How To Overcome Denial & See What You Don’t Want To See With Dr. Jane Greer

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman single or a couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Céline Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 246. And it’s titled How to Overcome Denial and See What You Don’t Want to See with Dr. Jane Greer. This is I think, going to be a really fun conversation. I think it is a great topic. Because, you know, having done enough coaching myself over the years, I often run into, especially when you’re doing couples coaching, but not only with couples coaching, even when you’re coaching, just you know, one person at a time, you often will run into people in situations of denial. And as a third party, you’re sitting there going, Wow, this is so obvious. But a lot of the time is really hard for them to see. So we’re going to talk about, you know, what is denial? Really? Why is it important to be able to see the truth and how do we see the truth and all that kind of stuff around it? So I think it’s going to be a fascinating conversation.

But before we get there, a word from our sponsor, do you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed then check out power and mastery. It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men. Whether you want to have harder erections last longer or increase your sexual skills. There is something for you at power and mastery.com. As you know, that is the men’s sexual Mastery program that Selena and I created. It’s fantastic. We’ve been getting amazing feedback from it for several years. Now. I highly suggest if you have any of those issues, you go check it out.

Okay, so today’s guest is Dr. Jane Greer. She’s a marriage and family therapist, psychotherapist, sex therapist, author, radio host, and creator of the popular celebrity sex and relationship commentary shrink wrap. Through her media collaborations and expert insights she has been recognized as a leading national expert in sex, love, and relationships. I can’t think of a better guest to have on the Love Lab podcast whose subtitle is sex, love, and relationships. Dr. Jane Greer, who is an expert in sex, love, and relationships. Welcome to the Love Lab podcast.

Dr. Jane Greer 2:36
Thank you. It is a true pleasure to be here. And isn’t that what sex is all about? Or supposed to be about true pleasure

Kevin Anthony 2:43
Indeed. I was actually on a coaching call the other day, and I was speaking with a client. And I don’t know why this phrase popped into my mind. And I apologize if it offends anybody. But I just looked at him and I said, you’ve got to make sex fun again. I’m going to make T-shirts that say make sex fun again.

Dr. Jane Greer 3:05
Well said because the truth of the matter is, in fact, one of the people I was talking with recently was saying, you know, I feel like sex is a burden sex is work. Sex is a chore for my wife. And so when she says we’ll have sex tomorrow, or two days from now, I go Yeah, but think that it’s not going to happen because she never follows through. And she’s just doing her duty to speak to and pay lip service, but not really deliver the goods. So yeah, for a lot of people, sex is not about the moment and the pleasure. In fact, in my book, Am I Lying to Myself, How to Overcome Denial and Seek the Truth, I have a chapter devoted to behaviors. And when people promise that they’re going to change, tell us that things will be different. We will have sex tomorrow, I will initiate I’ll be the person who you know, really makes you feel hot. And then they don’t how you handle your own denial around that and not explode with anger, or retreat in anger, and maintain the relationship.

Kevin Anthony 4:23
Okay, we will definitely talk more about that coming up. So let’s just jump into the questions here. And this, I think will guide us kind of through this discussion. The first thing I want to kind of get out of the way and it’s kind of really basic, it’s like, you know, stepping back to the beginning, but you know, the title is How to Overcome Denial and See What You Don’t Want to See. And I think when when when people see that title on this podcast, they may or may not understand exactly what we’re talking about. So the first question is really super basic, which is, okay, what are we talking about when we’re talking about denial, especially as it refers to relationships like how is denial What is it when it comes to relationships?

Dr. Jane Greer 5:03
Well, you actually said it, it’s when you see what you want and don’t see what you don’t want. So in relationships, people behave in ways that are hurtful, that are disappointing, that make us feel rejected, that make us feel bad about ourselves, that impact our self esteem, and make us feel inadequate. And yet, we love that person. We have a certain amount of faith and trust placed in that relationship that that person is going to care about us love us, and keep us safe. And so when their behavior is contrary, when they say and do things that make us feel unsafe, and uncared for, it’s hard to accept that. And so denial, turns it into we take a lot of the bad and turn it into a little we take a little of the good and turn it into a lot. Denial is the voice that says she didn’t mean that she’s just really pressured because of all the work she has on her plate. He didn’t mean that he had a bad day at the office, he doesn’t usually take a nasty tone to me. We explain away and make the reality of what we’re seeing disappear. That is denial. It’s not so bad. It could be worse.

Kevin Anthony 6:32
Yeah, and I love the examples that you’ve given. Because I think when people tend to think about denial, they probably think more in lines of like, Oh, he’s not really cheating on me like big stuff. Right? Right. But some of the examples you gave are smaller things. And I think that’s an important point to bring up for the audience when we’re talking about denial, like, are you really seeing your relationship through the lens of reality? Or are you denying parts of it, it’s not just the big things, right? That there are lots of little examples in your day-to-day existence that you kind of deny.

Dr. Jane Greer 7:08
Absolutely, I mean, if you’re in a relationship, that you are wishing and hoping is going to become a verb relationship. And you’re supposed to take a vacation, but it gets canceled. Or you’re supposed to see them on the weekend, but they’re never available, unavailability plans canceled, plans changed, not being welcomed into the world of your partner, these are all what I call Watch Out Signs that you are not going to become a major component in this person’s life. And again, denial is the Houdini of the heart, it makes us explain it all away, make it all okay. And what I say to people is, when you see little things in a relationship happening, do what I call the emotional math, put it on paper, write it down. So you have the whole picture in front of you, because it’s not happening. It’s happening. It is a relationship. And when you see it all in front of you, it’s hard to come up with. Well, he was tired. Well, he had a hard day at the office. Well, her mother was all over her. It’s hard to come up with excuses in the moment when that is the whole picture.

Kevin Anthony 8:34
Yeah, I love that point, too, about realizing that it’s not just one thing here one thing there one thing here that it’s basically it’s a pattern, right? And what we’re wanting people to see is that there is a pattern going on. And one of the ways that people now you know, some people may be doing it intentionally, like, you know, if you’re unfortunately in a relationship with a narcissist, or somebody like that, you know, you’re gonna see them doing this pattern intentionally. But the pattern is like, hey, if I make these things all appear as random acts, you will see the bigger picture. This is what government does to us all the time, right little things here and there. So we can’t see the overall pattern of what’s happening.

Dr. Jane Greer 9:15
But here’s the thing when you talk about narcissists, and you talk about the people that manipulate and are driven by their own needs to get you to take care of them. They really feel a certain self-righteousness, and they really do feel entitled to the demands and expectations that they have of you. They have what I call demanding denial.  They don’t see that the demands that are being made of them are unfair, they’re unreasonable. They are not in any way considering your needs. They’re all about you take care of that other person. And when you try and advocate for yourself and get the other person to listen to understand, you’re locked into what I call Dementors denial, your denial of who this person is that they’re narcissistic. They’re never going to accept, respect or acknowledge your need. And the goal is for you to see that, and then change the way you deal with them. So that, you acknowledge your own needs.

Kevin Anthony 10:23
Yeah. And, and that kind of leads us to my next question, which is, okay, so we’ve, we’ve defined what we’re talking about when it comes to denial. And we’ve given some examples that can help people see oh, yeah, I didn’t realize that was actually denial that I was doing. But now the next question is, how important is it really to see the truth? Like, because some people might say, well, you know, it makes me feel better if I denied a few of those things.

Dr. Jane Greer 10:50
Who can blame them? It does, it absolutely does make you feel better. But denial is what I call it, pick your poison. It’s the short run versus the long run. In other words, if you don’t see the truth, if you deny it, you can prolong your unhappy, anxiety-ridden, potentially miserable, and certainly disappointing situation, be in a relationship be at work, be it a friendship, so you can prolong it by way of, they’re not doing it, wishing and hoping, which I call a component of denial, believing what you’re told, when they tell you no, no, you got it all wrong, I’m not doing that. You know, all the elements that go into denial. But when you do that, inevitably, and eventually, the reality will rear its head and come out, and you will have to deal with it. And it’s like disease is like illness, people deny that they have a bug or a lump or a pain. And by the time they get to the doctor, instead of it being treatable, it’s stage three or four of cancer. So denial, makes you think it could be worse. In truth, it’s worse than you think. And if you acknowledge the truth, you give yourself the room, to tackle it, to problem solve it, to confront it directly to make changes and ultimately to make your life better.

Kevin Anthony 12:26
Yeah, that was so perfectly said, I have no real follow-up on that. Like that is you know, if we were going to explain why it’s important, that’s it right there. Just rewind audience, if you didn’t get it, just rewind and listen to that over again to understand why that’s important. Okay, so we know what it is. Now we know why it’s important. Let’s talk about some more little details about denial. One of the questions I had, because this came up in the pre-interview that you and I did was how denial is often used as a defense mechanism. I wonder if you could explain that a little bit.

Dr. Jane Greer 13:01
Well, denial is a defense mechanism. It buffers the unimaginable, the pain, and the anguish, that if we were in full and complete touch with it would overwhelm us and be impossible to bear. So we have denial. Inevitably, when we learn about somebody that we love dying or having an illness, we say, it can’t be true. It’s not possible. We say I don’t believe it. No way. If somebody has betrayed us, we say he, she, they would never do that. It rocks our core, it shocks our system and takes us to our knees in terms of what we believe that this person loves us, cares about us that our father or mother would not die. So denial helps us buffer the unimaginable until we can begin to accept the reality that this is what is happening and muster up our support systems are strained, our resources, our friends, our family, therapists, whatever it takes to help us cope with the pain of our reality at the moment.

Kevin Anthony 14:18
Yeah, and so you sort of answered it already. But my follow-up question to that was like, okay, so if we’re using denial as a defense, like, how do we snap out of that? How do we get back to the reality of it?

Dr. Jane Greer 14:30
It’s very, very, very difficult. You know, this, I was working with a couple of people just today and they have come so far, in seeing the reality I have a chapter in my Am I lying to myself, and I had to overcome denial. See that you’re gonna have a chapter called, you’re driving me crazy. And it’s about family members that just bombard you with expectations. And, as I said before, demands and entitlement and expecting you to do for them, no matter how much you do, it’s never enough. No matter what you do, it’s never good enough, you’re always met with what you could have done differently, what you should have done more of. And I say to people, you really have to see your family for who they are.

And even my folks who have been working arduously and residually, one of them said to me today, but I’m shocked that my sister would not see this. And I said, Now think about it. Has your sister ever seen your needs, I remember you telling me a couple of years back, the door slammed in your face, and your sister walked out while you were trying to carry her clothes and things and eat a sandwich. Even though people know who the person is, one of the core elements of denial is surprise, and shock. And, you know, you’re in denial, if you’re seeing somebody’s behavior. And you’re surprised by it. If you’re living with an alcoholic, and he, he or she drinks all the time, and they tell you they’re going to stop and it’s going to be different, and they make all the promises and then you know life is we get carried downstream we do what we need to do we go about our lives.

But you believe that when they said they’re gonna stop, and then the next weekend comes around, and they’re drinking again. And you’re surprised when what you told me we’re gonna stop or you’re shocked. That’s denial. You’re believing what you’re told, You’re not integrating. You’re not what I call using what you know, to say they want to stop, but they’re not doing anything, I haven’t seen them go to AAA, I haven’t seen them get a go to therapy, haven’t seen the do anything toward their intention. And that’s where a lot of people get confounded. Because those that they love, have intentions and tell them I’ll change things to be different. It won’t be this. And we all wish and hope that they will be who we want them to be. And their intention will be the reality. And it never is.

Kevin Anthony 17:17
That’s a whole big subject in and of itself. Maybe we’ll get back to that. But you just mentioned that that’s one of the ways and I know that you have at least four signs that denial is happening in your relationship. So since we kind of started to talk about one of them, let’s continue on and talk about what are the other signs that denial is happening in a relationship.

Dr. Jane Greer 17:39
So wishing and hoping that’s where you, Harry, the fantasy of who you think this person is, and who you want them to be, rather than seeing who they really are and how they’re behaving. Missing the signs is another, they tell you, they’re going to call you at six o’clock. And then they don’t when their behavior and their words don’t line up, there’s no follow through to what they say. And you somehow explain in a way that’s missing the sides, when you turn a little into a lot, and that’s when they don’t spend time with you. They don’t follow through on making the plans. They say they’re going to text and they don’t or they text you three times a week. And that feels like they really care.

So you make that they’re really connected to me. They really are with me. And then there’s believing what you’re told this is when people want you to believe what they tell you, as opposed to what you know, in your gut is true. So they say like if you think your partner is cheating, and you say, I saw that number on your phone, and they say you’re being ridiculous. They’re just a friend. You don’t know what you’re talking about. And then they make you feel guilty like you’re the one with the problem. And not only that, why don’t you trust me? And why are you violating me by looking on my phone? See you come away with your self-esteem, taking the shot that you’re the bad one as opposed to they’re telling you, you can trust them. And you can’t

Kevin Anthony 19:29
Classic gaslighting.

Dr. Jane Greer 19:31
You said it exactly right. They make you feel crazy when they’re the ones who were doing crazy making things.

Kevin Anthony 19:41
You know, one of the other ones you were talking about is constantly explaining things away. I haven’t experienced this personally in a relationship that I have been in like with a significant other. But what was popping into my mind as you were talking about that is many years ago I helped found a nonprofit and that nonprofit Foot does work with government agencies. And it’s been 17 years now. And over 17 years, the government agencies keep making the same excuses. This year, we’re going on two decades now. And it’s the same excuses. And what boggles my mind is we will sit in a board meeting. And we’ll have discussions about this. And inevitably, somebody who’s been in the nonprofit since the beginning will say, Yeah, well, but they and they this and well, you know, this and that, and they explain away the excuse. And it boggles my mind because I look at them and go, you and I founded this together with other people as well. You have watched the same excuse happen for 17 years? How can you possibly still explain this away?

Dr. Jane Greer 20:49
Right? Well, you hit the nail on the head, that is denial and full bloom. That’s not the budding of spring that summer, the trees are in full bore. And they do it. Here’s the thing about denial, the people that you’re dealing with, who are in their own denial, number one they believe what they’re telling you. And they always externalize and blame everybody else. That’s how they justify their beliefs it is, but they believe they are completely committed and 100% invested in what they say. And then they blame everybody. And as everybody else who doesn’t know doesn’t see doesn’t know what’s happening, who’s attacking them who’s making a mistake? So there’s completely externalized it has nothing to do with them. And that’s how they continue to dig their heels in. And taking what I call like, you know, you’re driving me crazy and insane stance.

Kevin Anthony 21:57
Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy. I don’t even know what else to say about that. Okay. Let’s go on. I have. I have another question that I skipped over from earlier, but I kind of want to come back to it. And it was, it was a note I had written down when we spoke in the pre-interview. So assuming that we’re not dealing with, you know, a narcissist or somebody who’s gaslighting you or something like that, but yet there’s still denial going on. One of the questions was, what are the effects on the other person when you’re in denial? So you’re in denial in this relationship? Is it just your problem? Or does it actually have an effect on the other person and or the relationship as a whole?

Dr. Jane Greer 22:36
That’s a great question. They just want to keep you in denial. That’s the end game. Your denial is what enables them to do what they want to have what they want to secure what they want from you. If you’re in denial, their world is hunky dory. If you start to come through denial, you’re going to confront it, you’re going to put limits in place, you’re going to make put boundaries in place, you’re going to retreat, you’re going to say, No, you’re not going to be unconditionally available, you’re not going to be jumping through hoops trying to prove yourself to them. And their needs are not going to be met 1000 times at the expense of yourself.

So they are invested in your denial and what they will do. So when you get a sense that, you know, they’re really being unfair, and unreasonable and demanding, and you start to put limits in place, typically what they do they rope you back in, they suddenly become very nice. They’re very nice. They’re suddenly thoughtful. Their acknowledging, they’re caring, you think, Wow. No, they did it. And they and they care about me and I’m special to them, and they appreciate me. And the minute you are back into the web, bam. They bombard you with the demands and the expectations and why didn’t you do more? You didn’t do enough.

That is the pattern unequivocally with everyone and it never changes. I hear it. It’s like fishing lately. All right, I can catch this fish. you reel it back in, you know what? I’m not gonna cook and eat you. I’m gonna put you back in the ocean. They put you back in the ocean. Certainly for me, and then they catch you cook you and eat you.

Kevin Anthony 24:50
I have unfortunately seen this pattern way too many times in coaching work and the way I see it often show up is in the dating world. She finally has enough. She breaks up with him. And then somehow they end up getting back together. And here’s what I hear. He’s suddenly doing all the things that I wished he would have done from day one.

Dr. Jane Greer 25:12
Yes, you said it. Exactly. That is the wishing and hoping and what I call Mad Libs in that. I don’t know, I may be dating myself. But there used to be a game called Mad Libs. And you would fill in the words to have the story you want. People fill in the blanks with their fantasy of who they want this person to be, and what they want to happen, not what it’s been and who they are, and what’s going to happen. Instead of using what they know they go with what they wish will help happen. And that’s the one I call the going nowhere guy in a going-nowhere relationship. And if you don’t use what, you know, you go nowhere and you stay stuck.

Kevin Anthony 25:56
Okay, so I think we’ve done a pretty good job of laying the foundation of like, what is it? How do we recognize it? What are the signs and all that so next time want to start getting into some like, what do we do about it kind of stuff. But before we do that, we have one more ad from our sponsor. Are you a couple are your relationship and sex life where you want them to be? Are there changes you would like to make but don’t know how maybe you think there’s nothing that can be done? I challenge you to make this year the year that that changes. If you’re not 100% happy with where your relationship or sex life is. Then get help today and change your life. Go to KevinandCéline.com/sex-coaching-couples/. Yeah, I know it’s a mouthful link is in the description. Don’t worry about it. Schedule a strategy call with me today, I can help you get your relationship and your sex life back on track. That is Kevinandceline.com/sex-coaching-couples. Okay. So now let’s talk about somebody who realizes they’ve been in denial. What do they do next?

Dr. Jane Greer 27:08
Great question. Well, you take reality by the rope, rein it in, and start to figure out how to problem-solve and address and confront the situation. Depending what you’re dealing with what you haven’t what denial was serving? What purpose denial was serving, in what relationship? Do you need to change jobs? Because you were not dealing with the reality of a miserable boss that was always going to hold you back? Do you need to get out of a go-nowhere relationship? Do you need to not continue to date a guy that’s a go-nowhere guy who’s giving you watch outside and that he’s not going to show up, he’s not going to be available, and you’re not going to have a good relationship with him? Are you married or living with somebody who you think is cheating? And you’re seeing the reality that there is another phone number, they’re not just friends, because she signed the text, I love you. And that’s pretty glaring. So what you need to do is accept that this is a very painful reality, it’s going to require you to make changes, and ultimately, you will be happier. Because you are being short-changed in this equation and take steps to confront, deal and move on, move out, move beyond whatever the scenario is.

Kevin Anthony 28:49
Yeah, that’s fantastic. I’m gonna flip this now sort of the other way around. And it’s a scenario we haven’t really talked about yet. We’ve mostly been talking about, you know, one person who’s in denial and the other person who wants them to be in denial. But I have seen some situations where one person in the relationship is actually telling you their truth. But the person on the other end doesn’t want to hear that truth. And therefore is in denial. And so the question is, like, if you’re the person who’s been telling your partner in the relationship the whole time, here’s who I am, here’s what I want. Here’s what I’m ready to do. And you realize that the other person is just either not hearing it or they’re stuck in denial and don’t want to believe you. When you say, Look, I’m not ready for a long-term relationship, but I’m happy to date you. How do you what can that person do if they realize their partner is in denial?

Dr. Jane Greer 29:51
Great question. I love it. And it’s really challenging because the first thing is you’re dealing with somebody that is obliterating your needs. And pay attention to that, that if you’re telling them where you’re at, and they refuse to hear it and are consumed with their wishing and hoping what they want it to be, could turn potentially problematic, certainly is going to lead to a whole lot of guilt when you try and get out because they’re going to be going with what they believed it was or could have been, you’re going to be saying, but I never said that, I never told you that. And you’re gonna have a tremendous amount of guilt at breaking their heart.

So when they don’t believe what you’re telling them, that’s the point at which to start to move back up back out, because they’re not going to accept the reality and the limitations of the relationship. So is there a point to continue it if you’re not committed, and you’re not invested, and you know, you’re not going to live with this person or marry them. And you’re telling them, I mean, I’ve had people who say, clear-eyed out, I’m not, I’m not going to get married, I’m not going to have children. I don’t want this and the other person believes through denial, I’ll change them, they’ll change their mind. And then when they don’t, it’s a, it’s a head off, it’s a David Goliath down the road, somebody’s going to wind up knocked out. So unless you can really get them to accept what you’re saying, you might want to consider this as the point of which to take the fork in the road, as opposed to, you know, trying to get them to accept a reality that is more than they can.

And here’s the thing with denial, the most important thing. You can never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get somebody to see their denial. Even as a therapist, it can take me a year, or two years, I know from when somebody walks in on the first visit, where the denial is it may take me two years, to work with them to get them to a place where they can see what I knew two years ago, most people lock into trying to get the other person to see their truth. Forget it, never gonna happen. And the harder you try, the more entrenched they will become in their denial. So it goes back to what I said before with demands denial, you that’s a demander, who’s demanding that you come around to their way that you be more involved, that you’d be more committed, you have to see the reality that they’re not going to get it and do what you need to do, even if it means getting out.

Kevin Anthony 33:00
That was very powerful, what you just said, and very important to understand, you know, a little side thing that came up in my mind as you were talking about that. And it’s literally a conversation I have every week with somebody. And I still at this point don’t understand why it’s just not more well-understood or just commonly accepted. But you mentioned something about not being able to change them, right? And so what we see a lot of times with denial is Oh, yeah, I know. He said he doesn’t want to have kids, but he’ll change his mind. Right. I know. He said he didn’t want to get married or I know this will change them in the conversation that I have. I mean, it’s on autopilot. I have it so often these days, but it’s just like, you can’t change anybody. People change when they are ready to change for themselves. And I’m wondering just from your perspective as a therapy with a therapist with all of the experience you have maybe you could just talk to that a little bit because I’m like, I’m losing my voice telling people this and I wonder if maybe having it come from somebody else might help.

Dr. Jane Greer 34:08
Well, you’re locked into the you know, the AA calls it oh, gosh, I’m blocking the term the Oh, when when you’re trying to control the other person what’s the what’s the colluding it’s the I can’t believe I’m blocking and it’ll come back where you’re trying to control the other person. It’s completely gone. It’s impossible. And you the harder you try to control somebody, the more resistant they will become. And more than codependency it’s codependency that in order for you to feel okay and in control, you have to control the other person If you cannot control another person, you know how you control another person by taking control of yourself?

Kevin Anthony 35:06
Yes, yes, yes.

Dr. Jane Greer 35:10
That is the answer to the equation. When you control yourself. People start to recognize realize, sometimes respect and accept even begrudgingly because they have no choice. You’ve taken control for yourself. If you say, No, I’m not going to talk to you after nine o’clock at night, and you don’t answer the phone, they don’t have to like it. They don’t have to give you permission. That’s it. You’re not answering the phone. You’ve taken control. The biggest mistake people make with demand is denial with other people trying to get that person to accept and agree that I get your needs. I understand, Okay, I won’t do that. Forget it. You’re trying to get them to see and control their behavior by understanding yours. If you know your needs are legitimate, you can only talk for 15 minutes, you’re not going to get the other person to say, Yeah, okay, I know, you told me 15 minutes, you can talk and control them to get them to stop, they’re gonna keep talking. But you can say, Look, I told you, I can only talk for 15 minutes, I have to go by and hang up. You told them, You gave them a heads up, and you’re not being rude. You’re just putting in place what you said was going to happen. Take Charge, take control of your own behavior. Avoid trying to tell somebody else what to do. Do it for yourself.

Kevin Anthony 36:53
Absolutely. And I think not just when we’re dealing with denial, but you know, as, as a relationship expert, I think you would probably agree with me when I say that, when it comes to fixing whatever’s happening in your relationship, one of the most important and first steps you need to take is taking charge of yourself. So fixing your end of it. So this is like people come to me a lot of times, they’re in a couple of them. They’re having a problem with their relationship. And they know they need to do something about it. But their partner is not on board. And so they say, Well, I don’t know. Is it really worth just me working with you if I don’t have my partner on board?

Dr. Jane Greer 37:29
Exactly.

Kevin Anthony 37:31
Yes, yes, it is. Because you need to start with you. You need to fix your stuff first.

Dr. Jane Greer 37:38
So well said and when I say too many times over the years where people have come in, and they’ve said exactly that. They’ve said, You’ll never get my partner in here. And I say, You’re absolutely right. I won’t, you will. And they do. They do because they reach a point where if their partner is not going to work with them on the relationship, then the relationship has hit a dead end. They have grown enough into themselves and embraced enough of themselves to say, I’m not settling for less, I’m not going to continue to live, disappointed, empty, feeling deprived. Either they come in and talk with me, or, when they present it to their partners. Either we work on this or I walk out this relationship is over, when they take charge like that their partner takes them seriously because they’re taking themselves seriously. So the partner says, Alright, I better if they want the relationship, and if they don’t. So be it. You’re out from under?

Kevin Anthony 38:44
Yes. So I want to talk I don’t know if there really is, but it’s a question that I had. And, you know, we do these pre-interview calls. And I’ve listened to, you know, you talk about stuff. And I asked you some questions. And it just kind of gets my brain working. And then all of a sudden questions start popping in and one of them was I’m wondering, is there a difference in how you deal with denial? If you’re just dating somebody versus you’re in a long-term committed relationship? You’ve been married for 20 years, whatever it is, like? Do you handle it differently? Do the same things that we’ve been talking about apply to both?

Dr. Jane Greer 39:25
Question. And the answer is, it’s probably the same. You probably so with denial. We feel in control by making it our fault, our responsibility. I’m not being understanding enough. I’m not being a good enough person. I need to be more empathic. I need to be more caring. So we give somebody the benefit of the doubt. We let them off the hook. We explain away bad behavior. We try harder to please them to win their approval. And that is true whether you’re dating somebody, or you’re living with somebody, it’s the same stylistic approach. So the denial is very similar. It just gets amped up because the circumstances get bigger.

Kevin Anthony 40:17
Yeah, you know, and I wanted to ask that question because I had a feeling that there are people out there who, in dating might dismiss it as being not as important.

Dr. Jane Greer 40:29
Exactly.

Kevin Anthony 40:34
What I kind of wanted to bring out was what you said, which is that it doesn’t matter if you’re dating or if you’re in a relationship, if this denial thing is happening, it’s equally as important to address.

Dr. Jane Greer 40:46
Absolutely. And when dating, I have a skill called read the small print, because little things that look so tiny and unimportant. If you look at a pack of cigarettes, little tiny letters, it says Warning, smoking can be hazardous to your health. Well, hazardous is a big word. Hazardous is like for death. And that’s true with dating, and little, little, little things. One of the examples I use in my book is a woman going out on a date. She said to me was a friend of mine, she said, Well, how do I know? I said, Well, small details, small detail if you go out to dinner, and he reaches over and helps himself to your food without asking, and then doesn’t offer you a bite of his food. She said, Well, what does that mean?

I said, Well, it means he’s got no boundaries. What’s yours is his, he’ll, he’ll feel free to help himself to what is yours? There’s no reciprocity. He’s not offering to re turn with you giving you a bite of his food, and you’re gonna wind up with a very selfish man. So sure enough, she went out on this date, and didn’t he just held himself to her food with no, hey, you want to taste? In spite of that, she dated this man. Six weeks later, he had her walking his dogs in the sixth-floor apartment when she had just moved to the city and needed to be home to get her own furniture delivered. And I said to her, he’s in the city. He’s had dogs for six years. She’s got a dog walker, why are you there? You need to take care of yourself. She finally saw how self-serving and selfish he was to get her to take care of him. It was one little gesture, helping himself to her food. read the small print. Because little behaviors are broad statements of personality. A little thing like we’ll go out on the weekend, and then no follow through one time. It’s going to happen again. Because if you are invested and sincere, and you say you’re going to call, call, or say, Hey, I told you I’d be in touch but something came up. I’m not going to be able to connect this weekend. Connect. The disconnect is what you will see. The little details add up to big, big happenings.

Kevin Anthony 43:22
Indeed. So pay attention to the details. That’s so true in life.

Dr. Jane Greer 43:26
Small print. Absolutely.

Kevin Anthony 43:29
Okay, we’re getting close to the end of the show. I got two more questions. So I want to ask a question, then give you an opportunity to tell everybody about your new book. And then I have one final question at the end. Fabulous. So the last question is, if you could give one piece of advice to somebody on this like they’re just realizing there’s some sort of denial going on, you could give them one piece of advice to get them going in the right direction. What would you tell them?

Dr. Jane Greer 43:57
Pay attention to every time you’re surprised or shocked. That is the biggest and the hardest piece of denial to confront. You know the Wizard of Oz ignore that man behind the curtain. Do not ignore that man behind the curtain. Trust your gut. Hold on to it. Use what you know, if you find yourself surprised at your partner spouses, bosses, or miserable, bad, hurtful behavior. Tell yourself I’m in denial. If this is surprising me, if I am shocked, I’m not seeing them for who they are. I’m wishing I’m hoping I’m missing signs. What do I need to see? What do I need to change in the way that I think to get through this so that I am not surprised by their behavior? The goal of getting through denial is to know what to expect so when they say or do something obnoxious or hurtful. You can laugh it off and go. Yeah, that’s what I figured. I thought that about you. I heard that about you Sure. That’s what I, I knew you’d say that. Even more so so that you start to monitor and edit what you share with people so that you don’t give them an opportunity to put you down to criticize you to blame you, so that you’re not surprised when you tell them, Hey, I just got a promotion at work, and you tell them and they go, that’s all you got. To do this, you don’t put yourself in a place to be vulnerable and devalued and hurt.

Kevin Anthony 45:36
Excellent advice. So this has been a great conversation, there have been so many good pieces of wisdom and advice in here. I really hope that people have enjoyed it thus far. And I would love for you to tell the audience how they can find out more about your book and your work and anything else that you want to share with them.

Dr. Jane Greer 45:56
Well, thank you so much. Well, I would love to tell people go to my website www.drJanegreer.com You can buy my book and my lying to myself with Amazon, Barnes and Nobles. A number of other places. They’re all there. Also, I have other books of interest. I have a book, courage to change. In love work in life. I have a book, The Afterlife connection if you’re dealing with any kind of loss of grieving. I have a book 101 Hottest questions. 101 honest answers for anything you want to know about sex. I used to write the sex column for Redbook magazine over the years that I compiled many of the questions and answers that I did in this book. And also, I would love to invite people to listen to my doctor on call Radio Hour at Healthy Life dot debt. It is on the first Wednesday of every month, from 11am to 12am. Eastern Time and 8am to 9am. Pacific Time.

Kevin Anthony 47:00
Wonderful, lots of great stuff there. Yeah, I just actually started reading one of your books. And so far, I’m really enjoying it. So thank you, which one is the afterlife connection? One, that’s the one that I started reading. So, so happy to hear that I’m only about 50 pages in but I’ve really been enjoying it so far.  I read a lot of books. And you know, there are authors that I read. I mean, sometimes they have great information, and sometimes maybe it’s not so great. But assuming that it’s great information. Some authors are really just easy to read. And some are just it’s like a challenge. you’re slogging through it. You’re like, the information is great, but I’m just whatever their writing style was yours is really easy to read. And really. Yeah, it’s just it flows. It’s easy. It’s entertaining. So I’ve been enjoying it.

Dr. Jane Greer 47:51
Thank you so much. Well, I have throughout my career, from my work with patients in the office to teaching to writing books and or doing media and television. I’ve always tried to be user-friendly.

Kevin Anthony 48:05
It’s very important. Yes, be user-friendly. Okay, last question. And this one should not faze you at all, given what you’ve done your whole life. But we asked this to all of the guests on the show, which is oh, what is your best sexual talent?

Dr. Jane Greer 48:24
Oh I am an extremely passionate person. And my passion is everywhere. Sex is pleasure. And I am unbridled in my expression of joy and pleasure with my passion, be it sexual in bed or libidinal in joyful activities. Anything that is fulfilling or gratifying I’m extremely passionate about. I think the people who I work with know that about me. And I would say that that’s pretty much constant from in bed to out of bed to out in the world.

Kevin Anthony 49:11
That’s wonderful. Passion is important when it comes to great sex. You said it. All right. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I think that was really wonderful. And it was a pleasure talking with you.

Dr. Jane Greer 49:25
Thank you. I appreciate it so much. You are a terrific interviewer your questions were so stimulating and thoughtful and just a joy to answer. So thank you.

Kevin Anthony 49:36
Thank you. All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And I will see you next week.

We hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 49:55
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault. That’s kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault.

Kevin Anthony 50:09
Thanks for listening,

Céline Remy 50:11
and remember, you’re amazing