The Secret To Success In Love And Business

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Céline Remy and we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 198. And it is titled The secret to success in love and business. Oh, that’s a tall order right there the secret to success in love and business. You know business isn’t necessarily something we talk about on the show, because we’re sex, love, and relationship.

Kevin Anthony 0:48
But what I think is going to be interesting in this particular episode is that some of the things that you need to be successful in your relationship will also transfer over to being successful in your business. And I don’t know, we’ll figure it out as we go along.

Kevin Anthony 1:04
And as we talk with our guests today, but you know, they have that saying like how you do one thing is how you do everything. Like there’s a possibility that that really applies here that some of the things that you would do to really be successful in one would really translate over into another so we’re gonna find out because honestly, I don’t really know but

Céline Remy 1:25
But it’s funny you say that Kevin, because several years ago when I started this business, I had hired a business coach. And that led me to write an article that was like free things your business can teach your relationship because I was really starting to see that.

Céline Remy 1:42
So I’m pretty sure there is a connection for sure. But before we get started, let’s give a big shout-out to our sponsor’s power and mastery. If you want to join the secret club of men who are great in bed, then check out power and mastery at power and mastery.com. It is the most complete sexual mastery training for men.

Céline Remy 2:01
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Céline Remy 2:12
Our guest today is Michelle Hoffman. She is the internet international best-selling author of the books, life worth living, and new management blueprint. clients call her a relationship coach because hey, life is better with good loving it.

Céline Remy 2:27
Michelle empowers people to attract, keep and enjoy loving relationships in their life without losing themselves and being overwhelmed. So welcome, Michelle, to the Love Lab podcast.

Michelle Hoffman 2:39
Thank you so much for having me here at the Love Lab Podcast. I’m so honored to be here.

Kevin Anthony 2:47
All right, so we’d like to just dive right in after our introductions and get right into the nitty-gritty. So, you know, if people haven’t people listening to the pockets, haven’t figured it out yet, we usually do a little bit of a pre-interview call.

Kevin Anthony 3:01
Now, we don’t discuss a lot of deep details, because we want things to be fresh for the show. But there are a few things that we generally learn. So in this case, we learned a little bit about Michelle’s past. And so our first question has to do with that, which is you had the perfect relationship.

Kevin Anthony 3:18
And then something happened. So you know, a lot of what you’re going to be talking about, about the secrets to successful relationships, successful business, and basically just a happy life, you will learn from this experience that you had.

Kevin Anthony 3:33
So I think a good starting point for the audience is to start with, what was that experience? And how did it change your life?

Michelle Hoffman 3:40
Thank you. Good setup right there. So I know that you know, to share my life story and my love story, and you know, where I’m at in the chapters of each, and how they fit together really started when I was a little girl. And every year on my birthday, it was customary in our family to light the candles on your birthday cake. And each year I would close my eyes and blow out the candles and make a wish.

Michelle Hoffman 4:10
And it might be similar to your upbringing, I don’t know. And I’ve asked people what did you wish for when they were a little kids? You know, and chocolate was a big one evidently, a pony, a bike all of these things? Well, since I was a little girl, I always wished to grow up and have the most incredible relationship with a partner. And together we would go through time and adventures and share all of our experiences the two of us in platonic, you know, versus the world or, you know, challenging and taking on the world.

Michelle Hoffman 4:47
Well, it took me a little longer than I thought. But I had a very clear vision and very, very clear understanding of my core values. So it was easy and fun to date. But I was really quite serious. When I found my person, I knew he was the one for me. And in fact, he knew it. Before I did. We met, on a cruise ship, and he and I had gotten together. And we were seated at the wrong dinner table at the wrong dinner seating at the wrong everything. And we received with these two guys.

Michelle Hoffman 5:21
And by the end of dinner, my husband knew that I was the one for him. Later that evening, we encountered each other again on the dance floor. And you know, we had a wonderful time, late in the evening, he was brave enough to kiss me. And I thought I did what every man dreams of when he kisses a woman. I laughed.

Céline Remy 5:52
I was like you swear to pull their leg up your male

Kevin Anthony 5:57
genitals maybe.

Michelle Hoffman 6:01
Now we know that he said she said I’m good, both of you know, of course, laughing is not what every man dreams of when he kisses a woman. And so he was brazen enough to ask, you know what’s so funny. And I said, my whole world has changed. My life was going down the railroad track this way. And now it’s going toward you. And that’s what every man dreams of when he kisses a woman. Right? Baby, the other things that you were saying.

Michelle Hoffman 6:42
So that was really, you know, the beginning of this incredibly wonderful romance and relationship. And we very quickly understood that our core values were in alignment, we were at the very same point. In the relationship arc of our entire lives, we wanted the same things, we wanted them in a very similar timeline. And we really wanted to share them together. That was I mean, it was just so amazing to find that synchronicity with someone and people still talk about this love affair.

Michelle Hoffman 7:18
Because the whole room would light up when they saw us coming in, or one or the other had come in, and we would see each other it was fantastic. That level of knowledge of trust, that someone’s got your back, that you will go through fire for one another, that you know, whatever it is, it’s going to be so much fun, because you’re going to do it together. That’s what changes everything. Anyway, we did enjoy one another and we got married, and we invited children into the world. And once we had our first one on his first birthday, my husband looked at his gorgeous baby.

Michelle Hoffman 8:00
And he said, Go play with your little sister. Oh, you don’t have one. I’ll make you one. And he did. And so you know, now we’ve got the two children. And literally, I mean, it wasn’t a showy life. But it was our fantastic, best version of our life. And we enjoyed every day and every challenge together. And we had it all planned out. And it was perfect until he died. And I thought, Oh my God, I don’t know what to do. The landscape of my future, and how I envisioned it was just scorched.

Michelle Hoffman 8:47
And I realized, it didn’t take me long to understand that doing nothing was no longer an option. Plus, I had made a commitment to raise these two children. I found myself head of household, so parent, and single. And I was like, where’s my partnership? You know, he Oh, and it took me a while. But I figured it out. And I again realigned my goals, my vision, and how I was going to implement what I was going to do as head of household, sole parent, and single. And then I did the same thing for my children.

Michelle Hoffman 9:32
And, you know, people started to notice that I was literally pulling life together and moving forward. And a friend of mine who I used to go running with in high school, went out for a run and had a heart attack and died. And I thought, Oh my God, I don’t know what to do. And then I realized I actually do know what to do when I can’t do anything. So I brought Chinese food because that’s what You should do

Michelle Hoffman 10:02
some little things. I went to his widow and said, This is never going to be okay. I’m going to hold your hand and walk this journey with you, let’s project manage this thing. And I used all of my experience as a portfolio manager, as an executive at a medical publishing company, and as a social scientist at Stanford University. So both personal and professional experience, and pulled everything together so that she and her children can live a full and happy life, just as I was doing with mine.

Michelle Hoffman 10:39
And then my whole community was saying, can you go out and help them, help them? And I’m like, I need to get two jobs. I, you know, what am I doing here? And they’re like, No, this is your job. And we really need you to write a book on this. And I’m like, I did mostly professional writing, and corporate writing, not personal writing. So I was talking with a girlfriend of mine about this. And she says, you know, you should write a book, Why don’t you talk to my husband?

Michelle Hoffman 11:06
He’s written a bunch of books. I said, okay, but who’s your husband? And she looked at me and she was like, huh, she says, Guy Kawasaki. The branding guru of the world, the fella who vandalized Apple computer with Steve Jobs.

Kevin Anthony 11:25
I think I’ve heard of him before.

Michelle Hoffman 11:28
She’s like, you didn’t realize that I’m like, No, it’s not how I choose my friends. So I find myself at a breakfast table, you know, in their home with Guy and Beth. And I told him the story that I just told you. And Guy Kawasaki looks at me. And he points his finger at me. And he says, that’s your book, write the book. And when Guy Kawasaki pointed his finger at you and says write the book, you do.

Kevin Anthony 11:56
So okay, that’s, that’s fantastic. I want to go back to so you figured something out on your own, which you then replicated for your friend, which then the world was calling you to replicate for more people? What was it? What did you figure out? And how did you do it?

Michelle Hoffman 12:15
So the secrets of love and business, by the way, and I started to allude to it here is to create a very clear vision of what it is you’re looking for, who you used to be and who you are now are different. And who you’d like to step into becoming, is a whole clearer vision. So understanding the roles of who you were, who you are, who you’d like to be to create that vision, align your core values with that, and be beautiful I work with my clients. On all of these things. I’ve got exercises, super simple, that clarifies everything, like why don’t they teach us this at school?

Michelle Hoffman 12:59
And why are we not taught at home and with our friends, we just think, Oh, it’ll happen, it’ll happen, it’ll just happen. A little bit of a sudden, it goes a long way. So, you know, vision, align your core values. And the core values are so beautiful, because when you have your core values in place, things that it becomes super easy to coach on, are when people assume somebody should have their best interest in mind, but they have a different set of core values.

Michelle Hoffman 13:38
It doesn’t make sense to seek approval for someone else from someone outside your core value system. Does that sound like it makes sense? Like if you have a very clear set of core values? Would you go seeking approval from someone who has a different set of values?

Céline Remy 13:54
Of course not. That means, you won’t resonate in the same way, you know, be like if you’re seeing the world from totally different lenses and have different goals and, and direction for sure.

Michelle Hoffman 14:07
For sure. But what happens when it’s your parent? Oops.

Kevin Anthony 14:14
So well, you know, when it’s your parent, then what you do is you cut the cord, you bide your time until you’re free from their control, and then you live your life the way you want to live your life. Yeah, so this

Michelle Hoffman 14:25
where the nuances come in because those voices tend to become our inner voice and culturally, nature nurture. And we grow up with this set of guidelines that are internalized. So when I’m working with people, we work on things like your relationship with your inner voice, your relationship with yourself, your relationship with your family, your relationship with intimate partners or prospects of intimate partners, as well as your relationship with your community, and of course, your career and your workplace and at work. work, it’s your relationship with your clients, your internal colleagues, that sort of thing.

Michelle Hoffman 15:06
And your relationship with your success in the workplace. So what we’re talking about here is the relationship with your inner voice. So that’s what you were bringing up. Because to understand why we behave a certain way, way, why we may be running into the same relationship patterns, why we find ourselves attracted to people who are out of sync with us or out of alignment, or many of my clients are super successful professionally. But when it comes to their love life and intimacy, they don’t trust themselves to make good choices.

Michelle Hoffman 15:46
And they don’t know how to navigate obstacles or advocate for themselves, because for some reason, it all changes at home or out of the workplace. And they suddenly go, I mean, I don’t want to say belly up, but it’s like they become submissive, even though they’re strong and successful in the workplace. So to figure out why is that more often than not, they are trying to appeal to, and please, people who are outside of their core values, or the systems were in place, like, I’ve got clients whose parents are long gone, but they’re still behaving in a way that would be appropriate or how they think they should behave.

Michelle Hoffman 16:32
And when I can help them understand that that’s what’s happening. And ask a couple of simple questions like, now that you’re a grown-up like you would point out, and you are independent. What do those people actually want? Or what did they want for you? Do they want you to be in healthy loving relationships? Yes. Do you think that this intimacy is part of that? Yes. Do you think that you can still maintain your individuality and that they would have wanted you to maintain your individuality as a partner in a partnership?

Michelle Hoffman 17:11
Yes. And it sort of just unblocks things. Oh, and awareness becomes so good. I have a quick story for you on that. I have this incredible client, and we met on a breakout session in a networking group. And she was being overlooked. And I kept saying, What about her? What about her? And they almost finished the call without calling on her. And I was like, What about her? And she says, Thank you, Michelle. Nobody sees me. I know I’ve lived my life without being seen or heard. And you saw me? I’m like, Yes, I did. You shine so brightly.

Michelle Hoffman 17:54
Why is it that the people don’t see you? And so she hired me. And what one of our conversations was, I don’t say that I cure claustrophobia. I’m not a healthcare provider. But she was telling a story about how her parents, her mother, and her stepfather were having the worst fight ever, ever. And she was scared because her stepfather had assaulted her in many, many ways, and all the ways you can imagine wrong. And her mother threw her in a closet, a dark, cold closet, and locked the door. And if you were thrown into a dark, cold closet, when you were scared, would it be totally legitimate? Possibly you would be claustrophobic from that point in your life?

Michelle Hoffman 18:51
Yeah. Well, here she is. And she’s all grown up now. And I said, so you’ve been married and divorced and you’ve had children? And would you ever, ever even consider if your child could have been in a dangerous situation, and you needed to address the assault assaulter you know, the potential danger? Would you consider protecting her by putting her in a dark closet and locking the door so that the bad guy couldn’t get her? And she looked at me and took a breath and said my mother put me in the closet to protect me to frighten me.

Michelle Hoffman 19:37
I said could have been she said. So small, dark, the cool place might actually be protection say nice, safe place. She says, Oh my god. Thank you. I can go to the movie theater now. I can take the elevator for For the first time, and I can go use my walk-in closet. Thank you. So it’s so interesting what can be uncovered, when you can, you know, start to listen to what’s happening and why your inner voice is telling you what it’s telling you. But rather than shutting it off, invited in to have a conversation,

Céline Remy 20:21
so So I want to, I want to come back to one thing, I really liked the recipe of having that clear vision, because without that vision, then you don’t know where to align yourself. If you don’t know where you’re going, you’re never going there. But I want to address the place that many people are in, obviously, that was, you know, a terrible loss.

Céline Remy 20:43
And people can have really, you know, pain, something that is really big for them. And that’s the place where they find themselves that it is so hard to pull themselves out of that hole, right? And they can get stuck in either reliving the past, reliving the story, the same emotions of grief of whatever, you know, all of that. Do you have anything, maybe to say? Like, how do you pull yourself out of something that is so painful?

Céline Remy 21:17
Because yes, it’s easy to say, Yeah, I just need a vision and align myself and then take action and have my, my core values. I get that in my mind. But then there’s this emotional pain, there’s this thing weighing us down? How do you get yourself out the hole out of the hole? Basically?

Michelle Hoffman 21:33
That’s a beautiful question. And it’s so so important because people really do get stuck in a place for so many reasons, like legitimate reasons. And it could be by choice. And it could be just by not knowing what to do, or how to move through grief and loss, or trauma, like the story I shared with you, or any kind of big developmental life change. So or even a small one moving from one location to the next, changing schools, changing whatever the things. So I’m going to share with you exactly how to do that.

Michelle Hoffman 22:17
And any, anyone who’s listening to my voice, please, I’m going to use the word grief, you input the right word for you. So I’m going to use grief, you can use trauma, and you can use a specific scenario or situation. But here’s the reality of it. And thank you for highlighting this because this is really key. Grief is complicated. And grief is ambiguous. And when you’re driving somewhere, grief makes your future blurry because your eyes are filled with tears.

Michelle Hoffman 22:52
And you could get a trigger because of a favorite song on the radio. And so it’s literally stopping you from having a clear view of what should be happening, or what could be happening in your life. And people get stuck and hold on to grief. Because they’re so afraid that if they don’t, then they’re not going to be acknowledged who they used to be and how life used to be. And grief, as I said, is looming and grief will roam the house and smother the children at night.

Michelle Hoffman 23:32
And grief will slam your head against the wall, drop you to the kitchen floor, put its foot on your neck, and prevent you from breathing, breathing, or seeing your future. And if you can take a breath and acknowledge and invite Greece in to have a seat at the table and a cup of tea and a conversation to identify what grief holds. So it doesn’t have a hold on you to identify what is it that grief has that you treasure that you can honor. And when you can figure out how to honor what grief holds that you treasure, then grief will actually help move you forward as opposed to having a hold on you.

Michelle Hoffman 24:27
And sometimes it takes someone who has walked this journey or knows how to do that to link arms with you and help walk you through the process. That’s how you can transform what could be a debilitating situation and a life-changing life-ruining situation into one that can actually rebuild your life to be full and happy and filled with laughter and joy and no Oh, you’ve got this, you’ve got this.

Kevin Anthony 25:03
So finding the gift in the grief,

Michelle Hoffman 25:06
finding the gift in the grief, good one,

Céline Remy 25:10
write it down.

Kevin Anthony 25:14
So, you know, there are multiple things that you’ve shared so far that I find interesting. One point I just wanted to come back to, which goes way back to the beginning, was that idea that you know, whether it’s your intimate relationship, or your relationship with your kids, or your relationship with your business partners, or your company, or whatever it is, they’re all relationships, right.

Kevin Anthony 25:37
And so coming back to sort of the title of our show, which is that if you can really learn how to master relationships, probably starting with your relationship with yourself, and going from there, but then you’re going to see the quality of all those relationships improve. So that was one thing that I wanted to just kind of remind the listeners. The second thing was, and this was the bigger point that you made, which is that how much of how we show up in our relationships is dictated by our past by whatever traumas we’ve had, you know, whether they were your mother locking you in a closet, you know, or

Céline Remy 26:18
your parents telling you, you’re not smart enough or telling you you’ll never do this. Or

Michelle Hoffman 26:26
I’ve got a client whose mother tells her She’s too smart. And she’ll never find a partner unless she just dumbs herself down. Go either way, horrible

Kevin Anthony 26:35
advice.

Céline Remy 26:38
I have been told that

Michelle Hoffman 26:41
her mom and her mom, you know, I’m all about a meeting where they’re at her mother, the message was intended well and with love. So what I say I don’t know, I use the same hand signals every time. So her mother loves her and wants the best for her. And she’s giving the best advice you possibly can, given her life experience. But my client’s life experience is different. So to take all the good qualities and all the love that her mother has to share, and do what’s right for her, in her one precious life is the right way to do it.

Michelle Hoffman 27:15
And for her to find a partner who appreciates and adores her for her brilliance is going to be such a more enhanced life experience for her. So one of the things is I’ve given her permission to be brilliant. And it’s very exciting to see how, and I’ll answer another question that you had or the question that you were asking, but I know that you go into anyway is that she now understands relationships, and she can identify somebody who’s going to be attracted to her for who she truly is.

Michelle Hoffman 27:51
So where you are going, there were two things you were saying, I think you’re asking me about relationship cycles, both personal and professional relationship cycles, and how you show up, but I didn’t mean to interrupt you, I want to make sure I’m answering the right.

Céline Remy 28:07
It’s funny, I was going to go there. And before we dive into that, because this is fascinating the relationship cycles, how people get stuck in some phases, how to pull yourself out of that. I want to do a quick little break to our sponsors, and then we’ll get back into those. So this is for all of you listeners who want to shop great products from us from my handpicked affiliates.

Céline Remy 28:27
Kevin and I have hand-selected some great products to help you support your health, sex life, and relationship, and purchasing any of these products from us and our affiliates helps support the work that we do. And it ensures that we can continue to help as many people and couples as possible. You’ll find anything from courses that are helpful supplements biohacking tools, I mean, so many things. Exactly, to upgrade,

Kevin Anthony 28:52
to play, significant other staffing to inspire.

Céline Remy 28:55
So make sure you go check this out at Céline remy.com, forward slash products, and we appreciate you for supporting us and the work that we do. Alright, Michelle, back to our relationship.

Kevin Anthony 29:08
I wanted to make one other point to something that just popped into my head when you’re talking about well, you know, her mother gave her that advice, you know, from her heart like that she really meant and it just reminded me of the saying The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right, which is a lot of the time, you know, our parents or maybe even our teachers are the central figures in our life when we’re younger, have good intentions, but they don’t have the awareness to realize that the things that they’re telling us could have disastrous consequences for us down the road.

Michelle Hoffman 29:44
They mean, well, they really wouldn’t have said it otherwise. They’re not like how do I sabotage this person 20 years from now. They do mean well and given their life experience and they’re, you know, what they’ve learned, they’re speaking in the hopes that they’re imparting the best wisdom that you can internalize and interpret and then use to your best knowledge.

Michelle Hoffman 30:14
I mean, I’m just what’s coming to my mind what is inventions and innovations that were, you know, new 20 years ago, there don’t even apply anymore. Because we’re so much further advanced in the way that we use innovation and this sort of thing. So, you know, my great grandfather might have been like, this is the best, you know, wait for form of transportation ever, and I’m going to be like, we’re so far ahead of that.

Kevin Anthony 30:47
I just wish they could give disclaimers about, hey, this is what worked for me, I don’t know if it’s gonna work for you. But let me impart this to you, and you make up your own mind instead of this is the way you should do it. This is the way that it works. Anyway, yeah, that’s, I

Michelle Hoffman 31:01
would say, Here’s my mother’s advice for that. If you’re trying to please everyone, everywhere, it’s just impossible. And one day, I was trying to, you know, take care of everyone and everything, wondering who was taking care of me. And she looked at me and she said, Michelle, where are your Wonder Woman cuffs and shield, you can’t please everyone do what’s right for you and your family.

Michelle Hoffman 31:26
And so I’m going to accredit her for that one, then she bought me two bracelets, and I’m like this, I have in my life, my way that works for us, you literally can’t please everybody, you can only do it your way, you know what you need?

Kevin Anthony 31:42
Absolutely. So let’s change gears a little bit and get back to what we started talking about before our sponsor break, which is the three phases that relationships go through. So you have it narrowed down into these three phases here, and maybe you could explain to the listeners, what those phases are,

Michelle Hoffman 32:00
I would be happy to. All right, so what I’d like for you to do, as I’m going through this is choose a relationship that suits you, or someone that you would like to be in or that you’ve been in recently so that you can really apply this to your life. And I’m going to give you a little secret insight into this. Consider something that many people know is developing a resume. And your resume is your personal profile that helps prepare you to understand your skillset, and also supports your successful career trajectory.

Michelle Hoffman 32:40
Now, in today’s dating world, if you are online dating and or if you’re dating organically in the wild, completing a, a profile, like a personal profile, does something very similar to your resume, that’s going to help you in your career, your personal profile is actually going to help give you clarity in who you actually are. And the right person you would like to attract to invite into your life. So resume your personal profile. So it’s either a career trajectory, or you know, a dating intimate trajectory.

Michelle Hoffman 33:21
But it’s also just who you’d like to invite into the Venn diagram of your life into your inner circle. And I know I mentioned earlier, we have this relationship timeline in our lives, and where are you at in that. And then when my husband and I met my late husband and I met, we were really at the same point in what we were looking for, in the next steps in our life, which really made that intersection, quite easy to enjoy.

Michelle Hoffman 33:51
It was just really beautiful. So now, every single relationship that you’re in, and you’re thinking of one now, okay, goes through three phases, from chemistry to casual to committed. Now, I’m going to walk through each phase. And I’d like you to think in your mind’s eye, how it worked for you, for example, if you are online dating, and somebody has caught your eye, and they have liked you, that gives you this endorphin rush. It’s like this person who looks particularly interesting, who I might want to share some time with, likes me too.

Michelle Hoffman 34:33
It might be interesting to connect with that person and the Law of Attraction may even bring you together. So you uplevel the relationship with communication. And you start to connect with this person. And let’s say it’s kind of fun banter, and you’re learning about this person. And if you were working with me, we would have already figured out your core values and you would be asking open-ended questions to figure out their core values and see how they might align.

Michelle Hoffman 35:02
Because activities and events that you share together are wonderful fun. And it’s really a great way to allow the law of attraction to bring you together, core values are an enduring way to make relationships last. So here we are in the chemistry as the dog behind me.

Kevin Anthony 35:22
Just hungry.

Céline Remy 35:32
She likes this part, too.

Michelle Hoffman 35:34
We all do.

Kevin Anthony 35:35
It loves the chemistry part.

Michelle Hoffman 35:38
Because you, you’re like, oh my god, this is so exciting. And I have a date with this person. And you might like to get a new outfit, you’re going to organize your day to be excited about seeing this person, I hope you dress appropriately. And that you show up on time ready to see this person for the first time in real life. And that first moment where your eyes meet, it’s like, oh, you’re both happy to see each other.

Michelle Hoffman 36:07
And you’re everything that you’ve said you are. And literally walking toward one another is exciting. And you get a serotonin rush and endorphin rush, the oxytocin in your body, the cuddle drugs going crazy, this is good. And you, you know, connect, you might have a little hug, a small kiss, and you sit down together and you start to get to know one another.

Michelle Hoffman 36:33
And this part of the experience is literally like an indulgence of chocolate, it feels so euphoric. So this is the chemistry phase where everything is right. And it is like you are looking for what’s right in this person, you are seeing the possibility in this relationship, it is so exciting. You’re like, I mean, you know, I got a kiss on that day.

Michelle Hoffman 37:04
It was like, so good. So now let’s say this date just went beautifully. And you’re going to go out again. And this time, you’re actually going to step into the chemistry or the casual phase just a little bit. And these are not clearly defined phases, you there are different aspects that run through, because maybe that you’re like feeling a little committed to like, what could the possibility be with this person.

Michelle Hoffman 37:36
And as you move forward, and you continue to see one another, what happens in the casual phase of relationships is very, very comforting. And it’s the I got this. And we know we as mammals really enjoy looking forward to being able to anticipate and having our expectations met and exceeded in what we think is going to happen. So let’s say you go out a second and a third time, maybe more.

Michelle Hoffman 38:07
And you spend time together and you laugh, and it’s fun, and everything is right. And then you know a couple of things because you’re like, we’re going out again. And I know that we’re going to kiss again. And it’s going to be the best kiss you’ve ever had. And then the next time you’re like, No, we get to kiss again. And that anticipation is like, yes, so exciting. And this is the casual phase where we get to be comfortable.

Michelle Hoffman 38:39
And then you start to say, Huh, I know we’ve kind of set a rhythm in this and we both like it very much. Now there’s something else that happens in the casual phase of a relationship. In this part of the relationship, what also happens is we start to see the differences between us. In the chemistry phase, we tend to see what’s the like, and what’s positive. In the casual phase, we are enjoying what we’re anticipating, and we’re seeing what is different?

Michelle Hoffman 39:10
And is this going to throw a red flag in the year? Is it going to add a red flag could be a deal-breaker? It could be a no this is not the right fit. I don’t feel like you’re somebody that I should align with. That’s a deal-breaker, it’s time to say thank you very much. This was very exciting. But we’re not a match and free that person up to go find the right person and you up to find your person. It could be a yellow flag.

Michelle Hoffman 39:40
And then the case of a yellow flag. Sometimes you just need to clear the air of what you think this picture would look like with the both of you in it versus the reality of what that looks like. Because our brains will fill out a picture to give us comfort and many times we need to clear things to differentiate what I thought this might be versus what it’s really like, Who are you truly.

Michelle Hoffman 40:08
So in this casual phase, if there are red flags, those could be deal-breakers, yellow flags, I teach my clients how to clear that. To make it clear. Is it a red flag deal breaker? Or is it a green light go? And if it’s a green light, and you’ve cleared what you thought might cause an issue, but it’s not that like, oh, I don’t know, spoons on the counter, why do you leave the spoons on the counter? Or why isn’t the spoon spooning in the drawer? I do know a person that’s a deal-breaker for them. They need the spoon spooning. So if you can’t spoon the spoon, it’s not going to work with that specific person.

Kevin Anthony 40:52
It’s simple, yet tough. I mean, what other things they got going on?

Michelle Hoffman 40:58
Right, but that’s the thing. So that person needed to know this was a thing, can they find someone who will keep the spoon spooning. And I use it as an example because not many of us have that big of an issue with this spooners spoon spinning. There’s a riddle in there rhyme in there somewhere. So let’s say you’ve gone from chemistry to casual. And every there are no red lights, the yellow lights have been cleared.

Michelle Hoffman 41:30
And they turn into green go lights. And now you’re in the committed phase of your relationship. And I’ll give you an example. Maybe somebody says, This is my partner, and introduces you or this is my boyfriend, this is my girlfriend. This is someone who has now been given a more intimate title, showing the value of the relationship that then throws the two of you right forward into chemistry again, because that’s exciting if that’s where you both wanted to go.

Michelle Hoffman 42:02
And then you see everything right, and you try it on. Girls, girlfriends, boyfriend partners. And it’s so exciting and so fun. And then you might go through the casual phase as a partner and then go into the committed phase, then maybe you move in. And if the spoons are spooning, and everything’s going well, maybe you make that a more committed relationship. So you see how it continues to cycle.

Michelle Hoffman 42:31
I have a client who hired me, she said, Where would you 30 years ago, I would not have married the man I married, it was 15 years of suffering three boys later, three children later, and I finally disengaged from him. And now I’m married to the right person. And she’s gonna keep me on a retainer because she wants to make sure this relationship lasts. And she wants to rebuild the relationship with her sons.

Michelle Hoffman 42:58
But here’s why I bring this up. Because she and her now incredible husband, who have a beautiful relationship in every way, decided that he should get a high-powered job. And guess what? He got it. So they’re very excited. But she suddenly became a victim, because are feeling like a victim, because he’s spending all this time with this other relationship. And so these relationships, from chemistry to casual to committed, intertwine like Olympic rings. So they have an intimate relationship as a married couple.

Michelle Hoffman 43:38
Together, they decided he would take this opportunity with this very large organization that you would know the name of. And he took the job. And now he’s got a relationship where he’s leaping into this role, from chemistry to casual to committed with this company. And she’s saying, but he doesn’t have the time for me that he used to have. And so I helped her understand how to transform that from being a victim to actually riding the wave.

Michelle Hoffman 44:10
And we talked about different ways and she’s decided to be the reward that he comes home to. And they should probably touch base with all of your sponsors, let’s just say. Yeah, they should. So what we did was we just adjusted the perception that they had, because they both want him to do well at work. And it’s also now freed her up to know that he can go and work he doesn’t have to worry about their relationship. He can move from chemistry to casual to committed with all of his colleagues and all of his important responsibilities at work.

Michelle Hoffman 44:56
He’s got this and from there he can then know that he doesn’t have to worry his wife will be there when you get home. And they scheduled time together that’s very intimate and very positive, that they can both enjoy one another and be the reward. They’re doing all the work to do. So it’s the work-life balance.

Kevin Anthony 45:18
Yeah. So you know, you know, in our house, we have spoons that are both spooning and 6090. Notice that that’s true. Right? So we’ve got some fun spoons and this

Michelle Hoffman 45:35
The spoons at your house?

Kevin Anthony 45:37
Oh, yes, we’ve got a lot of

Michelle Hoffman 45:42
better, you know, there’s, I don’t, I’m not gonna assume or say anything. But I think that now could be like the upside-down pineapple for polyamorous people. Your spells are in disarray. You got this.

Kevin Anthony 45:56
So we’re getting towards the end of the show. So we don’t have a lot of time. And of course, we have the famous last question we want to ask, but before that, I just have kind of one sort of follow up on these three phases, which is I’m wondering, is there a particular phase that some people tend to get sort of caught up in that maybe prevents them from going through this, the cycle over and over again? And if so, what’s the how do they get out of that?

Michelle Hoffman 46:23
A beautiful and very perceptive question. So here’s what happens in relationships, more than somebody getting stuck in one phase is that people will be at different points in their relationship in what they desire. So there are many nuances to relationships, and even in the relationship cycles that they’re in. So here’s how it goes, I’m going to use a client as an example.

Michelle Hoffman 46:51
She is dating this guy who adores her like a goddess, a goddess, and he from the moment they met, was ready to be in a committed relationship with her. Now that intention is exactly what she’s always wanted. And she’s even said to me, you know, you got to be careful what you ask for because you might actually get it. And she’s saying, But wait for a second, you know, I’m not ready to jump into an arranged marriage with you. I want to actually go through the process from chemistry to casual to committed, and she’s now laid this out for him.

Michelle Hoffman 47:29
And so he’s still he’s now become quite acutely aware of where they’re at. And where he then is maybe pushing her into a committed relationship, rather than just enjoying the law of attraction and the time where they get to know one another and see how they flow together? And how they agree on things. And where do they disagree on things? What do they love, sharing time discussing all of the things that you know how to how to find the right match for you?

Michelle Hoffman 48:04
And in this situation, she is not aware. I mean, it’s interesting, because she doesn’t feel worthy there. really two reasons that relationships don’t work, someone feels like they’re not worthy, or they’re not enough, resulting in them not being lovable. So she realized she wasn’t feeling valuable enough that she wasn’t feeling like she was contributing enough to the relationship.

Michelle Hoffman 48:33
So she came to me with a very different challenge. And what in our discussion came out, is that here’s this incredible boyfriend, who is probably the right match for her, and he is ready to move in, he’s ready to start to move into the committed phase. And she doesn’t feel like she’s worth it. Like she’s valuable enough. And she needed me in this case, to start to monetize some of the value she adds to the relationship. And I don’t typically do that.

Michelle Hoffman 49:10
Because it’s, you know, there’s no value you can place on something as important as a deep meaningful connection and love. But she needed a place to meet and where they were at. So she needed to know something. And so we started to quantify if you had to pay someone to do what you bring to this relationship, how much would that cost? All told, by the end of the conversation, she was valued at over $3 million, just this year alone. And she’s like, I never saw that coming.

Michelle Hoffman 49:46
And it’s sort of I mean, it’s a was an unusual way to perceive things, but she needed it to be quantified. So now that she started to see her own value, and we unlocked some other putting Central for her, her business is growing. She’s bringing in all kinds of revenue. She’s getting celebrity recognition in a way that she didn’t anticipate. She’s been awarded things. It’s coming right and left. She’s being I mean, TEDx talks, she’s in the top magazines. She’s in the music industry. She’s got all of these amazing things going for her that had been opened up. And she was the one who didn’t realize that she was holding him down.

Kevin Anthony 50:32
Yeah, so the thing going on here is, you know, because the original question was, where do people get stuck in the cycle. And just to clarify, for the audience, what’s really happening is not so much that people get stuck, it’s that they get out of phase, right? That one person or relationship is in one phase of the cycle, and the other person is in another phase of the cycle.

Kevin Anthony 50:52
And so the way that they chose to solve that, and I think is probably the way that would work for everybody, you need to communicate, right, you need to make sure that you both understand, hey, here’s where I’m at, oh, here’s where I’m at. Okay, if we’re not in the same place, how do we get to the same place? Right? Like, how do we get to that same phase so that we can continue on together? It was reminding me again, of something I read. Last week, we had two authors on the show as well.

Kevin Anthony 51:19
And I was reading their book, and they had a line in the book, it said, I’m paraphrasing, but it was basically something along the lines of the biggest mistake people make in communication is thinking that it has occurred, right. Which is, which is the whole idea is like, if you’re not communicating to this person about where you’re at in this cycle, you have no idea if they’re actually in alignment with you or not.

Michelle Hoffman 51:46
So there’s a triad there are three things that are required to uplevel a relationship, communication, as you pointed out, and when you communicate consistently, and clearly, which sometimes you need someone to help you, you know, re-assess the situation. So communication, so that, you know, and I often my clients will call me and say, I need the three easy steps to bring up a potential relationship-ending conversation with my partner, and I don’t want the Partnership to End, what do I do?

Michelle Hoffman 52:20
So I gave them three easy steps. And I can tell you about the second, but the triad to uplevel a relationship is communication, consistent communication, but it’s clear, your partner’s not a mind reader, you really do need to share the information. Trust and consistent communication build trust. And if you can continue that back and forth, it builds respect. So through communication, trust, and respect, that’s how to really uplevel a relationship, which it sounds like that’s what your other guests were alluding to. Also. It’s just not fair. We’re not mind readers,

Kevin Anthony 53:00
that is very true. Okay, there’s, there’s so much more that we could go into, but we are definitely running out of time. And well,

Céline Remy 53:07
let’s just have her give the free steps because she could give it to and I’m thinking about all the nice things that are in this situation. I need to get it you know, I listen to a show and they don’t give me what they said they were to go like. So let’s give those three steps quickly. And then also then tell them where they can find you to get more.

Michelle Hoffman 53:28
I’ll tell you what I’m How about we just go for a cliffhanger. If you need the three easy steps to navigate challenges in your relationship. You are welcome to schedule time with me at the art of relationship bing.com.

Céline Remy 53:44
There you go. Got both of them in one second.

Kevin Anthony 53:49
Okay. Well go ahead and ask our

Céline Remy 53:53
Oh, yeah, it’s my favorite juicy question. Michelle, we want to know, what is your best sexual talent?

Michelle Hoffman 54:00
Oh, well, my best sexual talent is the relationship thing. I understand that the greatest sex of all time happens. And in my interpretation, it’s a very high-level intimate communication. And because that can happen. I know that my best sexual positions are all about open communication, trust, and respect. And that’s the connection that I wish everyone to have to bet to have the best orgasms.

Céline Remy 54:37
All right, Michelle, thank you so much for being here on the show. The best way to connect with you is through your website. And then your books can be found on I mean, I’m imagining any places that sell books, or do you have a favorite place for them to get them

Michelle Hoffman 54:53
so you can access them at the art of relationshipping.com My I was picked up by a publisher, there are electronic, print copies, and audibles on my books. And if you go to the art of relationship bing.com, you can go to Resources and click right there and get them.

Kevin Anthony 55:15
Awesome. And that link, of course, will be in the details. As always, art. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your knowledge and your wisdom, and your life experience. I hope that everybody got value out of it.

Michelle Hoffman 55:30
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure

Kevin Anthony 55:34
to be here. All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And we will see you next week. We hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 55:53
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault.  Thanks for listening. And remember, you’re amazing