Kevin Anthony 0:05
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex, whether you’re a man or woman, single or a couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex of your life.

All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 352 and it is titled, are you in relationship shape? So this is, I think, going to be a great topic, because it’s something that comes up fairly regularly. In fact, I don’t want to let the cat out of the bag too early, but I am working on a new coaching program with a group of other coaches. And the reason why we are doing this is because there is a matchmaking company that has reached out and wanted this to happen, because they’re finding that the people coming into their programs are basically not in relationship shape. In other words, they don’t have the skills to successfully navigate a relationship.

And so they’re like, how can we get people up to speed so that the chance of success when they do get into a relationship is significantly higher? So that’s why I think this is just such a timely conversation for me, because this whole thing is happening at the same time that I have this guest on to talk about, how do you like what? What does it even mean to be in relationship shape? How do you get into relationship shape? We have a whole bunch of things to talk about. I have a list of seven relationship muscles that come from my guest two that I really want to dive into. So there’s a lot to talk about here. I hope that you find this is fascinating, as I do, at least as far as a topic goes.

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All right. My guest today is Roy Bianca Lana. He is a certified relationship coach and a nationally recognized expert in the field of attraction and conscious relationships, and the host of the attracting, lasting love podcast, along with being a frequent TV analyst, Roy is the author of three number one best selling books, the latest of which is relationship boot camp, hardcore training for life, love and the pursuit of intimacy. For the past 15 years, Roy has been supporting single people in the art of attracting healthy, sustainable intimate relationships. His experience has taught him that getting in relationship shape is the key to attracting lasting love. Welcome to the show, Roy.

Roy Biancalana 3:44
It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Kevin Anthony 3:47
All right. Well, I kind of pitched it at the beginning. We used the term relationship shape, yeah, but we got to define it. What are we talking about when we say relationship shape? What does that mean?

Roy Biancalana 4:01
You know, one of my pet peeves about relationships, because probably, like you and a lot of the listeners and viewers, you’ve read a lot of relationship books, and too often, they are very clinical and kind of written in shrink speak, and they’re philosophical and sort of difficult to relate to and apply. And so I wanted to have a conversation about how to attract a healthy, sustainable relationship, but I wanted to put it in ways that you know could be a bit more playful, a bit more fun, and maybe a bit easier to understand. So I kind of use the fitness metaphor, right? You want to get in shape, and you want to be healthy, and you want to be fit. And I actually think you could probably find seven components to being physically fit, whether. It’s a, you know, aerobic training, strength training, you know, core stability, flexibility, nutrition, hydration, and rest, like the seven, right?

So I started thinking like, what are the areas of our life where, like, or quote, what are the muscles in our life that we need to have be strong and use the word skills, right? What are the areas of our lives in terms of relating that need to be strong and fit so that we can relate in conscious, mindful ways and have a relationship work? And I came up with seven, seven ways that we need to learn to function and to get stronger. We don’t need we don’t need to be perfect in these areas, but we need some mastery. The words you use that we need some mastery in these seven important areas if we’re going to be ready for something real. And like one of the analogies that I like to use to help people make a shift here, because most of the time when we talk about someone’s wants to find a relationship, they want to find their life partner, we get things a little bit backwards. So I like to use the analogy of someone who wants to do well in a triathlon, right? The day-long endurance test, right?

So, imagine someone wants to do well in a triathlon. Imagine I’m a former Ironman champion, which I am not, right, but I’m a former champion, now I’m a coach, and I help people who want to do well in triathlons. So somebody comes to me and says, Roy, can you help me, you know, do well in this upcoming triathlon? Sure. Let’s talk about it. And then we sit down, and they start asking me questions about what I would call race day, like, how do you survive in the water? And you know, you’re out there all day. So what kind of food do you eat? How much do you eat? When do you eat right? And they’re asking me all these questions about their race day strategy, which are fine, but as a former champion, I’m like, these are not the questions you should be asking me about. You should be asking me about, how do I get my butt in shape for this race? Because you could have the greatest strategy in the world, but if you get on that starting line and you’re 50 pounds overweight, you’re not going anywhere. You’re never going to go the distance.

So it’s important to focus on your fitness rather than your strategy. So now we turn that around, and I’m a relationship coach, and people come to me and they ask me race day questions, Hey boy, where do I go to meet somebody special? Or what online platform should I use to meet the kind of person that I would like to be with? Or how do I get someone to approach me? Or how do I approach them? Or what do I say? How do I flirt? And I’m like, Okay, those are important questions. That’s not what you should be asking me about. You should be asking me, Roy, how do I get myself ready for something real? Because you are going to get on the starting line at some point, whether you meet someone via online dating or maybe the universe just bumps you into someone. I met my wife at a personal growth conference. I just sat down next to her. We just started flirting and talking to each other. At some point, you’re going to find yourself on the starting line, and I call that the moment. You’re face-to-face with someone. However it happens, if you are not already in relationship shape, you’ll never go the distance with that person. You’re not ready.

So instead of talking about, where do I go to meet someone, the focus really needs to be, what do I need to do to get my relationship muscles in shape, so that whenever the universe does whatever it does, I’m ready. I’m ready to connect in a meaningful way, to connect in a way that ends drama, to connect in a way where I’m not relating from my past pain, right? To know how to communicate, to know how to handle somebody’s emotions, my emotions, how to talk about all those things, right? So it’s all about developing as you mentioned, your opening there, your skill set, you could say, and so that you’re ready. So when I say, are you in relationship shape, that’s what I’m talking about. Are you ready for something real? And I’ll say one more thing, most people, our ego, my ego is so arrogant. We think that we’re in good shape. We think that the reason my love life hasn’t been so good is because everybody else I’ve dated has not been in good relationship shape, but I have got my shit together.

And I’m just here to tell you, you need, you need to resist the idea that all your muscles are nice and strong and you don’t have anything to work on. Yes, you do. Your love life has gone the way it’s gone because of you, not because of them. If, if you’ve been with people who have had problems and dysfunctional ways of relating and stuff, part of that is because you attracted them. Part of the part of that is because you didn’t recognize that upfront. So we need to take responsibility for the way our love lives have gone and open up to the possibility that maybe I’m not ready for something real, or maybe I just need to get a little stronger, maybe in a couple of areas, right? We got these seven muscles, maybe, maybe four or five of them, you’re good. Let me even two or three of them, you’re not so good, right? So that’s the pitch I make to people, is to focus less on where do I find them, and what do I need to work on within myself so that I’m ready to connect with someone in a lasting way? Does that make sense?

Kevin Anthony 11:13
Oh, absolutely. And you know, I really love that you’re here talking about this, because it’s such a huge focus of my work as well. You said a couple of things there that I thought bear repeating. The first one is when you use an analogy, like, you know, a triathlon, or, you know, an Iron Man, or something like that. Obviously, everybody realizes, like, Oh, I’m going to need to train for that. I’m going to need to learn skills for that. I’m gonna need to really master the bike and the swim and the run, right, right, like they get that right. But one of the things that has always bothered me is that your relationship is one of the most important things in your entire life, and yet most people do not understand that they actually have to learn and master the skills in that area.

Also, they completely take it for granted, and they just wing it, you know, fly by the seat of their pants based on, you know, what I don’t know, what they observed their parents do, which was wrong, or what they see on TV or movies. And I have this conversation a lot with people who want to work with me when they’re kind of on the edge, like, I don’t know, do I really want to do this or not? One of the things they’ll often say is, well, maybe I should just wait until I get into a relationship. Then maybe you can help me out. And it’s just like, Ah, no, no, no, no. Learn the skills now before you get into a relationship, so you don’t F everything up once you’re in it, right? And so it’s just if people could take one thing away from this. I mean, I know it’s only, we’re only one question into the podcast so far, but if they could take one thing away from it, it is that to really have successful, highly functioning, long-lasting relationships. You’ve got to learn the skills to do so. It doesn’t come naturally to any of us, right?

Roy Biancalana 13:10
That is so true. And I like to say, you know, if, if all you want in a relationship is like a mediocre thing where you, you know, put up with each other and don’t kill each other, well, then you don’t need any training for that, right? But if you want something extraordinary, right? If you want a great relationship, the one that you enjoy immensely, that’s a different story. It’s kind of like if you just want to go out and play golf and just shoot 150 and hack it around. You don’t need any lessons, but if you want to be a good golfer, like a really good golfer, that’s a whole different ball game, right? So you’re exactly right. We don’t view relationships like we would view anything else, right?

And I maintain that relating with another human being over time in a healthy way is the hardest thing in the world to do, way harder than doing some damn triathlon, way harder living with another human being who’s going to be almost completely opposite of you, different backgrounds. They’ve been raised differently. They have different points of view. And you’re going to try to be intimate with this person who might be like, from another planet, right? Men are from Mars and women are from Venus, kind of thing. It’s like, that’s a really hard thing to do. So yeah, we don’t view it that way. We don’t view training. And then we could go into days of conversations about, if this is so important, why don’t they teach this stuff in school?

Speaker 1 14:47
Oh, that’s a whole other side, right? Nobody teaches it in church.

Roy Biancalana 14:51
Nobody teaches in school, nobody in college. You know, it’s like being a parent. The other most important thing you’ll do, no training, no nothing. You just come home from the hospital with this thing, like, now, what do I do? Right?

Kevin Anthony 15:05
You’re absolutely right. I am going to disagree with you on one point, though, and that is, I’m pretty sure I would need a couple of lessons in golf, even from the get-go, because otherwise I’d probably get thrown out for taking chunks of the turf out every time I swing. But other than that, I’m joking aside. Of course, I’m 100% in agreement with everything that you shared. You know, another piece that you shared, also that is important, is that you mentioned that, you know, most people feel like there isn’t really much, if any, work that they have to do. The reason why they’ve had all these failed relationships is just because, well, because all my partners happen to be narcissists, right?

Or because she did this, he did that, blah, blah, blah. And it’s really important to point out that a relationship is a co-creation between two people, and both people bring themselves into it, and they bring their own baggage with them, right? And so, you know, this is something I talk about all the time with people, when they come to me, and it’s only, it’s only one of them, right, whether it’s the man or the woman, and they come to me, they don’t want to fix their relationship, and they’re like, I don’t really know if it’s going to work, though, because my partner refuses to come, you know, to the coaching work. And one of the things I say to them all the time is, okay, would it be more effective if both of you were working on this absolutely? However, some of the biggest shifts you’ll ever see come from right in here. Yeah, right. So, working on yourself, your half, even if that’s all you ever did was work on your end of the relationship, you will still see positive changes.

Roy Biancalana 16:40
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned earlier about people attracting narcissists, right? And, of course, those, they’re out there. But the fun question is, why are you attracting them, right? Like, what’s your part in being interested in that kind of thing? And then the other thing you just said is, yeah, just working on yourself. I often think of it like playing tennis. Okay, you’re in a relationship, and you’re playing tennis, and you’re hitting the ball to them, right to them, and they’re hitting it back, and you’re, you’re just going back and forth across the net playing together, right? So you go to, you go to coaching, it’d be great if they like you said, if we both took tennis lessons, we could really improve, except if you go get coaching on your own, you start to show up in healthier, more mindful, conscious ways.

And when you do that, just like in tennis, as soon as you hit the ball a little different part of the court, they have to react right. You start playing differently. They have to play differently with you, otherwise, something’s going to go on tilt, right? So your relationship will change, if only you change because you’re showing up differently, you’re not going to respond to your triggers, maybe the same way, so you don’t get in the same kind of argument, or maybe you handle your emotions in a different way, which then sets the whole relationship on a whole different path. So doing your own work is always the starting place, and that’s what we’re preaching here. You know, we everybody have a coach for everything, we have financial advisors, right? We have tax planners. We have new we might have a physical fitness trainer. We have other people on with I’ve somebody cuts my hair. I have all kinds of people in my life that help me do things like, why don’t we have a relationship coach? Why is there some sort of stigma, like there’s something wrong with you? You’re weak if you have a coach in your pocket to help you figure out how to relate with your children, with your parents, with your friends, with your intimate partner. But it’s the hardest stuff in the world to do you and I will keep preaching this until we don’t need to anymore.

Kevin Anthony 18:59
We will absolutely keep preaching it until this is no longer a problem in society. But you’re right, and this is something I say all the time, like, people don’t think twice about hiring a personal trainer or hiring a nutrition coach, or, you know, hiring, you know, a coach for any golf instructor, right? But then, when it comes to one of the most important things, you know, the person that they’re going to share potentially the rest of their life with and do all of the biggest moments of life with. Yeah, I don’t need any help with that.

Roy Biancalana 19:30
Right? I just need to find a better partner. Yeah, exactly, that was my deal, right? I mean, I can speak from experience on this. I mean, I was married for 19 years, and that became a kind of a platonic, co-parenting thing, and then I went through a divorce and rebounded into a relationship that was like, kind of all sex. We got engaged, she dumped me six months before the wedding, and that just put me in a year-long midlife crisis. I was a mess. Yes, I joined like, four different dating sites to help me find, you know, I’ve got to find me a new woman. Help me forget about that one. And you know, I was just a nightmare. And at that point, a friend of mine said, right, maybe, maybe you should work with someone.

And I gotta tell you, Kevin, I didn’t even know what they were, what they meant. What do you mean? Work with someone. See, in my mind, my love life, this terrible relationship history I had, was because I just hadn’t met the right woman yet, right? Oh, my ex-wife was this, and oh, my ex-fiancé was that, and all you crazy women online, it never occurred to me that maybe I had something to do with it, right? It? It makes me laugh, but I really did, like, why would I need to get a coach? Maybe they need a coachman. I don’t need one, right? And I eventually broke down because I was in so much pain. And I did trust my friend when he said, Roy, no, you need to go talk. And when I worked with a coach, you know, the punch line to this was, it really was my fault. I mean, I really, it really, I was the common denominator in these pictures.

And I should say, No, my ex wife had issues, and my ex fiance, of course, they had their issues, but I I really learned that no dude without what, what you were up to, without the things that you didn’t know you were doing because you were not in great relationship shape. That’s, that’s, that was the reason why it was a nightmare, right? So I worked with a coach, and I started getting myself in relationship shape and been married now for 17 years, and it’s going great. So I became a coach, Kevin, just to help other people. The way my coach helped me, I can tell you real quick my first session with her, because she knew my history a bit, and I had filled her in on being married and then divorced, and the rebound and engaged and dumped and the whole thing. First thing she said to me, she’s like, Roy, I don’t want to hear about any of these women in your life. I don’t want to hear about your ex-wife and what she did or didn’t do. I don’t want to hear about your ex-fiancé. I don’t want to hear about these crazy women you met online. I want to know if you want to look in the mirror, you want to talk about them. We’re done right here. I actually have no interest in that. That’s not going to help you.

But if you want to look in the mirror, if you want to ask yourself, what is my part in making my love life be the way it’s been? I’m all in, man, because that is where life is going to change, but you’ve got to be willing to do your work and look in the mirror. And I kicked and screamed about that, like, how dare you act like it’s my fault? She’s like, No, it’s not your fault. It’s just that you’re not aware of something’s going on in you, Roy, that’s responsible for this stuff. Do you want to discover what it is? Because it’s, it’s just not them. There’s something you’re doing. And so I broke down, and I said, Okay, I’ll, I’ll look in this stupid mirror, and oh my god, I discovered I had all kinds of mommy issues that I don’t know if we want to talk about them, but I had a dysfunctional relationship with my mother that was playing itself out in my adult relationships, and I had no idea what was running me, the script that was that was just operating in me unconsciously, all I saw was the results it was doing, but I didn’t know where it was coming from.

And when I saw that, I’m like, Oh my God, no wonder my love life has been the way it is. So then I just worked on my mommy issues, fixed that up, met somebody very quickly, fell in love, got married. We’re doing great. I’m just a coach because I want to help other people have the same experience. Because I didn’t get lucky, Kevin, like the stars didn’t, you know, align for me, I simply followed a process, and I did a certain kind of work that’s transferable. And I just tell people, you do the same kind of work I did, you get the same results I got. Simple as that.

Kevin Anthony 24:20
Those are some really powerful words from your coach. And this is one of the things that I think is so great about coaching. I have nothing against traditional therapy. I think, you know, there are wonderful therapists out there, and there are obviously some not-so-wonderful therapists out there, but sure, one of the things I’ve noticed with therapy is rarely will a therapist ever, just in the first session, say those words to you, right? They will go through a lengthy process of listening to all of that. And sometimes I think coaching can just cut through all that. BS, right? And just get straight to it and say, Look, if you want to just talk about the past and all the things that you’re ex did to you, I’m not interested. But if you want to get serious and figure out where your issues lie and fix them, then we can do it right?

So I think that was really powerful of your coach to say to you. It’s very similar to the way that I approach coaching as well. I don’t like to spend a lot of time rehashing somebody’s past. I want just enough details to be able to recognize your patterns, right, right? So I want to hear just enough so that I can start to see where your patterns in your behaviors and your relating exist, because once I can see those patterns, then I know where to focus, yep, yep. All right. We are, believe it or not, almost halfway through the show already. Let me pause now for a quick break, and then I want to come back and talk about the seven relationship muscles, because that’s, that’s a place I really want to focus some time.

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All right, let’s get back to the topic here. I think we made a pretty strong case for the fact that everybody needs to learn some skills, and that one of the best ways to do that is to hire a coach and allow yourself to get really honest about where you’re at. So let’s talk next, then, about what you’re calling the seven relationship muscles, because I think this will help make it a little bit more clear when we say you need to do the work. What are we actually working on? Right? So let’s start with that you can. I mean, I don’t know if you have them in a particular order or not, but I have an order here based on our earlier conversation. If you just want to dive in and start talking about the seven relationship muscles.

Roy Biancalana 27:37
Well, yeah, because we don’t have four or five hours here, I’ll jump in and talk about one that I think is, like a foundational one that, until you clear this up, working on your skills. You know, when I think of skills, I think of, okay, these are the things now that I’m going to do is the ways I’m going to show up, the ways I’m going to interact. I think that becomes difficult if you haven’t dealt with what I call your relationship to your past. Okay, so that’s one of your relationship muscles is your relationship to your past. And the issue is not that we have a past, because I sort of often joke, the only people that don’t have baggage are the babies in the maternity ward. Okay, so we’ve, we’ve all been hurt. We’ve all got scars and bumps and bruises and wounds. Some of us have had major trauma, right? So there’s a spectrum.

But we’ve all had past pain, and what we really need to ask ourselves is, our past, is it merely something that happened, or is it happening? Right? For most of us, our past is still alive in us. It’s still there, and because of that, it gets between us and a new person. We relate through our past. It’s like looking through a pair of sunglasses. I’m looking through a lens at you. So when our past is alive in us, we’re going to be guarded in some way or suspicious, or we’re going to develop a kind of wall around our heart, because a wall will keep you safe, but a wall will keep you single, right? Nobody can get in to hurt you, but nobody can get in to love you either, right? But when we’ve been hurt, when we’ve been betrayed, lied to, cheated on, ghosted, gaslighted, whatever it might be. Those are serious things, and they hurt. And a part of the human instinct is, I don’t want to have that happen again. I don’t want to be hurt like that again, so that pain is still real. It’s it’s you. Really never been worked through and sort of released to where it’s just something that happened. It’s still sort of alive in us, wanting to protect us, which makes perfect sense, except that now it leads to what I try to make this playful, because it’s such a painful topic. It really is what I want to call like a menage a trois from hell, right?

It’s me and this woman and my past, and the three of us are in this relationship together, right? And, if we’re honest, it’s probably a menage a trois from hell, right? It’s me and my past and you and your past, and it’s in right? And so I’m really not able to open up and trust and authenticity and vulnerability with you, because the past is alive in me, and I’m too afraid to do that. So I’m going to play some sort of game. I’m going to maybe make this relationship go slower than it should, or I’m going to approach the relationship kind of with the attitude, covertly or even overtly, that you need. I’m not going to trust you until you prove to me that you’re trustworthy. So many people who have a past alive that’s alive in them, start a relationship from you have to prove yourself to me, right? So when we do that, if you’re meeting a good quality person, they’re going to be able to sense that something’s going on, that they’re being held accountable for something they haven’t done, and a good quality person just has no interest in proving that they’re trustable to you. That’s not about me, and frankly, I’m going to go to that woman over there who’s got her arms wide open, is ready to dance, and ready to play, right?

Because I didn’t bring a sledgehammer to this date. I want to break down your walls, right? So we really need to take this issue seriously. How much is our past still alive in us? How much is it keeping us from being really emotionally available, really vulnerable, playful, willing to engage, like coming from a relationship where you start, the starting point is I trust you and I’m open to you and I’m available to you until you show me I shouldn’t be. Once you show me I shouldn’t be, I’m going to kick you in the balls and send you down the road. You the road metaphorically, right? But most of us, when our past is alive in us, we don’t start from that. We’re starting from the fear. I’m not letting you in until you prove this to me. And that just sets up a weird dynamic, you know, versus starting from I’m here, right? I’m available, right?

So we often need to do some work on learning how to let go of our past and finding forgiveness for ourselves, for other people, processing those feelings and the grief, so that it’s still there in our memory, we still know what happened, but now it’s not between me and this next person, and now I can meet you for you, and I can open up to you for who you are, and I can judge you for who you are. I’m not projecting any of my past onto you and expecting you or looking for ways that you might be like them, and all the things we do. So this is an enormous issue, and working through the past, I have a whole way I do that with my clients. There’s a process I’m sure you do, too, Kevin. There’s a way of letting go of your past so that you can be available and present.

You know, in the present moment, it’s beyond the scope of what we can do here, but I’m saying it so that people say, okay, so if you, if you’re talking about getting ready for something real, getting in relationship shape, if you’re talking about that means letting go of my past, okay, oh, now I know what you’re talking about. It’s like, oh, oh, if that’s what it means to be in shape, then, okay, maybe I’m not in as great a shape, because I’ve had a couple of people cheat on me, and I have trust issues. I really have a hard time, you know, opening up and being vulnerable. I know I should, but that’s hard for me, because my dad betrayed me, because I had a I had other people doing things hurting me, and this is difficult. And I’m like, yeah, so there’s no shame in having a past like this, but we need to work through it for sure. Yeah, that’s just, that’s just one of them.

Kevin Anthony 35:00
It’s very foundational, right? Because your past is part of who you are, right? But if you’re allowing it to continue to run the show, right, as you said, is it did it happen? Or is it happening? If it’s currently happening, it’s going to influence everything that happens throughout your life, including your relationship. And so if you have negative experiences, which we all do, it’s like you said, let’s be honest here, right? Like they say about life, you know, nobody gets out alive, right? But nobody gets out unscathed either, right? Like stuff happens, and that’s just part of the human experience. But we have to figure out ways, like you said, to let it go. And I always like the idea, you know, I don’t know if you know who Ken Wilber is. He’s kind of, oh, sure, okay. So if you know Ken Wilber, for the audience, if you’re not familiar, he’s considered like a modern-day philosopher, and he’s written a bunch of books, but one of his ideas is this idea of transcending and including, right?

And so it’s this idea that we’re not telling you you need to completely divorce yourself from your past or forget it, or repress it, or anything like that. It is part of what makes you who you are. So that’s the include part, the Transcend part, though, is that you can move beyond that, and you are no longer a victim or a slave to the things that happened to you in the past, right? So, like you said, you can still remember those things from the past, of course, but you’re not allowing them to run the show anymore, right, right, right? And that is, that is a huge, huge piece, and that is something that a lot of people, you know, I will say that in my coaching, a lot of times, people are aware that they’ve had past things, right? And they’ll say, Well, my partner cheated on me, or, you know, they lied to me, or they whatever. So they’re like, they’re aware that those things happened and that they’re influencing them, but they either don’t think it’s affecting them currently, or even if they do, they have no idea what to do about it, right?

Roy Biancalana 37:08
Yeah, that’s what I find, and that’s where good coaching comes in. I’m like, I know what to do about it. I can help you with that, right? So the part I can’t help you is a person recognizing all right, this is an issue that’s standing in the way of my ability to be close. I have a trust issue. I have some past pain. I don’t know what to do about it, but I know that it’s an issue for me. As long as a person’s got that, then I can work with you. And I gotta say, Kevin, I’m impressed. There aren’t very many coaches who are familiar with. Ken Wilber. Well, why? Thank you. Wilbur is probably the most profound thinker on spiritual and psychological issues in the last 100 years. The guy is an absolute genius, and his writings are really deep, so cool. Good for you.

Kevin Anthony 38:04
Yeah, I’ve always liked his stuff. I’ve read some of his books. I used to have a good friend who, unfortunately, is no longer with us, who was a big fan of Ken Wilber, and he and I would just sit for hours by his pool and discuss Ken’s ideas and what they mean. Oh, yeah, and all of that fascinating stuff anyway, aside from that tangent, yes, exactly. That’s only one of the seven muscles, right? That’s just one of them. So give me another one.

Roy Biancalana 38:34
Ok, I call this one your relationship to your inner truth, okay? Is when you’re in a relationship shape, you know, it’s what are you doing with what’s going on inside of you? Are you revealing or concealing? Okay? And the way I like to frame this is, I often like a playful kind of question, like a would you rather? Like, would you rather be in a relationship that was characterized by playing games, withholds, manipulation, lies, and outright deceit, or would you rather be in a relationship that’s characterized by openness and transparency and authenticity, and being real? Right?

I’ve never had anybody say they want to be in a relationship that’s about playing games until they learn what it actually means to be real and authentic. Okay? What it means to be real and authentic is that I first know what’s real inside of me. I know my inner truth like I know everything from my body sensations. I know what I’m thinking about, what my thought stream is. I know what my emotional experience is. I know what I want is, any desire I might have ,like I’m present with my inner experience. Experience, I often say what’s happening in Royville. I know what’s going on in Royville. Okay, now I’m armed with that information. If I’m able to be present with myself and know these things, which is a skill in itself, okay? Once I have that, if I want to be in that authentic, transparent, real relationship, then I am going to tell you what’s happening in royville, whether or not I think you’re going to like it or not, whether or not I think it’s going to scare you or freak you out, whether or not it’s going to get me what I want or not get me the outcome I want. I’m just committed to being real. So I am going to date naked. Okay?

I There’s not gonna be any secrets here. I’m gonna let you know how I feel about you, what I want, what my emotions are, what’s going on inside of me from the very beginning. Okay, now I don’t mean you’re telling someone how much money you make on a first date, and your sexual history, and your medical history. I’m not talking about that kind of stuff there. There’s a certain time when that kind of Revelation is important, right? I’m just talking about, I’m on a date with a girl, and let’s just, let’s just say that. To make up a scenario. So I haven’t been on a date in three months. I’ve been doing online dating, and it’s been really frustrating. I’ve met this woman online, and she’s really cute, and we texted each other a couple of times, man, and I’m excited about this girl. Man, she’s beautiful, and I think this could go somewhere I haven’t met her yet in person, and I’m already hoping for a second date and a third date. I’m just really interested in this, so we get together for our first coffee date. Do I tell her that if you want to not play games, I say, You know what? I have been so excited about meeting you, I got to tell you, I’m already hoping that we have a second and third date.

Now, I don’t know how you’re going to take that, but it’s true. I think you’re fantastic. I’m already sort of into you, and I just, I really don’t even know you from what I know, though, man, I want to know more. So all of that’s the truth. I actually am feeling that way, but see, most dating coaches would look at some, you could never say something like that. She’s gonna think you’re needy. You’re gonna think you’re coming on too strongly. And I’m like, I don’t care about that. Is it true or is it not? Because you said you wanted to be on you want to be in an authentic relationship. That means I’m telling you what’s authentically true over here, I am thinking about our second, third date. I am having these emotions of excitement and enthusiasm, and I am already into you. You can judge me if you want. It’s up to you, right?

But it is the truth, and I’m not trying to control the outcome. I just want to be real. That’s the game I’m playing, right? So we have to decide, do we want to play games? And try to figure out who do I need to be and what do I need to say to make sure I get the outcome I want right, and how to manipulate and calculate and, you know, try to control everything so that they feel about me the way I want them to, that they have the impression of me that I want them to and I kind of get what I want. Am I going to do it that way, which is the way everybody dates, or am I going to let go of control? Trust God, trust the universe. Trust whatever you want to make it and say, I’m not doing any of that. I’m just going to know what’s real, and I’m going to tell you, and then we’ll see what happens. That is the easiest way to date. Kevin, I don’t know about you, I get people coming to me all the time, working with me. I haven’t been single in 20 years. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know how to date. I don’t know how to do it. I don’t know. Yeah, you do what you’re asking me is you don’t know how to play the game. Well, if you want to know how to play the game, you’ve got the wrong coach. Dating is the easiest thing in the world. Know what you’re wanting, thinking, feeling, tell them, yeah, live out loud, just like be naked, just here it is.

Kevin Anthony 44:23
I mean, you’re absolutely right, and once again, I’m in 100% agreement with you. And it’s, it’s something that is so interesting, because you’re right. Most people want to play the game, and even if they don’t necessarily want to play the game, they think they have to play the game, right? One of the things that I’m telling them all the time is no games, just be yourself, right, right? And I like the way that you’re phrasing it using a slightly different language, which is basically knowing your inner truth and then speaking it, yeah, right. And you know, if we’re talking because, you know, we’re not necessarily talking about men or women here. But let’s, of course, let’s just take the example of. Of being on the side of the man. So if you’re a man and you’re out there and you’re dating, what is it that she’s sitting across from you at this table on your date? What is it that she’s really looking for?

She’s looking for that authenticity. She wants to know that you were actually excited to go on this date, right? But you’re over there going, well, if I tell her that she’s gonna think I’m too needy, or on this or this or that, right? And then you start strategizing and telling yourself all these stories in your head and trying to sort of game the whole thing, when you could just be honest. And the reality is, if you are honest and upfront about who you are and they don’t like it well, better to find that out right from the start, right?

Roy Biancalana 45:44
Of course, right? And this whole needy thing, who’s not needy? I’m like, shut up, right? I mean, come on. I mean, you wouldn’t be on the knee a date if you weren’t needing to meet someone. So I like we play this game. I’m not needy, but I sure want to meet you, right? It’s like, yeah. But here’s the other thing you just mentioned, something very powerful. You know, the law of attraction is an interesting thing. It’s For Me. Anyway, there’s a lot of hocus pocus nonsense when people talk about it, but it is a real thing, and it just simply means to me that like attracts like. Birds of a feather flock together. And what this means is that if you always attract someone who sort of plays in the same game, you are meaning, if you’re going to play this authenticity game, this real game, I’m going to, I just going to, I know what’s going on inside of me. I’m going to, I’m a revealer. I’m not a concealer. I’m just going to be vulnerable and be transparent with you.

That will attract someone who likes that, who wants to relate that way with you. It won’t attract someone who wants to play the coy game, the mystery, and, you know, the innuendo, and it’ll turn them off. But if you want to be authentic and be really good, turn that perfect person; you don’t want to be with that person because they don’t want the same kind of relationship, right? So the law of attraction can work for you or against you, right? If you’re playing games, you’re going to attract somebody else’s playing games, right? And if you’re kind of like, I’m trying to control this situation, they’re going to be doing the same thing. And then I don’t know how they feel about me because they said this, but then they did this. No, you’ll know how I feel about you, because I’m gonna tell you, yeah, because I know how I feel about you. So you’re like to me in a great conscious relationship, you never have to guess how a person feels about you because they’re telling you. I’m angry at you, I’m horny, I’m happy, I’m in love with you, I’m intrigued by you, I’m annoyed by you. You’re just gonna know because I’m gonna tell you now, obviously, so simple, and people that like that will be attracted to it. So then we can be in a relationship where, okay, this is how we’re going to do it. We’re going to be real with each other. Oh, we’re compatible in ways that actually matter.

Kevin Anthony 48:17
Yeah, and I was going to say, obviously, in a healthy relationship where we’re telling people those things, we’re doing it in a compassionate way. I just want to make sure people understand that and don’t, don’t take you the wrong way, and be like, oh, you know, Roy said, I can just say it however. I want to say, no, that’s not what we mean. You’re saying in a compassionate way. But the point is that you’re actually voicing it, that’d be real me. Yeah, you’re being real.

Roy Biancalana 48:39
There’s no need to try to, as an example, play games. You could be on a date with someone. You’re at a restaurant, and the server comes by, and you feel like your partner was a little rude to the server, and you notice that kind of was a turn-off the way that they spoke to that person. So then the server walks away to get drinks or whatever, and you say, Boy, I notice that I had a reaction to the way you were with with the server there, that it felt rude, and I noticed myself pulling away, maybe wondering, were you the kind of person that I want to be in a relationship with? So I just thought I’d share that with you. That’s what happened over here when you interacted with that person. So you’re being compassionate, but, but you are saying, This is what happened over here in royalville When I saw you deal with the server, and I just want to let you know, and I think the benefit of doing stuff like that would be really hard to do for most people, is that the reaction that you get is going to tell you a lot about the quality of the person.

Because if they’re like, Oh, what a bitch you are, yeah, you’re sensitive, you’re so judgmental, and I can’t believe it, right? Oh, okay. But if they’re like, you know what? You’re right? You. Thank you. I was an asshole. They call the servers, you know, I apologize. I don’t know what the deal was. I’m nervous. I’m on a first date with this person. I don’t know what the deal was, but I apologize for being a jerk. Whoa. Now I have a person who received some negative feedback and responded and took responsibility, and error corrected. Your stock just went through the roof, right? Just because I’m being real with how I experienced you. And then I get to see how you respond to my being real.

Kevin Anthony 50:36
You’re 100% right. The reaction will tell you a lot about that person and where they’re at; that is great stuff. Now I know you’ve got a hard stop coming up soon, yeah. So we obviously do not have enough time to get into the other five relationship muscles. I just want to buy the book exactly. I just want to mention them, maybe to pique your interest a little bit more, if you want to know. But we talked about the relationship to your past, but there’s also the relationship to reality. Ooh, what does that mean? Relationship to your mind, relationship to your emotions. We talked about the relationship to your inner truth. There’s also a relationship to your inner energy and relationship to your love stories.

Roy Biancalana 51:22
So your love stories is a huge one. All of us grow up in environments where we come out of our childhood with impressions about what intimacy is like. We see our parents, we see maybe our friends parents, and it leaves them, oh, this is what a relationship is like, and very often, the stories that we come out of our childhood with our stories that might make us not so sure we want to get involved in that, because perhaps it looked like to you, intimacy is about one person having power and The other person being submissive, or one person is controlling, the other one is whatever. Or relationships are about compromise, or relationships are about pain, you know, so it’s always important to look at yourself and say, What are almost my unconscious beliefs and stories about what a relationship is, because if we think it is a certain thing, there might be a part of us that says I don’t want any part of a relationship if it’s about power, but that’s what I witnessed. So we are almost unconscious, and that’s what it’s about. That’s what marriage is. It’s about power. So then we find we’re 40, 50 years old, and we’re single, and the reason is because we have this assumption that a relationship means there’s going to be some sort of power dynamic, right?

But once you know that, you could challenge that story. Maybe it was for them. But does it have to be that way? Does a relationship have to be a comp about compromise, where there’s a lose-lose dynamic in a relationship, maybe there could be a win-win. Maybe a relationship could not be about power at all. Right, but until we know that, we perhaps have a story that can be running in the background and sabotaging what we do, we can’t ever deal with it and perhaps challenge it and clear it up and be open to the possibility the relationship could be about mutual support, about mutual creativity, about both people being more of themselves together than they would be apart, right? It gets me all excited.

Kevin Anthony 53:47
I know I get the same way when I talk about this stuff. It’s because we love what we do. Well, I know we’re pretty much out of time. I want to just give you one last moment to share anything that you want to share with the audience. And you know, if you let people know where they can find your work, if they want to work with you, if they want to read your book, whatever it is.

Roy Biancalana 54:07
The best place to go is my website, coachingwithroy.com, and I gotta say that the book we’re talking about Relationship Boot Camp, it is available on my website for Free, right? Because I’ve just come out with a new book called Quantum Questions, right? We’re not talking about that, but you can go to my website and you can get my book for free and read it. It’s been out for about six years now, so I’m okay with letting people just get it for free. There’s also something on my website that’s called the relationship fitness self-assessment test. So I’ve created this little 30-question true false test that gives you an idea of your current relationship fitness level. So you’ll get my opinion on what is your Are you in relationship shape?

Like, where do you stand? End right now, like going to the gym and hiring a trainer, the first thing a good trainer would do is run you through a bunch of assessments to see kind of, okay, what’s your current fitness level, and then we can put a program together to get you in shape. Well, I do that on the on the website, there’s a free assessment of your current fitness level, and it’s not the gospel truth, it’s just my impression or my ideas, and if you find that you’re maybe not in as good a relationship shape as you need to be, then you can follow up with me, and I’ll put a program together and work with you and help you get your butt in relationship shape so that you can create a relationship that you would die for.

Kevin Anthony 55:41
All right, and links to that will be in the description, so you can find it there. Roy, I want to thank you for coming on the show. I love everything that you said, and I think that you had a way, a really clear way of explaining these things that made sense to people. Thank you. So yeah, I really hope that people appreciated what you shared as much as I did. And again, if they’re interested in knowing more about the other muscles and working with you, they can follow that link below.

Roy Biancalana 56:17
Thank you, Kevin, I appreciate it.

Kevin Anthony 56:20
That’s all the time I have for this episode, and I will see you next week.

I hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe, leave me a review, and share it with your friends, and for more free exclusive content, join me in the passion vault at https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. Thanks for listening, and remember, as Celine used to say, you’re amazing!