The Stages Of Masculine & Feminine Development – Where Are You?

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman single or a couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Céline Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 247. And it is titled The Stages of Masculine and Feminine Development. Where are you? Okay, what am I talking about here? All right, the idea for this show actually comes from an interaction I had with somebody on social media. So it’s another teacher in this space. And somebody I don’t know, personally, but somebody that I have been connected with via social media for a few years. And I have watched her over the years, you know, the stuff that she puts out on social media.

And having watched that for a number of years now. I always put her kind of in the angry young woman category, if I’m totally honest. And I would just watch her and think, Wow, she’s so beautiful, she’s intelligent, she’s got so much to offer, but she hasn’t quite figured it out yet. And she’s still in that place where she’s angry at men, and possibly even life. So I saw her post something recently, where she was talking about a way that she was showing up in her relationship. And I thought, Oh, wow, that’s amazing. Because that means she’s finally figured out kind of an important part of what it really means to be in a relationship and how you really show up in a relationship. And I was actually genuinely happy for her. And so I just commented on her post saying, hey, that’s wonderful. Like, you’re, you’re really figuring it out.

And she got a little triggered by that. And got defensive and wanted to try to explain to me what she really meant, and how much she didn’t care about my, my thoughts on it, and all that and, and you know, that aside, doesn’t really matter. It’s social media, who cares, social media is such a joke anyway, you really shouldn’t waste much time there or care what anybody thinks you know about it. But what it got me thinking about were the stages that we go through, as it pertains to how we show up in our relationships. And this is really, I think it’s super important. So I’m going to talk about, and so part of this comes from my own experience, and the stages I’ve gone through in mind development, but also working with clients and seeing where they’re at. Now, I don’t really get to work with people long enough generally, to see them move from one stage to another.

But I’ve done enough coaching work to see what stage somebody is in. Right? And that can really help me when I’m trying to figure out how do I help this person. How do I help them, be a better husband, be a better wife, be a better boyfriend, girlfriend, show up powerfully in the relationship in the bedroom, be a better father or mother, how do I help them do that stuff? It’s important to know where they’re at. Because if I try to give them something that is, you know, a stage way above where they’re at, it’s probably not going to work. Now, that does not mean that I have perfect, you know, judgment. And I know exactly where everyone’s at. It’s just I get a feel for where I believe they’re at. And then I start asking more questions. And then I start guiding them in directions. And sometimes they surprise me, and sometimes they don’t. So we’re going to talk about all of that. And both to start. We’re going to do that by diving into a little bit of psychology. And we’re going to talk a little bit about Eric Erickson’s theory of psychological development, or sorry, psychosocial development. And Dr. Robert Keegan is five stages of adult development.

And then I’m going to compare those to the stages that I’ve created that I thought of before I even put together this episode with Erickson’s work and Keegan’s work, and I’m going to show you how they relate together. So it’s gonna make more sense, because if I just told you my idea, like, here are the wacky names I gave them and here’s what I think about it. You’re probably going to be rolling your eyes going, Yeah, whatever. You know, this guy is just making up stuff. And I don’t believe that because I’m really way more advanced or whatever it is that goes through your mind. So I think it’s helpful to show you what to do. Experts say about it. And then what is my experience as a coach and as a man who’s I have just a hair under half a century old. So I think it’s gonna be a really interesting episode, I will do my best not to bore you with the psychology and make it really fun. And I’ll explain to you after the commercial ad here in the beginning, why I think this is really important for you to understand.

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And I want to talk specifically about Eric Erickson’s theory of psychosocial development and Dr. Robert Keegan’s five stages of adult development. I’m going to do a little bit more reading in the beginning here than I normally would normally I’m just, you know, in the flow of speaking to you, I have maybe a bulleted list in front of me or something. I’m going to read a few things today, though, because it is stated so well, they do a better job of stating it, then I would be able to it’s really concise, and it will really help you understand what it is that I am talking about. So first, I want to read just a little excerpt from Psychology Today. And this is somewhat based on Dr. Robert Kegan stuff. So Dr. Robert Kegan, a Harvard psychologist has been the preeminent researcher in this field. His thesis holds that develop it developing as an adult is not about learning new things or adding things to the container of the mind.

It is about personal transformation, changing the manner in which we know and view the world. Instead of changing the contents of the mind, it’s akin to changing the actual container. The transformation is metaphorically a Copernican shift realizing that the earth is or you are not at the center of our solar system. But the sun is at the center. And when we realize this, nothing really changes, but rather our entire conception and perception of the world transforms. Only through transformation, can we truly move from one stage of human development to a higher stage, most of the time, we are in transition between stages, and we behave a bit differently with different people in our lives. The goal is to know where we are, what behavior looks like at that stage, where it comes from, and how it is serving us and others. Basically, the impact of it is, when we know those elements, and we have a motivation, clarity, and focus, we can deliberately work to change ourselves at the belief, thought, and feeling levels.

Whoa, boom, right? Hold on. Yes, we need a truth bomb for that one. So why is all this stuff that I’m gonna be talking about today? Important, it’s summed up in that last little paragraph right there. Which is the goal is to know where we are, what behavior looks like at that stage, where it comes from, and how it is serving us and others. And the idea is to be able to deliberately work to change ourselves at the belief, thought, and feeling level. So that’s what this is all about. This is why the title says at the end, where are you? And, as we often say, on this show, because we ask a lot of questions, and we asked you to really look at yourself, be really honest, be really honest about where you think you are, as we talk about these developmental stages.

If you can’t be honest with yourself, obviously, you’re not going to be able to be honest with anybody else either. But you’re also not really going to be able to make real substantive change. If you can’t admit where you’re at, and it doesn’t really matter where you’re at, you know, people say, Oh, I don’t want to be at that stage. That’s like an early stage. It doesn’t matter. Just figure out where you are, and then take action to move to the next step. Okay, let’s talk a little bit about Eric Erickson’s theory of psychosocial development. So Eric Erickson was an ego psychologist who developed one of the most popular and influential theories of development. While his theory was impacted by psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud’s work Erickson’s theory centered on psychosocial development rather than psychosexual development, we won’t go into the whole fraud, Freud penis envy thing, not relevant right now in this moment.

We want to talk about Erickson’s stages of psychosocial development. So he’s got eight stages, I’ll just read them really quickly because we’re only going to talk really about three of them. We’re gonna skip all the rest. Stage one is trust versus mistrust, which is infancy from birth to about 18 months, stage two, autonomy versus shame and doubt, that’s toddler years to 18 months stage three, initiative versus guilt, that’s preschool years from three to five, stage four industry versus inferiority, middle school years from six to 11, stage five identity versus confusion, teen years from 12 to 18, stage six intimacy versus isolation, young adult years from 18 to 40. stage seven, generativity versus stagnation, that’s middle-aged from 40 to 65. And stage eight integrity versus despair.

And that’s older adulthood from 65 to death. So having read those, you can understand what we’re only going to talk about, actually really two of them, we’re mostly going to be talking about stages six, and seven, because that’s the 18 to 65, which is sort of your prime relationship, and sex years. So to mean that you can’t have relationships before that or after that, or sex before that, or after that. But that’s kind of the main time when you are learning, developing, and moving from one stage to another. Now, the words that he uses for these stages, you know, like intermediate intimacy versus isolation or generativity versus stagnation, you have to go read his research like, don’t, you know, if you read one like industry versus inferiority, oh, don’t get all caught up in AI inferiority, like he had his own definitions for these words.

So to understand what he was trying to say, you need to go back and read what did he mean by that word, that is really not relevant so much to this episode, because I’m just going to give you a really short quick definition when it comes to the stages in just a moment here, as what he generally means about that stage like just like a summary of that stage. So we’re going to primarily be talking about stages six, and seven, but I’ll cover six, seven, and eight, just so you can see what he thinks is, you know, stage eight. stage six, the major conflict at this stage of life centers on forming intimate loving relationships with other people. Success at this stage leads to fulfilling relationships struggling at this stage, on the other hand, can result in feelings of loneliness and isolation. So you can see why this one would be relevant to what we’re talking about. This is where you start to figure out how do I have intimate relationships with people super important. stage seven.

During this stage, middle-aged adults strive to create or nurture things that will outlast them often by parenting children fostering positive changes that benefit others, contributing to society and doing things to promote future generations are important needs of the generativity versus stagnation stage. So this doesn’t actually talk about relationships. But I am going to show you in mind stages where I think this fits in. Because really, what it’s talking about here is the strive to create or nurture things. And we’ll talk about when we get into Dr. Robert Keegan’s stages in a moment about, you know, the difference between worrying or putting most of your time and energy in trying to get your own needs met versus helping somebody else to meet their needs. And that’s where kind of stage seven comes in. And then his, his stage eight, which isn’t all that relevant here. Either integrity versus despair involves a retrospective look back at life and either feeling satisfied that life was well lived, or regretting choices and missed opportunities. So that’s kind of interesting. Not we’re not so much going to be focusing on that we’re going to spend a little bit more time with six and seven, as we relate them to the stages that I see when I work with people.

Okay, and we’ll just quickly go over Dr. Robert Kegan’s stages and then we will leave the boring psychology stuff and we’ll start talking about what do I see with people where they’re at and how we help them get out of that, and all of that stuff. Personally, I don’t think this is boring, but some of you might. So I don’t want to spend a ton of time going into the deeper psychology stuff of it. So there are five stages. The first stage we don’t talk about, because it’s more related to childhood. So we’ll just skip right over that we’ll go straight to stage two, which he calls the Imperial mind. This stage is about getting your own needs met, as opposed to a shared internal experience with others, the fear is that your own needs will not be met. Additionally, at this stage as a teen or young adult, you follow the rules, not because of the goodness of the rule, but because doing so will benefit you. So if we kind of translate this to sex, love, and relationship, when you’re in stage two in the Imperial mind, let’s say you’re a man, what are you thinking about? How do I get laid? How do I get laid? Right? How do I get the sex that I’m looking for? How do I have the orgasms and ejaculations I’m looking for even if this means I hurt a few people along the way, intentionally or unintentionally, you know, I’m getting my needs met. And then, you know, let’s say this is a stage where people will say, Well, I’m being monogamous, because that’s the only way she’ll have sex with me.

Right? They’re not because they see value in a monogamous relationship, but because that’s what she wants. And that’s the only way she’ll have sex with me kind of thing. So that’s, that’s kind of what we’re talking about with the Imperial mind stage. So stage three, the socialized mind. Most important thing in stage three, I’m sorry, the most important things in stage two are personal needs and interests. In stage three, the most important things are the ideas, norms, and beliefs of people in systems around us, for example, our family society, our culture, and ideology, we begin to function based more on how others experience us, for example, we take external, we take an external view of ourselves, we might tell ourselves, they’ll think I look stupid, or might even internalize that and think that we are actually stupid. So we tend to arrive at our beliefs and morals from external sources, those could be religion, work culture, or friends. Additionally, this stage would give a great deal of responsibility to other people in terms of how they see us so that we spend most of our time trying to avoid looking bad or hurting other people’s feelings, we tend to look for validation about our own self-worth from outside of ourselves.

Who, okay, so this is where we do things like, well, we should get married because that’s the normal thing to do. That’s what society says we’re supposed to do, right? Or, you know, I guess we should move in together? Because, you know, we’ve been together for X number of years. And that’s what society says you should do. You know, we’ve been dating long enough, we should do this, right? You’re not making the decisions. Because wow, this person is amazing. And I want to be with them as much as I possibly can. And living together would be an amazing way to be in this amazing container. 24/7. Right. Wow. You know, let’s get married. Because we want we literally want to spend the rest of our lives together and CO create something together, right? That’s not, that’s not this stage. Right? It’s just not, this is where you’re doing things because this is what you’re supposed to do. And you see a lot of people there. Alright, stage four, the self-authoring mind. According to Keegan, about 35% of adults are in this stage of development. In stage four, we put the priority on defining who we are. And we move away from being defined by other people, our relationships or the environment, we believe that we are an individual with thoughts, beliefs, and feelings and that we are independent from the expectations of our culture.

In this stage, we are able to differentiate the opinions of others from our own. And we develop what Kegan calls our seat of judgment. This is the person that I am and this is what I stand for. In this stage, we develop an internal sense of direction and the capacity to develop and follow our own charted course. So there’s a little bit more to that. But you get the idea, right? This is where you start stepping outside of this is what I’m supposed to do. I’ll propose to her because I’m supposed to, I’ll do this for her because I’m supposed to write or yeah, I’ll, you know, I speak obviously, mostly from the male point of view because I am a male, but we could flip that around to and women do a lot of things because they’re supposed to as well. Right? So that’s, that’s this stage four. And then stage five. Apparently, only 1% of adults from the research studies are operating at stage five and stage five. Your sense of self is not tethered to specific identities or roles rather, it is regularly created through the exploration of your own identity is culture Vedas through interaction with others. In this sense, the self is ever-evolving in a constant state of change. Whoa, that’s a hard one. Like,

when you try to talk to people about this one, they can’t even grasp the concept most of the time, they will say that they do until you explore it a little further and a little deeper. But it’s just, it’s so hard for people to understand that most people can get up to number four, even if they’re not in number four, they kind of understand it, getting to number five, they’re kind of what? So like, one of the things he says here in this stage, we not only question authority, but we question ourselves, and we recognize the complexities of life. So that is really interesting and really important. So we’ve laid the groundwork now for what I’m going to talk about when I start talking about what I call my adaptation of the stages.

Now, mind you, I wrote my stages, before I researched any of this, and started figuring out how they fit together. So basically, what I did was based on that interaction I had on social media, you know, I tried to explain to her that I saw her moving from a stage and I didn’t even really tell her what the stages were. And I didn’t say one was good or bad. I just basically said like, Yeah, this is awesome. Because I see you maturing into a new stage like, Yay, happy for you, right? And so when I sat down to write this, I basically just like, what, what is it that I see as I work with different people? How do I see them? Like, where they’re at where they’ve been, and where they want to go? And I just wrote it down. And then I worked backward from there. I said, Okay, this is what I see. Well, what does psychology say about that? What do other supposed experts in the field, think about? Am I just way off base here?

Or are my observations in line with what the current research says? So then I went back and researched it and came up with all that stuff I just shared with you. And then some, but you know, there’s only so much that we can cover in one show. And then I compared it to I went back to my stages and then went, Hmm, wow, they really line up pretty well. So we’re going to cover that. But before we do time for a short break for a second sponsor. Are you in a couple are your relationship and sex life where you want them to be? Are there changes you would like to make but just don’t know how maybe you think there is nothing that can be done, I challenge you to make this year, the year that changes. If you’re not 100% happy with where your relationship or sex life is, then get help today and change your life. Go to Kevin and Céline dot com forward slash sex dash coaching dash couples and schedule a strategy call with me today. So we can map out a strategy to get you where you want to be. So you can have it all your way.

Again, go to Kevin and selene.com forward slash sex dash coaching dash couples remember, I know the link is long, it’s in the description. Just go there, find it, click on it, and book your strategy call today. Okay, so let’s go back and talk about the stages I see people go through. Now I’m going to start with the women. Because I think that segment is going to be a little bit shorter. I’ll tell you what I observe as I work with people and observe you know, friends and relatives and people I know. But having not been a woman in this lifetime maybe in a previous lifetime. I don’t know. I can’t speak personally about the so when I get into the men’s one I can talk about not only what I observe but also what I’ve experienced and so that’s why I’m going to start with the women. I’m not singling you out women at all I’m just starting because I think it’s going to be a little bit shorter conversation. Okay, so number one, and I just kind of made these titles up myself but number one is the I don’t need a man stage.

So this is the I don’t need a man this is the badass boss babe. I can do it all on my own and I don’t need no man are the you know the sort of angry feminists stage? Oh, I know. Oh, I know. That’s gonna piss a lot of people off. Sorry. It’s kind of true. So we just have to say it. So this is that stage where it’s just like they’re not recognizing the value that being in a relationship can really bring to their lives. And maybe it’s because they have been hurt, mistreated, had bad relationships, whatever. But they get in that place where they’re like, I don’t need any of this. I’m my own thing. It’s all about me. Right? And it’s about getting my needs met. Wow. Where did we hear that before something about getting my needs met? Oh, right. That was the Imperial mind. So if we go back up to the Imperial mind, this stage is about getting your own needs met. Additionally, in this stage, says, as a young adult, you don’t follow rules, because of the goodness, but because they’ll benefit you. So this is more akin to sort of that basic Imperial mind thing where it’s really about us, like, I don’t need somebody to take care of me, I don’t want somebody to take care of me, I’m a badass, this, some of that, whatever.

So that then takes us into the next stage, which is the, I don’t need a man. But I want one. So there’s still sort of like, Hey, I don’t need this, I’ve still got my own business, I’m still capable of earning my own income, you know, I don’t really need a man for anything, I can completely self source and satisfy all my own needs on my own. But, I kind of want one. And this is, so this is the stage where you see when people get into a relationship, they’re like, everything needs to be 5050. Right? So I don’t need you. And you don’t need me. But we’re going to be in a relationship. And we’re going to split everything 5050. So where have we heard that before? Let’s go back to the socialized mind. And this is where the most important things are the ideas, norms, and beliefs of people and systems around us, for example, your family, society, culture, and ideology. So now you’re thinking, Well, wait a minute, that doesn’t really sound like what you just said. But it is in a sense of like, the sort of social norms today about what it means to be in a relationship, right? And this will get more clear, as I talk through it a little bit more.

But this idea about, you know, here, we’re coming in, everything’s equal 5050, we split everything, you know, all the chores are done. 5050 like this is that sort of culturally socialized idea of what a relationship is supposed to be? Well, after that, we have the, I need a man, but not for financial support. So this is where somebody finally realizes that you know what, I kind of I do need a masculine presence in my life. And so this is actually really a huge, huge step for a lot of women to make. Because again, today, in our world, it’s all about like, we are destroying the gender roles, and we’re saying that these things aren’t necessary, they don’t need to exist. In fact, they’re outdated, and they’re harming us. And we need to get rid of them and put everybody on an equal playing field. And so that’s where a lot of people are starting. And men the same way when we get to men, trust me will, will, will give them in some shit too.

But this is where a lot of people are at today. And so you’ll see that in the I don’t need a man stage, you’ll see that in I don’t need one, but I kind of want one. But everything is like a level playing field. So by the time you get to this next stage, you start to realize that, you know, maybe this masculine and feminine thing isn’t such an old, outdated, archaic thing that no longer has any value or relevancy in today’s modern society. Maybe actually, it feels good to have a strong man in my life, who is supporting me and allowing me to let go of some of the masculine roles in life and embrace my femininity more, right? So that’s where a woman is at once she starts getting into that. I don’t need him for financial support. I can make my own money I can do that. But I realize that I want one that there’s value in that, that that dynamic is important to my happiness in life.

So that where have we heard that before? Well, that’s kind of more of the self-authoring mind. Right? And that’s where we put priority in defining who we are we move away from being defined by other people, right? So now we’re letting go of that societal structure that says, oh, you know, masculine, feminine dynamics don’t mean anything. And everything already is on a level playing field, we get rid of all that. And we start forming our own beliefs about hey, you know, I realized that when I was in a relationship with a strong man, that there were parts of that I really liked, that really worked for me, and maybe just maybe I didn’t see it or value it at the time. And now I do. So personally, I think that is a huge, huge shift. And then we get into the last stage for the women, which is the, I want a man need a man and wants to take care of my man.

So now it’s like, Okay. Remember in so there’s, there are four of the stages that I’ve created for women. So in stage number one, you don’t need a man. So now here we are in four, it’s like, yeah, I need a man. Like you realize that you need a strong, masculine presence in your life. And then Step two was, well, I don’t need him, but I want one. But here we are on step four. And it’s like, okay, I realized I need one, and I want one. And then the thing that kind of makes this step, a little different than the previous ones, is the, I want to take care of him. So this is where the woman realizes like, Okay, I do need a man in my life, like, that’s important. And I do want one in my life. And when he shows up in my life, I want to support him by being the feminine pole of that relationship. So this is where women really started to step into and embrace sort of the feminine role and what that means to her, rather than what society says that means, right? Because that’s one of those earlier stages of being defined by other systems of belief. So, in this stage, it’s more about like, oh, wow, I realized that I need a man, a woman a man.

And there’s value in me supporting him as the feminine in this relationship. So those are kind of the sort of general stages that I see women going through. And so you know, if I’m coaching a woman or a couple, and, you know, I’m speaking with her and trying to get a feel for where she’s at, you know, if a woman shows up, like, let’s say, a couple comes in, and, you know, she’s in the second phase, the I don’t need a man, but I want one, and everything needs to be 5050. And they’re telling me that they don’t have any, the chemistry in the relationship is gone. And we don’t have that spark anymore. And I’m not really attracted to him anymore, and we don’t really have sex anymore. And it’s like, yeah, there’s no polarity. Why is there no polarity, because you’re stuck in the, you know, I don’t need one, but I want one. But everything has to be, you know, on the same level, and 5050, and all that. And that’s, that’s where you basically have neutralized the polarity in your relationship. So somebody like that comes in, we need to start talking about, okay.

How can we encourage you to move to stages more, where you don’t need everything to be 5050 Not everything’s got to be, I do this, you do tit for tat kind of thing. And you can start relaxing more into your feminine and allowing him to take on his role, assuming, of course, that he’s stepping up and taking on his role because that’s a whole other thing that we’re going to talk about when we get to the guys and what stage they’re in because that’s a whole thing. But you can see how understanding where somebody’s at can kind of help you guide them to where they need to go next. So you know, even if they’re in the I need a man and want one in the third stage there. It doesn’t mean that they’re really fully embracing what it means. To be the feminine half of that, that relationship. And so, but if they come there, if they’re already in that stage, that third stage, like they’re already in a great place, and it’s like, okay, great, a few little tweaks here and there. And you could have literally the relationship of your dreams.

And honestly, if you’re in the fourth stage, if you’re a woman, and you’re like, I want a man, I need a man, and I totally relaxed in my feminine essence and caring for him. And like really being the feminine pole in that relationship, you’re probably not coming to see me because things are working for you. Your man might be coming to see me because maybe he’s not fulfilling his half. In which case, you probably told him, Hey, look, you need to work on your stuff, or I’m not gonna be sticking around all that much longer. But yeah, if a woman is in that fourth stage of mine then likely, she’s not seeking help, because she probably has an amazing, spectacular relationship that really fulfills her and makes her happy. All right, let’s move on then to the men. So first stage here for the men. I call it the I want to play the field stage or the party boy, frat boy stage, right? So you see this a lot where it’s just like, they want to juggle as many women as they can, they got one over here, one over there, they don’t tell it each other.

They don’t tell anybody about the other ones. And it’s just like, all about getting their needs met, what are their needs, their needs are to get laid, have ejaculations conquer women, whatever it is, play the field play around. And, you know, remember, these are psychological stages. And while they are loosely tied to certain age ranges, where we can say that, at a certain age range, you’re likely in this stage of development. That is not always true. I know, adults in their 50s, who are still in the party boy, frat boy, I want to play the field stage and have just never grown up, never evolved, never matured past that, it can happen for sure. And ladies, I know you have seen these men, they are all over the dating sites. And the signs are pretty obvious. But we would equate that to the Imperial mind kind of what we were talking about with the women in that first stage, which was more related to the Imperial mind, which is getting your own needs met. It’s just all about getting your own needs met. And you’re only following the rules as far as you have to because they will benefit you. Right. So that’s a pretty early stage that I would hope most people would move past pretty quickly.

Okay, so what’s the next stage, the next stage is the I’m looking for a partner, but not willing to have real intimacy. You see this one all the time with guys. They say they want to partner they’re looking, they’re dating, they’re not, there’s a difference here between the, I just want to play the field and bang as many women as I can. That’s not where the second-stage guys are. The second stage for guys is I want a girlfriend. Maybe they want more than one. But most likely they just want they want a girlfriend. The problem is though they’re almost incapable of having real true intimacy in that relationship. And so they end up being this sort of those serial monogamists, where, you know, they have one relationship that lasts for a little while and then it falls apart, then they have another one that lasts for a little while falls apart, and they have another one and they just have this string of failed relationships.

That’s one of the things I talk about in my ad for the men’s coaching that I do and one of the things is that have you had a string of failed relationships? Well, one of the reasons for that is that you’re not willing or able to go to the levels, the depths of intimacy that you need to go to in order to nurture a successful long-term relationship. And so this one relates more to that socialized mind again, right and just to review that this is where the most important things ideas are ideas norms and beliefs, societal systems you know, family society, culture ideology, that sort of stuff. And we care more about what other people think. So you know, how does that affect what can sometimes it might seem like it’s a little hard to draw the connections here but think about it is like

you if you’re in this stage and you’re not willing to have deep intimacy is like well cuz she’s gonna think this or they’re gonna think that are my buddies are gonna think I’m like the softy and like, there’s all this fear around allowing yourself to be vulnerable and connecting deeply in it and in it An intimate way. So that’s the second stage of mine. And the third one is the ready to ready to settle down, but not step into the role of masculine provider. So, okay, this one’s a little harder to see, the first two are really easy to pick out, you can spot those guys a mile away. This third one, though, is a little bit trickier to see. Because these are the people like, Yeah, I’m ready to sell down, I want the one woman I want to, you know, start a family, I want to do that. And so they look like they’re really committed, they look like they’re able to have that level of intimacy.

But there’s a piece missing. And so what I wrote here was, but not to step into the role of masculine provider. So what do I mean by that? Well, this is similar to like, that place of everything’s got to be 5050. And I’m not here to really step up and lead, right? And this is a thing that’s really important, but we’re gonna drop into the truth bomb here. You, you see this, it’s a pre pre-emptive truth bomb. You see this a lot in the guys that are doing work, specifically around polarity. And they will say things like, you know, women want to be led, you know, and people read that stuff. And they’re like, ah, what kind of masculine bullshit is this? Right? It’s the way in which they say it that turns people off, but there is a reality to it. That does exist. So there is, there is a reality that women do want men to step up and be a strong leader, they don’t want a dictator.

That’s the difference. They don’t want somebody that’s gonna say, you have to do this, and you have to do that. But they want a strong man that steps up and says, I have a plan. And here’s what I think we should do. And oh, by the way, what do you think about it? And if you don’t like that, I’m willing to take in your feedback, incorporate that in and see if I can make a change, and then come up with a new plan and say, okay, boom, you didn’t like my first plan. And I heard you, I heard what your feedback was, I’ve taken that into consideration. And now I’ve got a new plan. Women want a man to step up and do that. They absolutely do. And if they are, if they’re really honest, they will tell you that they may not be aware of that, and or they may not want to admit that if there were in one of their earlier stages themselves. But it is true. And so I see this, it’s like epidemic levels at this point of men who are not stepping up and do that.

They’re the, you know, when their partner says to them, Hey, let’s go out to eat and he says, okay, she says, Where do you want to go, and he goes, wherever you want, or it’s, Hey, it’s the weekend when you want it, whatever you want to do. Right? It’s just not stepping up not taking charge not being like, Okay, I’m going to be the man in this fame, I’m going to be protector, I’m going to be leader, right? Not dictator. Right? Not King in a sense of a dictator type king. But yeah, they’re just they’re not, they’re not stepping up and fulfilling that role. And it’s hard to see because they are the man of the household, or they might even be a father and raising kids. And they might be even making the majority of the money, but the way they show up the way they act when they get into that relationship. Or, as they’re going through that relationship, they’re not really stepping strongly into that role of masculine, what I call masculine provider, it doesn’t necessarily have to mean they make all the money, but they’re providing that role of the strong masculine pole in the relationship.

So that’s, that’s what I call the fourth stage, the ready to settle down, but not step into the role of masculine provider. And then that takes us to the last one, which is he is ready for his queen and steps into the role of masculine provider. So this is where he kind of it kind of looks like the guy from stage three, but takes that step further and, and really steps into that role. And this is where women get to really go, Oh, he’s got this. He’s got me, I can trust him. I know that his judgment is good. His decisions are good and he will always take my feelings and my needs into account before he acts. But I also know that he won’t wait to act if something needs to happen and needs to be done. He will do it and he will do it for the best interest of the relationship and the kingdom that the two of you are building together. This is really, this is the ultimate This is what all Women are seeking. It really is. And you’ll hear the term, I’m looking for my King used. This is what they mean, this is what they’re looking for. They’re looking for this man. He knows who he is. He’s confident, he’s a good protector. He’s a good provider, he has a plan. It doesn’t mean he’s rich, it doesn’t mean, you know, he’s got everything figured out.

But it means he’s got direction and drive. And he’s stepping into that role. And yeah, he might make some mistakes. But he’s going to recognize those mistakes, and he’s going to adjust and he’s going to keep trying. So yeah, that’s an I forgot to mention in stage three there, that’s more of this sort of self-authoring mind. And then when we get to this stage, here, we’re talking about more of the interconnected mind. So you can see how those different levels roughly equate. And I forgot to mention also, when I’m talking about the women and the men, I made a note here, but I didn’t actually say it. So we talked a little bit in the beginning of the show about the stages, the psychosocial development stages of Erik Erikson and I said, we’re going to talk about stages six and seven. Right. And so remember, just a quick review, stage six, major conflict at this stage of life centered around forming intimate loving relationships with other people. So it’s your learning how to develop those strong relationships.

And seven, this is where you strive to create or nurture things right. And so if we go back to the women’s and men’s stages, I was just talking about that stage three for the women the I need a man but not for I want and need a man but not for financial support. resent that was similar to the self-authoring mind, but it’s also like stage six in in Erickson’s stuff. And then the I want a man need a man and want to take care of my man is more, I would say, a stage seven to where you want to nurture things that are bigger than just yourself. And that would be the relationship itself, this third entity that’s created, that’s the relationship. And for the men, the ready to settle down, but not step into the role of masculine providers a little bit more of that stage six. And then that last stage, which is ready for his screen, and steps into the role is kind of more of that stage seven, according to Erickson, right, so you can see how these really kind of map out nicely. Along with kind of, you know, what I call sort of my stage, it’s just observations is all they are from working with people and talking with people in my own life.

And seeing how that fits with the, you know, how we have sort of mapped out how most people generally evolve through life. So if I look at myself, at through the lens of my four stages, the I want to play the field party boy, frat boy. Yeah, I mean, for sure, when I was in high school and college, I just wanted to date a lot of women. Now the reality is, is, for the most part, I always just had one girlfriend, because I wanted more, I would have had more most likely. But that was the opportunities in what I had available to me. But I can remember, just Yeah, wanting to hook up with as many women as I could. And that’s, you know, we’re, we got testosterone just, you know, coursing through our veins at ridiculous levels. At that age, we have little to no experience and we want to get experience. And we want to just do whatever it takes to get that experience. And we haven’t developed enough to know that there are problems with that, that method that way of being. So I can remember being there. To see looking for a partner but not willing to have real intimacy. Yeah, I can definitely remember in my 20s Struggling to really share things with my partners.

I can remember having a really difficult, I mean way back, but I can remember having a relationship in my late teens, and early 20s. Where, you know, the girl I was in a relationship with at the time was just asking me some basic questions about my previous sex life, and like, I didn’t want to open up and tell her about it because I was embarrassed by it. You know, and so I just, I couldn’t go to that level of intimacy and looking back on it as you know, as an adult, like, wow, did that ever self-sabotage the ratio of why? Cuz she couldn’t trust me. She couldn’t trust me because she knew I was holding back on her. Right, she knew I wasn’t telling her all the truth right now in her mind because of where she was at at that time. She’s thinking of course that I’m holding back because is, there are all these terrible things I’ve done that if I told her about, you know, she wouldn’t love me anymore want to be with me. And then the complete opposite was true, I was young, I didn’t have a lot of experience, I didn’t want to admit that I wanted to look like I’ve had enough experience.

And I knew what I was doing. And I had it all figured out. And I didn’t, of course, I didn’t, I was too fucking young. But I can clearly remember that. And that was not the only relationship, you know, I struggled for years to really be able to open up and really be my authentic self, with my partner, and everybody does, I think it’s we just weren’t taught it, you know, as kids, and the only way to learn it, is to do it. And it’s not necessarily an easy thing to do. Ready to settle down, but not step into the role of masculine provider? This, of course, I remember this one better, because it’s much closer to, you know, my current age, but yeah, I remember having relationships in my 30s, where I was like, yeah, absolutely, you know, we can live together and you know, but everything is 100% equal, and I’m not trying to, you know, lead or step up or be this or that, and everything is, you know, I can clearly remember that, and it worked to some extent until it didn’t work.

And then you didn’t really, I didn’t understand why it didn’t work, and, and all of that. And so, you know, now then we’ve got the next stage, which is, is ready for screening steps into the role of masculine provider. And you know, I’m not trying to say like, I’m so advanced and this and that, but I can tell you, and it probably, if you’ve been a longtime listener of the show, you can probably see it. But that’s where Céline and I were, and that’s who I was for her. And you may be able to see in the way that we interacted in the in the way that she spoke about me or the way that I spoke about her. But, yeah, I finally made it to that stage with her. And it’s, it’s glorious, it’s beautiful. That’s where you really hit the depth. And the magic, that relationships can be, at least from a masculine point of view, right. So if you can show up to your relationship in that space, that’s when you’re really going to see the magic happen in your relationship. And the same thing for a woman if she can really get to her last stage too.

And if both of you are in those final stages, final stages, whatever, there’s probably more stages after that, that’s just as far as I’ve gotten so far. So that’s as far as I can tell you. It does seem to map out pretty well with the stages of psychological development from some of the experts too, and they didn’t really have any stages other than like, you’re getting close to death, and you’re looking back at your life and deciding whether or not it was, it was a good life. But yeah, if both of you have reached those stages in those levels, and Céline did, she absolutely was there. And that’s, that’s kind of how I was able to really see the stages of the feminine, like, you know, if we built the show together, her and I, she probably wouldn’t use different terms. But I know that she would have agreed with the overall flow of that. Because she had been through it, she had absolutely been through it.

And she had made it to that place where she was like, I want you, I need you. And I want to nurture you, and I want to be the essence of what it means to be truly feminine and show up in a relationship as that feminine in all the glory that it brings. So, yeah, if you can come together in that way where she and you are both in that space, or he and you are both in that space, that’s where the magic really happens. So again, just to reiterate, from the beginning of the show, understanding where you’re at is the key. And if you know where you’re at, and you know where you want to go, then you can start to form a plan for how to get there and what it takes to get through those other stages and get to where you want to go. So that can mean doing some deep personal work that can mean reading, you know, self-help books that can mean working together with your partner. That can mean hiring a coach working with a psychologist, there are tons of ways that you can get yourself to evolve through these stages and get to the place where you can have literally the relationship of your dreams. So figure out what it is that you need. And you can do that by figuring out by starting by figuring out where you are at and where you would like to go. So there you go. I hope that was helpful. Look at that an entire hour episode from one interaction on social media posts. That’s the first. All right, everybody. I hope that was helpful. I hope you learned something. I hope this makes you think a little bit about where you’re at and where you’d like to go. Alright, that’s all I have for you for this episode and I will see you next week.

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Céline Remy 55:19
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault. That’s kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault.

Kevin Anthony 55:33
Thanks for listening.

Céline Remy 55:35
And remember, you’re amazing!