking longer to an orgasm, but 10 minutes is around the typical average that we’ve seen, and then, but they do tend to have the long. Orgasms which are around 30 seconds. But the cool thing is that 51 to 60 year olds, they are the fastest orgasms, but they also have the strongest orgasms. And I would like to, I would like to chalk it up to the idea that the more you are, the more you get season,n and you know more about your body, and you’re more empowered within your body, you just have better orgasms, and you get to it faster. So I always tell people, like, I’m excited, like, I think if there’s so many things to look forward to as you get older, because there’s like, always this, like media, like media misconception that, like, as you get older, that you’re not no longer a sexual being, which is such a sad thing to hear.

Anna Lee 50:39
But what we’ve seen across is that very often the people who are purchasing lionesses are in the older demographic. And yeah, they’re having they’re the ones that are writing in, and they’re saying, like, Oh, I got one all for my girlfriends. We talked about it at brunch. We show each other our data. We talk about what worked, what didn’t, and you can just see that they’re so sexually empowered in so many ways that I think a lot of us in our 20s and 30s are really trying to figure out and navigate and figure out what it means to have pleasure for ourselves versus for others. I think there are a lot of times you kind of worry about what your partner’s you know, like you’re worrying about your partner and all of these different things, but I think they just have a much more sexually embraced superpower that I think is incredible, and it’s so cool to see how strong their orgasms can get.

Kevin Anthony 51:28
Yeah, we could. We could theorize as to why that is, and I have some potential thoughts on it myself. But the reason I really wanted to highlight that stat was for exactly what you just said, to bust this misconception that when you get older, your sex life sucks. You don’t have sex anymore. You’re not orgasming like you’re washed up, you’re done. You might as well just hang your genitals up on the wall, because it’s over, right? And that’s not at all what the data suggests. It’s not what my own personal experience suggests, being in my 50s now, and it’s not what a lot of women and men tell me. So I just thought, like, here’s the data to back that up.

Anna Lee 52:17
Yes, and it’s like something that should be so exciting and what people look forward to. But yeah, I’ve, anecdotally, I just all the people that have ever come up to me and, like, talk to me like they’re typically in their like, 50s and 60s, and they’re the ones that are, like, unfiltered, telling me all the different things and fun stories, things that I should try and it’s it’s been so exciting to really be, like, understanding the community more, and I think it’s such an underserved community a lot of ways, like, a lot of times, I think products aren’t usually made with them in mind, or, you know, especially like, I think, in the sexual pleasure space. And so it’s really, really cool to just see, yeah, there’s just so much more to learn. But yeah, I love telling people, like, 50 to 60-year-olds have the strongest orgasms?

Kevin Anthony 53:02
Well, there is a thing that happens as we get older, which is we stop giving a shit. So a lot of, a lot of the, especially for women, a lot of the psychological stuff that might be getting in the way, you tend to let go of, and you’re like, you know what? I’m going to talk to everybody about my orgasms, whereas when you’re younger, you don’t want to talk about it at all, you know. So that’s definitely part of what happens, which is great, because then you get to get the actual data, and they’re happy to share it with you. Like, let me tell you about my last, you know, five sessions, and what I experienced, and all that stuff. So that’s great, incredible. Okay, we are getting close to the end. There are definitely a few more stats. I want to talk about some things that I thought were fun, and then maybe we could talk about a couple of experiments as well before we wrap up.

Kevin Anthony 53:49
But when we were talking about the average length of time it took to orgasm, I do want people to know that that was using a sex toy that was through a masturbation session. I don’t want men thinking that, you know, well, you know, we had sex for 9.96 minutes. She should be having an orgasm by now. It’s going to be different. And of course, the studies that we do that have been done that we know about. When it comes to how long it takes women to orgasm through actual intercourse, it’s closer to 20 or 30 minutes. Yes, so exactly, I want to just preface that before we go into some of this other data, like the average session length, which was eight minutes and 18 seconds, that was the average length, right? That a woman was, was using the toy Correct?

Anna Lee 54:48
Yes. And I will say like, you’re absolutely correct, because this is really the idea that it’s in a perfect condition of, like, you know, there’s no other things happening. You probably, like, chose this moment to masturbate. Like, this is like, a very. Ideal time. And one of the most interesting things we’ve seen about that is you can also rate your sessions from zero stars to five stars. And most often, five-star sessions tend to actually be longer. So I think that’s a fun thing that we often tell people, because I think a lot of people try to get to like, a faster orgasm, but we’ve seen like the orgasms are typically much longer and better, and people rate them as better if the sessions are longer.

Anna Lee 55:27
So we usually tell people like it’s actually better, like, to take more time, really get into it. You know, do a lot more in terms of, like, mindful masturbation, really getting into your body and, like, take longer. So we’ve seen like, 10 plus minute sessions actually be just typically have more five stars then the shorter sessions tend to have like one to three stars. So it’s like a really fun fact we tell people, because I think people always want to get to a faster orgasm, but I will see better orgasms tend like the data at least shows that the longer you take, the better the orgasm is.

Kevin Anthony 55:59
Yeah, and I’m not surprised at all to hear that, because the longer you take, the more sexual energy you’re building within your body, and therefore, you know, the more energy is getting moved and released when you actually orgasm. And this is something, it’s a conversation I have with women a lot. I did an ad at the midway of the show for my women’s coaching program. And, you know, this is a conversation I often have with female clients. When I’m working with them. I say, ladies, I get it. I understand why you go for the quick orgasm. Because most of your men can’t last long enough.

Kevin Anthony 56:33
So you’re like, I just got it. I got to get it in. I got to get something, right, you know. And so you’re racing for it. I said, I get it, I understand. And if you are able to hold off on, you know, my my wife, when she was alive, she used to call that, that fast clitoral orgasm, the genital sneeze, you know, it’s just like the quick, explosive boom, and I’m out kind of thing, yes, but if you can take the time to go longer to build that sexual energy, you can actually have, you know, five star orgasms, as you know, your women report it. So that’s something that I hope women listening hear like, don’t just go for the Quickie, because, you know, when it comes to, you know, sex with their partners, they’re doing it because they just want to get one in because he probably can’t last long enough.

Kevin Anthony 57:22
But they also tend to do the same thing with their masturbation. Oh, you know, just get it over with. Like, I noticed that I move on with my days. Exactly that. These days, a lot of women tend to masturbate just like men. That’s exactly the way a man would approach it, like I’m horny. I just want to, you know, let one go and hurry up and move on with my day. Like, that’s how a lot of men would. Yeah, I tell men not to approach it that way, also, but I just find it interesting that a lot of women tend to do that as well. And so now you have the data to show, no, ladies, it’s in your best interest if you slow down a little bit.

Anna Lee 57:56
Yes, actually, going back to that of like, a lot of the sex experiments we’ve done, I think a lot of them tend to all be geared towards having better orgasms. It’s everything about setting intention. So we’ve done, like, a mood setting one that’s always kind of increasing orgasm edging is like an absolute, like, I will say, like, if you can choose, if I have to, if people ask me, like, what is the best way to have an orgasm? Like, what’s the hack? Like, what do I eat something? Do I whatever? If not caffeine, if not THC, I will say edging is probably the most accessible you could. Do it anywhere, like you don’t need to buy anything. It’s going to increase the orgasm and make it much, much stronger. Mindful masturbation, mood setting, mutual masturbation, things like that, have always kind of seen the better orgasms, and it’s everything to do with, like, intention setting within that masturbation session, yeah.

Kevin Anthony 58:52
And, you know, for women listening again, like, think about that. Think about incorporating some of those things into your practice. You don’t have to just hurry up and do the one-and-done in a manner here, kind of a thing, like, you can actually set the mood and edging. I mean, edging, that’s a thing that people always think of as a male practice, right? Yes, oh, that’s just a male practice. And it’s like, no, ladies, you can actually edge also. And, you know, I can, I can say I’ve had partners where, like, you know, we’re making love, and I can feel that she’s close. And from my perspective, I’m like, go for it, baby, you know? And she’s like, No, I just want to stay right here. Like, I want to kind of ride that edge for a while and then go later on. And that is something that is available to women, whether you’ve realized it or not. So I think that’s pretty cool.

Anna Lee 59:39
Yes, absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 59:41
Let’s see. We already talked about average orgasm length. Another stat you had on here was 22% of the recorded sessions had multiple orgasms. That’s pretty cool.

Anna Lee 59:53
I was actually really surprised by that, because I’m, I am a one-and-done person very often, and I knew that some people might do, like, multiple orgasms, but I felt like 22% was actually quite high, and it was, I think, on average, more than two orgasms within that session. So people are using it like three, like, for the session, the length, the duration of, like, three orgasms or more. And I thought that was actually very surprising, because it’s just like, I think those are, like, the fun facts where you’re like, Oh, I didn’t know that. And being like, oh, maybe being like, Oh, maybe I should try that too. Because clearly these 22% of people know something that I don’t know, and I’m like, okay, maybe I should, like, work on something like that.

Kevin Anthony 1:00:30
I would be curious to know if, out of that 22%, how many of them were in the 51 to 60 group.

Anna Lee 1:00:37
That would be interesting. Actually, maybe that’s the next study we do because, yeah, I would love anything that stacks more of the awesome facts about 51 to 60-year-olds.

Kevin Anthony 1:00:47
I don’t know if this is true, but I’m just curious if you know that age group, because they’re already getting to their orgasm faster. If they tend to be more multi orgasmic than younger age groups, I’d be if you ever figure that out, let me know. Love to know that data. Okay, a couple of other fun little things here. And the most popular time to masturbate, apparently, it was Sunday at 8 pm, like, Yes, I don’t know when do you usually masturbate?

Anna Lee 1:01:20
You know, that’s a great question. I’m actually doing my aggregate data of like 2025 data, and I actually have it somewhere. Let me see if I can pull it up really fast. Um, mine are a little odd, because I did it last year too, and my, I think my last year’s most popular hour of the day was like 12pm, so many people wrote in being like, Don’t you have work like 12 pm and then I was like…..

Kevin Anthony 1:01:43
It’s my company. I make vibrators.

Anna Lee 1:01:47
It’s part of my job, but also a lot of times I’m working from home, and this all things so is a very funny, okay, let me see I found mine. So mine is August was the most popular month, and then 12pm is again, the most popular time of day for me. And then my second most popular 7pm which is, I think, a little more normal, like, I think a little more acceptable for a lot of people. And then my most popular day of the week was Tuesday, which I can’t tell you why. I don’t know why it’s Tuesday. I didn’t actually even think that it was going to be Tuesdays at noon.

Kevin Anthony 1:02:18
Well, I’m glad I record on Monday, otherwise we would have a scheduling conflict.

Anna Lee 1:02:24
Actually, the last year, when I released my own data too, everyone was like, Oh, we like, I think last year was Wednesday. And someone’s like, oh, I guess we shouldn’t ping Anna on Wednesday.

Kevin Anthony 1:02:34
Yes, you shouldn’t,

Anna Lee 1:02:37
Yeah, I guess not, especially at noon, lunchtime, yeah.

Kevin Anthony 1:02:40
Apparently, according to this, the least popular time was Wednesdays at 3am

Anna Lee 1:02:45
Yes, witching hour, yes. And it’s always been like that, like, the 2am 3am is always the least popular, which, I mean, like, I think makes sense. Most people aren’t awake, and this is 3am like, depending on like, time zone wise. Like, it’s like, every time zone, and then 3am and I would say that makes sense, because it’s very often like, your Wednesday is like, you’re kind of in the thick of work. You’re not up at 3am at all, and the weekends tend to be a little bit more popular.

Kevin Anthony 1:03:11
I’ll tell you what I got out of that. When I read that stat, I was like, okay, 3am is the least popular, but that means that there’s a lot of women up masturbating at 1am 2am 5am 4am

Anna Lee 1:03:25
I mean, I think I always say, like, it’s probably like people trying to go to sleep, and so they’re like, oh, I need to get to sleep. And like, masturbating is a good way to do that. Or, like, when the first thing in the morning and then a way to kick off your day.

Kevin Anthony 1:03:36
So I have, I have heard women tell me, like, especially when they’re going through menopause, and they’re having trouble sleeping. I have had a lot of women tell me, like, you know, they’ll just wake up at five in the morning just because they can’t sleep. And they’re like, well, I’ll masturbate. So I’m actually not totally surprised by that. Makes sense to me. All right, a couple more fun things. So in 2024, apparently, the most popular holiday to masturbate was Groundhog Day. That’s got to be some random coincidence. But 2025 2025 surprised me, and I think it says a little something about where we’re at. Yeah, apparently,y in 2025, Valentine’s Day was the most popular day to masturbate. Yes, and that tells holidays, no, tell me. That tells me there are a lot of single people on Valentine’s Day.

Anna Lee 1:04:27
Or, you know, people interested in, like, mutual, like, using a sexy within their relationship?

Kevin Anthony 1:04:31
Okay, well, if that’s skewing the numbers, then I’m happy to hear that. Who knows if it’s a bunch of ladies who are home, sad that they’re single and masturbating instead. Then I was like, oh, man, that’s not cool.

Anna Lee 1:04:46
Yeah, I was really surprised. I would say, like the Groundhogs Day, like it kept being in the past three years, it kept being one of the top three holidays. And I think because we talk about it very often on our social media and things like that. So now people have made it a thing. To masturbate on Groundhog Day, but this year, it lost to Valentine’s Day, which I found very funny. But yeah, we have a special place in our hearts for Groundhog Day. We always, we always mention it on our like social media when it’s Groundhog Day, to be like, don’t forget to masturbate, because this is our most popular holiday, but it’s always the one that like, cracked me up. The first year, we found that we were like, what like, what does that even mean?

Kevin Anthony 1:05:21
But, yeah, it seems totally random to me, but I could see if you were, if you were talking about it, it’s like, you know, when a big investor comes out and talks about something and then creates the very thing that they talked about, because everyone follows them.

Anna Lee 1:05:34
Exactly. We really manifested Groundhog Day to be really relevant.

Kevin Anthony 1:05:38
Again, cool. Yeah, why not? It really wasn’t relevant anyway, so might as well make it something fun. Exactly. I don’t have in front of me the data for the sex experiments, but I know you had mentioned to me some of them, and so I think a lot of your sex experiments were geared around, like, you know, here are things that were enhancing women’s orgasms and stuff. So share what the results of some of those were, what were some of the things that women really found enhanced their experience?

Anna Lee 1:06:08
Yeah, yeah. So every month we release this experiment of the month of like, this is what we’re all going to try and see, like, if our data changes and things like that. And then at the end of the month, we show the results of like, what the aggregate was, and also what yours was. Did it make it better than your baseline? Did it make it worse? And things like that. We’ve done all sorts of fun ones, like socks is one, because there’s like a myth that socks make you have better orgasms, doing it in the nighttime versus daytime, doing it whatever, caffeine, alcohol, mindful, mutual masturbation, edging, all sorts of different kinds of things.

Anna Lee 1:06:43
But I would say in the years that we’ve done it, edging is, like, top-notch. I would say, like, always consistent, higher orgasms, better orgasms. Caffeine is an interesting one. It always does have a little bit more, like stronger orgasms, and they tend to get to the orgasm a little bit quicker. So I always say, like, caffeine is a really easy, accessible one. If you’re not, like, in we don’t obviously do a sex movement on THC, but I will say anecdotally, THCs, we’ve seen consistently like, you definitely have better orgasms, much stronger, and just a lot longer. So I’m always like, if you live in a place that is, you know, accessible, it’s legal, like, it’s an interesting one to try. I think it’s very, very I think there’s something very powerful there that I hope gets studied a lot more. I know there’s a lot of taboo within government to want to really pursue those studies, but I thin,k especially for people having sexual dysfunction, all of that can be an incredible way to really heal.

Kevin Anthony 1:07:40
You could get that done in California. You could get that study done there.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:44
In California. Like THC lubricants always look like an interesting one. But obviously, we don’t do it for sex experiments. We don’t encourage everyone to go do it. But I will always say anecdotally, if you are interested and you have access to it, like really interesting data, and then yeah, I think the ones I’ve said, I think the sex permits, we’ve always seen list on highest in satisfaction has been mindful, masturbation, mood setting, edging, caffeine. And then, yeah, I would say, like, those are the kind of most popular ones.

Kevin Anthony 1:08:19
Where did alcohol fit in on that list?

Anna Lee 1:08:22
Yeah, alcohol is interesting. It’s always, doesn’t do great. And I think I always get the kind of people who are like, really? And then they’re like, Well, I guess that kind of makes sense. It’s kind of the reaction that I get very often. Alcohol always kind of gets low or like, people don’t actually finish to have an orgasm with the alcohol one. And to me, it makes a lot of sense, at least, that’s like, how my body works. Like, I’ve had alcohol data, like, on my own data, and I’m always like, alcohol, like, I just know is not going to help get to an orgasm. It’s going to take forever in the worst way possible. And then I, like, have a hard time concentrating, and when it happens, it’s not that exciting to me. So to me, it makes sense. But yeah, people always are like, really, because it’s kind of like what people call the social lubricant, but it might make it more like the experience of this, the journey of it a lot more fun, but at least the outcome of the orgasm is always a little bit disappointing.

Kevin Anthony 1:09:17
And I’m not at all surprised to hear that either, which is why I asked about it specifically, because it does have that reputation as the social lubricant. But my personal experience and the experience of many people I’ve worked with say that when it comes to the actual experience of sex itself, it actually gets in the way. Not only does it make it harder for women to orgasm, it actually makes it harder for men to orgasm, and it actually makes it harder for men to achieve and maintain an erection as well. So we have this idea that, Oh, you know, if we go out and have a few drinks, we’re more likely to have, you know, sex, and it’s going to be great and all that. And that the data, and, you know, my anecdotal experience, do not prove that at all. It actually. Proves the opposite. And so I just wanted people to hear that the only thing alcohol does is lower your inhibitions and make it such that you are more likely to end up naked in bed with somebody having sex, exactly, but everything from there on out is probably not gonna be as great.

Anna Lee 1:10:15
Yeah. So I’m always like, if you want to dance at a club, you want to make out with somebody, like, grind on someone. Yes, alcohol can definitely help you do that. But the orgasm itself, it’s consistently does not show good data results, and I think that always disappoints people. But then I think the more that people think about they’re like, I guess that makes sense. So, yeah, I think we’re all on the same page.

Kevin Anthony 1:10:34
You know, both of us, you and I, are trying to help people have better orgasms and better sex. So it’s important for them to know that alcohol is not helping you. People, it’s not helping you.

Anna Lee 1:10:50
Yes, if you’re gonna do something at least, then drink a cup of coffee, that’ll help a little bit more.

Kevin Anthony 1:10:55
Yeah, absolutely. All right, and it has been a pleasure having you on the show. I found this stuff really fascinating. I hope the listeners also tell people how they can find out about your products and anything else that you want to share with them.

Anna Lee 1:11:11
Yeah, so our website is lioness, like a female line.io. You can find us on Instagram at lioness health. You can find that I also post, like, my own data, and like, I do my own little experiments, like, within myself, and then I show my data. So you could find me on Instagram as Anna is average, or on Tiktok as Anna the average. I’m some point gonna merge them. I don’t know why my both screen names are totally different from each other. And then you can always purchase the line is on our website, and we actually have a code for the listeners here. The code is Love Lab, and you’ll get $20 off, and that’ll be readily available to you as soon as this podcast goes out.

Kevin Anthony 1:11:52
Yeah, and that code and the link are in the description, so you can check that out. And thank you again for coming on the show. And you know, first of all, thank you for doing what you do. I think, I think that we’ve got so much more data now than we had before, and I just think that’s so important. So thank you for that. And then, of course, thank you for coming on the show and sharing it with us.

Anna Lee 1:12:13
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Hopefully, the more fun things we learn, I’ll come back and tell you all the fun knowledge and research that we’ve done. It’s a forever-growing thing, so it’ll be a lot of fun.

Kevin Anthony 1:12:24
Awesome, yeah, for sure, if you do new studies and you have new interesting data, I would love to have you back on and talk about it.

Anna Lee 1:12:30
Thank you so much.

Kevin Anthony 1:12:33
All right, everybody, that’s all the time I have for this episode, and I will see you next week.

Kevin Anthony 1:12:44
I hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe, leave me a review, and share it with your friends. And for more free exclusive content, join me in the passion vault at https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. Thanks for listening and remember, as Celine used to say, you’re amazing!