Healing After An Affair With Greg Dudzinski

Kevin Anthony 0:12
Welcome to the love lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man, woman, single or couple, this is the show for you. Because well, sex matters… We are your hosts Kevin Anthony and Celine Remy.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
Welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 65. And it’s titled healing after an affair with Greg Dudzinski. And I think this is going to be a really fun episode because we had a little bit of pre-chat with Greg before we started and it was pretty fun. So I’m excited about this one.

Céline Remy 0:47
I am too and what I like to said we’re going to bring some lightness into this heavy subject matter and that thing, it’s much needed and I’m really excited because we got some really cool questions.

Céline Remy 1:00
I want to get to the bottom of this, and I’m sure Greg will help us get there. So, before we get to formally introduce Greg, let’s give a shout out to our sponsor power and mastery, which is the most complete sexual training for men to develop your stamina, boost your confidence and enhance your sexual liability. So make sure you check out power and mastery at power and mastery.com if you are ready to seriously change your sex life.

Céline Remy 1:26
Now, let’s talk more about Greg So Greg Dudzinski is also known as Detroit’s Love Guru. He is a licensed professional counselor relationship and sex specialist and an author of helping you have the relationship you crave. And if you want to find more about Greg, you can go visit his website at theartofrelationships.org. So we are excited to be having you today on the show. Greg, welcome.

Greg Dudzinski 1:58
Thank you so much, Celine and Kevin. And I’m excited to be here. It’s fun, like even talking about pre-chat, if you will, before the recording, it’s going to be fun. And it is it’s a very difficult topic. You know, when someone gets cheated on as you know, man, it’s devastating all your hopes all your dreams get I tell people, they get shattered and trying to heal from it and rebuild from that. And a lot of people think you can’t do it.

Greg Dudzinski 2:25
But I have a lot of proof that it can even make the marriage or relationship a lot stronger. I don’t recommend cheating in order to get your relationship or marriage, you know, stronger Hell no. But it can be done. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of guts and a lot of courage to kick that up. So I appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much.

Kevin Anthony 2:47
You’re welcome. We’re going to dive pretty deep into that. We’ve got some good questions to try and pull some of that out. But before we kind of get into that, I wanted to start just with like, how prevalent is cheating and I looked up a few stats, I didn’t do a super deep research on this, because actually, I wanted to get your take on it, but just to throw out a few of the things that that I found when researching it.

Kevin Anthony 3:09
So I found this website called the Institute for Family Studies, and they had stats as of 2018. And they were saying that 16% of people reported having sex with someone other than their spouse while married. And then they broke that down between men and women. So 20% were men and 13% were women. And what I found interesting about that is, okay, 16% It doesn’t sound like that high of a number. But first of all, this is only talking about people who are married.

Kevin Anthony 3:41
So these stats were only interviewing people who are married, which means people who are in relationships, but not actually married haven’t even been counted in this. So I’m guessing that that’s probably an even higher number. And then the other thing that I thought was interesting was that you know, people have in their minds that the difference between men and women is like, you know, 3% women and 50-60% of men.

Kevin Anthony 4:05
And what you realize is, they’re a lot closer than you think. And so the first question I wanted to ask you, Greg was, you know, do you have more stats or more info that you could share that kind of show? You know, what the scope of the problem is?

Greg Dudzinski 4:21
That, OK, now the scope of the problem or the stats?

Kevin Anthony 4:26
Let’s start with the stats, and then they go into the scope.

Greg Dudzinski 4:30
A lot of stats, I tell people, even if they mean well, some stats are very biased. You know, you can have women activists, groups, organizations that will buy a statue of men’s group, um, the differentiation, you’re right, there’s like differentiation between like they say, 20 to 30% differentiation that more men cheat than women. And I can tell you, that is not even close. Kevin, you’re absolutely right. It’s very very, you know, you have men here, you have women here.

Greg Dudzinski 5:03
Now, when they talk about, you know, having, you know, 16% having sex outside the marriage, whatever, I would assume it is probably closer to 30% in all honesty, but then you also have to throw in different types of affairs. Is it just sex you’re talking about is you know, everybody is familiar, I think what’s you know, difference emotional affair, you know, that it’s, oops, I was drunk and bang somebody else. And or the combination, I call that combination affair, or it’s sex and it’s emotional.

It’s intimate, which is very, very difficult to get through man only for the couple that wants to heal their relationship or marriage, but the one that was in it there, you know, sort of losing that all the person they were close to, and it’s very dicey to deal with, it’s a lot more difficult to heal.

Céline Remy 6:01
I love the distinctions and I think I want to dive deeper in a little bit later. I want to take one step back before we dive in more there in like, okay, we’re talking about cheating. Why do you think people cheat? Let’s start with that.

Greg Dudzinski 6:17
There are so many and there’s been a lot of research and one person. I mean, everyone’s probably I’ll give her props. Esther Perel, everybody’s heard of her. She’s a great lady, dynamic lady, arm, got a known been around for a long time, but dynamic lady. And there’s a lot of things I agree with her. And there’s, everybody tries to assume affairs cheating Catherine for one or two reasons. It’s not that simple. A lot of people in my experience, most couples that I deal with in my office, I’m going to say probably 80% of the couples I deal with maybe a little more, one of them cheated one form or another.

Greg Dudzinski 6:56
She cheated. He cheated. They both cheated, you know, had an emotional fair, actually a sexual affair with somebody else. That’s usually what I deal with in my office. They come most of those situations still come in. Because they’re not feeling loved, not feeling desire, not feeling maybe appreciated, that type of thing. Then, someone, I tell people chirps in your ear. It’s like an addiction, it makes you feel great, it makes you feel, then it turns into more talking. And then it turns into more emotional sharing.

Greg Dudzinski 7:29
And sometimes more than not, it might turn into a sexual manifestation, if you will. And there are some people say there are people out there that are dogs are that are hoes, they’ll never change. If you want to stay with that you want me I tell people you want me to help you be happy with him cheating or cheating all the time. I’ll do my best. But you know what, it’s up to you. You know. And so you look at and there’s you know, people also have affairs out of boredom, which might go in line with not feeling you know, desired love, the passion dies.

Greg Dudzinski 8:05
Instead of working at it. They look outside their relationship. ego, that’s another one right? A woman doesn’t feel attractive, beautiful, hot, sexy, or he might not he someone makes them feel that way and build your ego up. So there’s a lot of dynamics and everybody tries to simplify cheating affairs. It’s not that simple.

Kevin Anthony 8:28
Yeah, absolutely. And, and, of course, we’re going to dive a little bit more into some of the things that you just talked about. But I love the way that you really brought out the fact that it’s not just black and white. It’s not just simple, because everything that you suggested, all those even little things about not feeling appreciated, is absolutely true. We even see that in the work that we do with clients. And we’ll dive more into that later.

Kevin Anthony 8:52
Because that starts to hint towards what the solutions are. But there are some other things that we want to cover before we get there. So, so the next question is, so we noticed on your site that you have a whole thing about the myths about cheating. Yes. And so I would love if you could tell the audience what some of those myths are.

Greg Dudzinski 9:15
Oh, I think we talked about while some of them might have, you know, that, okay, they cheat because they don’t love their partner, that’s a big thing. Everyone, oh, they, if they really love you, they want cheap, that’s not true. A lot of times people, they’ll have an affair cheat because they want to feel that from their current partner that they’re not getting, but they want that from their partner. So that is a huge Myth number one, that, um, you know what, that partner that cheats on you that they don’t love you? It is possible, I’m not going to say it isn’t.

Greg Dudzinski 9:48
But that’s a huge myth. Most of the time, that’s not the case. The other myth everybody’s heard, right, let’s throw it out there. Once a cheater, always a cheater. That’s so not true. Most cases I deal with and I can’t speak for anybody else about myself, my practice for almost 20 years that I talked about, that’s so not true. A lot of people they feel you know, guilty, they feel, you know, miserable, that they sold themselves out and also hurt their partner, and it came to that, and chances are, you know, they’re not going to cheat again, okay? That your marriage or relationship cannot ever survive after an affair. That’s another myth coming up.

Greg Dudzinski 10:33
What other myths? Have you seen? or heard? That they cheat just because of the sex? Or what’s the other myth? They cheat, because, oh, they cheat with someone that’s a lot more attractive than the current partner. That’s a lot of time the opposite. It’s like you’re in love with her? No, I joke around, you know, you’re like you cheated. What? For real? Now, a lot of times, that’s where the emotional connection is passion comes from.

So it’s not always about someone over there cheating with someone because they’re a lot more physically attracted than the current partner. That’s another myth out there, too. Yes, it does happen. But it’s, it’s total, what do I want to say? I would say it’s totally missed produced if you are promoted in that way, that’s not the case at all.

Kevin Anthony 11:24
I would say I would add to that, too, because of you kind of what have we seen. And I would say that one of the ones that we see is, people, feel that if their needs aren’t being met in their immediate relationship, that’s the only way that they can get those needs met, is to cheat. And that’s one that we see. Because, you know, we work a lot on the side of people’s sex life in particular. And so they’re not feeling fulfilled in their sex life. Right.

And so they think, yeah, you know, my partner would never go for anything else. There’s no way I can have my needs met, unless I go outside without him or her knowing that’s, that’s a big myth that we see. And we try to help people with that, cuz that’s,

Greg Dudzinski 12:01
That’s awesome. Or even what about even talking about issues, they can’t talk to other partners. So there’s like I said, there’s a lot of dynamics out there that, you know, they cheat. And their partner might not have even a clue what they’re feeling they cheat. They never even knew they felt this way. We’re cutting back remedy years ago, months ago, and start off, you know what? cheating.

Céline Remy 12:26
So I would love to go back to the different affairs that you were mentioning with emotional versus physical adjust sex. And because to me, it’s a very interesting subject. Because when I think of emotional affair, so some people, for example, will consider cheating, watching porn, or texting another person of the opposite gender. And to me, watching porn to me does not fall in the cheating category. I mean, it can fall in the lying category, if you say you’re not watching it.

Céline Remy 13:01
But I don’t think it’s cheating in my opinion, and texting somebody else on the other gender again, it depends on what’s the intent, you know, and I think it’s healthy to flirt. What I’ve noticed too, is oftentimes flirting with somebody else that’s not like your husband or a wife or partner. Just with intentional feeling. The flirtatiousness is helping you feel it with your partner. I flirt, but I’m what do you do?

Greg Dudzinski 13:35
You go away for a little bit.

Céline Remy 13:39
I like to flirt in front of Kevin too.

Kevin Anthony 13:42
You totally do.

Greg Dudzinski 13:43
Does that turn him on?

Céline Remy 13:46
Well, the thing is, it turns me on and then I can bring that back to Kevin and so to us, that’s how it works. I mean, we’re monogamous or monogamish, whatever you want to say but like we okay with this type of behavior, because we see that it actually brings some juiciness back into our relationship.

Greg Dudzinski 14:05
Nice choice. So words I was gonna say, doesn’t matter who gets you what, as long as you bring it back? Throw up about the juiciness.

Céline Remy 14:17
We on the same wavelength.

Greg Dudzinski 14:21
That’s a great point. I don’t I tell people all the time, you’re going to have people out there and I don’t want to disrespect anybody. However, here we go. religious zealots. You have a lot of conservative individuals out there that will deem what is cheating, what is not watching porn. There are some people are watching. If he or she watches porn, they’re cheating on me. As you said, I don’t look at it that way. However, I don’t define what is cheating, that needs to be left up to each individual, not only individual person but what that constitutes as cheating to each person.

Greg Dudzinski 15:00
Everybody is different. You know, you can have somebody, they’ll flirt, whatever they’ll show, look at her, she’s hot, isn’t she great? And what I read all look and all this stuff. But again, everybody wants to define what cheating is, it needs to be. And I’ll never back down from this. It needs to be defined by each individual and each couple. And that, you know, if you’ve dynamic and a lot of people look at, you know, open relationships or no working with a lot of open relationships, poly situations, swingers, I work with quite a few of them as well.

Greg Dudzinski 15:37
And all that’s cheating. No, it isn’t. to them. It’s not cheating. If it’s consensual, and everybody’s in agreement. So I don’t define those rules. The couples do or should that make sense?

Kevin Anthony 15:50
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s great. I think that’s really the way you have to look at it, you know, is what is cheating mean to the people who are saying sitting there in front of you in your office? And if you’re listening to the show, maybe give a little reflection to What does cheating mean within the dynamic of your relationship rather than looking at society out there?

Kevin Anthony 16:13
Because society says cheating means this, you know, what does it mean for you?

Céline Remy 16:17
What a great date night, get together and talk about all of this and put together some cool agreements have deeper understanding, communication is lubrication, remember, so if you get to like this clarity, trust us, and late-night evening will be fantastic.

Kevin Anthony 16:33
So for geeks like us that that is something we would actually do on a date night, you know, for the rest of you, if that’s not your idea of a date night, just make sure you have some time to have that conversation.

Greg Dudzinski 16:46
It gets really dicey when people disagree, right? Like watching porn is sheet notice, and they’ll argue and all this stuff. And that’s where it gets even more difficult if you can get, you know, both individuals to agree. You know, what, what does that mean? You know, what does cheating mean? The context boundaries, that type of aspect, it makes it a lot easier, but when they’re polar opposites, man, whoo, then you start looking at maybe you want different relationship styles, right?

Kevin Anthony 17:19
So, you know, that’s a great segue into sort of the next question, which is, and I know, this is really broad, and it’s so case by case. So I don’t expect you to be able to give everything but if there were some general guidelines that would help people when they experienced a cheating situation, you know, what would be your recommendation for how somebody would start about on a healing path or healing journey?

Greg Dudzinski 17:45
healing pathway, um, it’s, let’s face it, it’s very, very difficult. You have to look at it, I try to work fast with it. But number one, I tell people, you might have heard this, you know, Kevin, saline, you might have heard this before. Number one, we need to know what caused it that doesn’t condone or excuse the affair. regardless of what type of affair, you know, cheating, it is okay. It could be maybe talking behind someone’s back, they that could be cheating, right. So everybody is different, we have to look at what caused it.

Greg Dudzinski 18:16
Number two, which is so damn important, crucial, is their genuine remorse and guilt for their actions. Not that they got caught, but they actually are sorry for the pain they caused their part that has to be in place. And if it isn’t in place, it’s going to be almost impossible to build that trust back. And then the number. The third one is, of course, is looking at almost guaranteeing it promising, it’s not going to happen again. And it’s very difficult because when you go in one person on never cheat again. And most of their needs are not being met in a marriage or relationship.

They’re going to be miserable. But hey, I’m not going to cheat anymore. It’s very difficult. It’s up to the couple to decide what they want to do to go from there. But they’ll it’s crucial.

Greg Dudzinski 19:07
And when I tell people that do the betraying, they need to eat shit for a while to earn that trust back. It’s not a no, I get people all the time. Oh, my God, Greg, get them off my ass, you know, get her off my ass. I already said I’m sorry. It’s been a week since I cheated. Now. I’m like, excuse me what you say I hear you correctly. A weekend. That’s part of like I said, you need to eat shit. And the more you do that, and you’re more consistent about that, the easier it can be in the quicker that the healing can set it. There are no guarantees, of course, by try to stack the deck in the favor.

Greg Dudzinski 19:46
And again, that person really needs to have to work on it. If it’s a month, two months later, I can’t believe you cheated. You know what, I’m sorry, I don’t I get I destroyed you. I you know, killed you. I want to work my ass off to get that back. And it’s so crucial to behave Oh my god, it’s been a month, let it go. You do that, that tells that other person. You know what, it’s more about you trying to protect your ass than it is about how it affected your partner.

And some people don’t want to face it because they know, let’s face it, the pain may cause their partner and it makes us feel terrible. You know, we see that pain and we try to get away from it. And it makes it so you have to be able to stand your ground and sort of own the pain you cost. And that’s part of your consequence, if you will.

Céline Remy 20:34
Well, that’s huge. So I mean, I put Kevin on the spotlight because I know that in your younger years, you were in a relationship and actually your girlfriend cheated on you.

Kevin Anthony 20:48
It probably happened to most people…

Céline Remy 20:52
Well, it has never happened to me? I’ve never cheated or been cheated on? As far as I know.

Greg Dudzinski 20:57
Exactly. But that’s all that matters that you don’t know.

Céline Remy 21:03
That’s, that’s accurate because I can handle a lot. And I like things to have integrity and straightforward. So yeah.

Greg Dudzinski 21:11
That’s great.

Céline Remy 21:12
I wanted to put Kevin on the spotlight there because I know oftentimes you like okay, so she cheated, right? So it’s like the opposite one of those myths that on the men cheat and I’m like, hey, by the way, men cheat with women. So there should be any like an equal number, right? If you enter a sexual You are cheating with a woman. So the same amount of men and women involved in the equation, in my opinion, anyway, what I loved in your story, and feel free to share whatever you want, Kevin.

Céline Remy 21:39
But rather than breaking up and being like, this, is it you had a totally different reaction? Would you like to share this with our audience?

Kevin Anthony 21:47
Sure. They know everything else about our sex life. So why not my past relationship? Okay, yeah. So so I was in my late 20s, just almost 30 actually, I think

Greg Dudzinski 22:02
So what two years ago?

Kevin Anthony 22:03
I wish…

Greg Dudzinski 22:09
I am not going to tell you how old I am. Yeah, what happened Kevin?

Kevin Anthony 22:17
So yeah, I was just about 30. And I had moved to where we currently live, which is San Diego. And before I moved, I was dating a girl, but she was still in school. So she couldn’t come right away. She had to finish up some school stuff. Then when she did, she came with me. I had already been here for about four or five months, I’d already started meeting people and getting involved with stuff that was happening locally. And I was really big into mountain biking.

Kevin Anthony 22:52
So I was like out mountain biking with, with some friends actually ended up being a protein and, and a bunch of other stuff. So when she came, she didn’t know anybody. Right was inside a lot of this stuff. I realized after the fact, but she didn’t really know anybody. I was busy with work and training. And I realized after the fact that she was kind of lonely. So how I figured out that she cheated was the part of this might sound kind of bad. But I noticed that she was distancing herself. And I noticed that we didn’t have the same closeness anymore and that something was off.

Kevin Anthony 23:28
And I asked her about it. But as usual, people are like, Oh, that’s all fine, and blah, blah, blah. And one day, I was just like, No, I know, something is off. She had a journal that she used to keep next to her bed all the time. So I picked it up, and I read it. And she had a whole thing right in there just laying out the whole cheating experience.

Greg Dudzinski 23:47
Oh, that’s such aterrible thing because he went through the journal. Yeah,

Greg Dudzinski 23:53
Yeah, it’s one of those things, you know, it’s, you know, is it one of those things? I tell people, you know, what’s the difference between a hero and a fool is the outcome, right? So, you know, that type of thing I will do to you when you found that outcome?

Kevin Anthony 24:11
Well, obviously, I was hurt, right? And, and I was upset about it. And at the same time, I really had to stop and think how like, she wasn’t home, of course, when I read this, so I had time to think about what my reaction was going to be. So like, how am I going to handle this situation? After the initial sort of shock of it wore off, I thought, Okay, well, how do I feel about this individual? I was like, you know, I genuinely love her, how would I feel if she wasn’t in my life anymore? And I was like, I don’t actually want that. You know?

Kevin Anthony 24:46
And so I thought: “I can be super pissed off, and I can confront her with it and break up with her”, whatever, you know, people do. You cheated on me, that’s it get out, you know, that kind of thing? Or I could say, Why? Okay, why, like, what, what, what happened? What did I do wrong? Or what? What’s going on? You know, and so I decided to go that approach.  I just asked her about it. And, you know, we talked about it quite a bit. I really just turned out that, she was lonely. She was bored, she didn’t know anybody.

Kevin Anthony 25:18
She’s in the city all by herself. I wasn’t around enough. So I realized at that moment that it was probably just as much my fault because I wasn’t giving her the attention that she really needed. We talked about it and said, Okay, we’ll do we want to stay together, or do we want to break up? And in that moment, we decided, let’s stay together and see if we can make it work. We did, we actually were together for several years after that. And as far as I know, there was never any cheating episodes after that. But so yeah, that was my experience.

Greg Dudzinski 25:53
That’s great. Now, thanks for sharing. And I, as I talked about going back to when I said, you have to know what cost it some people don’t know. And now you look at Okay, what do we have to work with? But and I want people and I get I’ve gotten attacked, verbally attacked in my office. Before I look at what do you think your role just like you did? And I give people what did I do to cause you to want to cheat? Right? And some people Oh, my god, you’re blaming me, Greg, cuz he stuck his dick in some, you know, whatever.

Greg Dudzinski 26:25
And I tell people, I’m not, again, that doesn’t excuse or condone, and I’m looking at what was going on, you know, were you making each other feel love, respected desire, appreciated apartment, and you know what was going on. Because, you know, you need to be a team on this. And if you are not willing to own maybe your role in it, it’s going to make it even more difficult because you have people that with, you know, affairs and cheating. They want to hold that person hostage and a prisoner for the rest of their life or relationship I never recommend now, you know, and you look at some people, they just want to, okay, you said you’re sorry, it’s done and over with.

Greg Dudzinski 27:06
And like nothing happened. I don’t ever recommend neck, I tell people and I get a call four or five months later from those people. One session over great, everything’s fine, Greg, thank you. And four or five months later, I get a phone call, Greg are still having issues. Because you haven’t dealt with that you bury your head in the sand, you need to get all that hurt and resentment and all that pain now. And also, you know, all your expectations, growing old together, retirement, raising grandkids, going trips, whatever it all gets, like I said, shattered and that needs to be addressed. If you pretend everything’s fine, now, it’s gonna bite you in the ass.

Céline Remy 27:47
So I love that because it kind of answered the next question that I’ve wanted to know, which is, you know, what’s people’s biggest mistake when dealing with an affair? And I think like what you mentioned that that burying your head in the sand pretending it didn’t exist is probably one of them. Is there something else that you can see as one of the biggest mistake that people make when dealing with an affair?

Greg Dudzinski 28:11
There are a lot of mistakes I see. Because it’s so hard because you know, you’re devastated, you’re hurt, your world just got thrown, you know, inside out upside down. And I give Kevin a lot of props because that’s what I advise, don’t do anything. Don’t do it. Because a lot of people are very impulsive, though. They’ll try to go, you know, attack the other woman or attack the guy, you know, that the person had the affair with I’m like, if it wasn’t for them, maybe it’d be somebody else. So you have to look inside your relationship.

Greg Dudzinski 28:43
Some people are very impulsive, the move out of the house. So file divorce papers, they’ll tell everybody, they’ll blast it on social media. Um, don’t go and cheat again. You know, they’ll cheat out of revenge and I get phone calls in you know, I hear it in her voice. I said, Oh, I cheated because my husband or my wife cheated. I said that didn’t feel that good. They just don’t know me from anybody. And they’ll start bawling on the phone right away. As I said, because you slowed yourself down, didn’t you? So number one thing I tell people don’t do anything impulsive.

Greg Dudzinski 29:19
And it’s so difficult because you’re in pain, you’re hurt. The anger covers up the pain and hurt. But I tell people to take a breath. And Kevin what he did was awesome. But we’re human. Nothing’s, it’s not easy. You need to not shout out to the world, you need to get a grip and look at what’s going on. But again, it’s so not easy. Now if the other person Oh, get over it, I did it and they start blaming the person for their actions. It’ll make it worse. So number one, I tell people to try not to be impulsive. Try to get a grip and look at you know what, number one, what was going on net cost. But it’s so not easy, as you both know.

Céline Remy 30:02
So I love that. So now, let’s get into what’s the first step to rebuild the trust you. Let’s say you were able to hold back. You’re okay, you’re where there was enough there. You weren’t too impulsive. And you’re like, Okay, now what? What’s that first step? Of course, obviously give Greg a call and just like to get some help. Yeah, but otherwise, also what are the other

Greg Dudzinski 30:25
Give me a call, text me, email me.

Greg Dudzinski 30:31
The step we have to look at number one, of course, we have to look at once, if you know what cost it and everything else, right, let’s face it. Number one is rebuilding the trust that the person that did to be trained, they need to know how much pain was caused by their partner. And they might think I tell people, I don’t know if you can see me, I tell people that maybe you think their pain out of one to 10 is that maybe a five, and it said a 12.

You know you need to be able to get in touch with your partners’ pain, how devastating it is and trying to be there. And they might push you away. They don’t want to because let’s face it, they can’t trust you anymore.

Greg Dudzinski 31:11
But the more consistent you are with that, the easier it can be. So number one, you need to look at what is needed, though, rebuild the trust set possible. Going through, you know, see your phone, email addresses all that aspect, you know, passwords, all that stuff. Some people even want FaceTime. You know that you’re Oh, you’re going to the store, you told me that before when you’re being in him or being in her. I want to prove that you are where you say you’re going to be and we all know about, you know, apps on phone, what I location finders or whatever, that type of aspect. So everybody is different and what they need.

Greg Dudzinski 31:52
And that’s the first step we look at what do you need to rebuild that trust, and I’m huge on Amazon, and it sounds weird coming from me. But I’m huge on emotions and feelings. You have to go after and understand the pain that that person is in. You need to own what you did, and that you’re willing to earn that trust back. And if you don’t want to be true, right? You gotta do they kiss and harass, that type of thing. It’s not about kissing ass. It’s about, you know what, showing that you actually care and you want to make this work and you’re willing to do that. That doesn’t mean you are allowing yourself to be disrespected. No, there’s a big difference.

Greg Dudzinski 32:33
So you need number one, you have to look at what your partner needs to rebuild that trust. And to be honest with you, a lot of times, they don’t know, because they’re so distraught and everything they really don’t know. And that’s something that will work on, you know, in the sessions, you know, right away and looking at what that needs to be done.

Céline Remy 32:52
That’s awesome. I love it. So yeah, it’s true, you’re right, when people are in the emotional reactivity of it, they can’t seem to be able to find help. I think that’s when people like you, that come in handy in terms of like helping being that middle person, I feel the same way when I work with people around the sexual issue. And I’m like, I just help them hear each other, and see each other and then feel the love again. Because we not emotionally involved in it, it’s so much easier for us because we can take a step back and then bring them close again.

Greg Dudzinski 33:25
It’s not easy Céline as you know, because you know the person that you trusted, that you love, you know, hurt you destroyed you. And it’s difficult because now you still love them. But you don’t want that love, you’re pushing it away because you don’t want to get crushed again. So someone’s trying to make a men’s say the betrayers, trying to do what they want, and you don’t want it. And I tell people, it takes time. They have to, you have to have patience and understand, you know what, you hurt them, you, you know, totally ripped their world apart.

Greg Dudzinski 33:56
And look at you know, you have to be patient, you have to look at that person and don’t want to love from you again, because they don’t trust it. Number one, number two, they don’t want to play the fool and get hurt again, oh, you know, I accept you trust me again, you do this again. So like I said, it’s it’s very difficult. And there’s a lot of stops a lot of depth to what I should say in the steps needed. And every couple is different.

Greg Dudzinski 34:20
And every individual is different and what they need. And I know there’s you know, a lot of books out there about getting through it. But everybody’s different. You have to do a very individualized approach to it. To try to make it work and try to heal that trust and get that love kicking up again.

Céline Remy 34:40
I have one more question before we wrap up this episode. I know we’re gonna go a little over but is’ so exciting and I don’t want it to stop.

Kevin Anthony 34:47
There might be one more after that too. Great conversation.

Céline Remy 34:52
Oh, my goodness, we have so much Greg. Okay. So when I when we were preparing for this episode, I was looking at different things. I’m like, you know, some people say that cheating is natural. And, and what I’ve noticed too, is that it’s glorified in movies. I was just watching a movie the other week. And again, it’s like, it’s kind of like this glorified thing, this badge of honor and stuff.

Greg Dudzinski 35:14
Romanticized right. Yes. erotic, romanticize the passion.

Céline Remy 35:18
So I was like, what’s your take on that? I was just super curious?

Greg Dudzinski 35:24
I wasn’t expecting that one.

Greg Dudzinski 35:27
Again, you know, I wasn’t expecting that all answer it. Um, a lot of people you know, in the movies, it’s romanticized. And everybody, you know, it’s sort of flipped the script. I don’t know. I don’t want to plug it. Whatever. Have you seen up in the air with George Clooney? And now? Oh, damn. It’s I don’t watch it. Do you know what I mean? they flip it flips agenda roll switch. And you don’t know it. I don’t want to give it away. But it’s ironic how you know, talking about all men cheat women. It’s ironic. So watch it, you’ll get the meaning of it.

Greg Dudzinski 36:00
But the romanticized of it, people don’t understand, you know, the romantic, but it also you talked to a lot of people that have cheated trying to hide it. The reality of it is it’s a lot of stress, trying to hide it, trying to keep it a secret from everybody else. And I tell people, yeah, it’s, it’s in songs, it’s in music. It’s in movies. It’s, you know, music videos, podcasts all over the place, about romanticizing all the thrill of it the passion.

Oh, it was great, but the reality of it is, and that’s what I teach people, it’s a lot of stress and you have a lot of people that come out oh my god, Greg, I’m, it’s so it’s a ton of weight off me because I don’t have to hide it anymore. I don’t have to try to pretend and sneak and lie.

Greg Dudzinski 36:49
The reality is the damage it creates to everybody. It’s not romanticized people okay? That’s just a reality. And I’m going to be honest with you know, the most be saw this stuff, but you have to look at the you know, how much work it takes and how much just pain that’s involved only within yourself, if you are cheating, but also devastation, it affects your partner, and family dynamics, and not only family dynamics, I’m talking extended family, friends, everything else.

Greg Dudzinski 37:20
And like I said, I don’t want a Ferris or anything to be broadcasted. But a lot of people are hurting and they play the victim role. Look at me, I got cheated on. And it just, it just wreaks havoc. It’s a wave, a tidal wave if you will. Does that answer your question? Totally, totally.

Kevin Anthony 37:38
Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Dudzinski 37:40
I’m humbled.

Céline Remy 37:43
I thought it was great. It reminded me of the episode on sexual fantasies, myths versus reality that we did where it’s like, we had this erotic author and a lot of the time it sounds so much better in your head when you read the erotic novel than when it really happens. And that’s what she says she’s like, in the book, we don’t think about the positions or the fact that the ropes hurt or whatever, or that this or that because you just focus on that romantic or passionate aspect. But we have to understand it’s not reality, per se it’s a created scenario to make you feel a certain way but the real life is not going to work that way.

Greg Dudzinski 38:24
You have to look at the consequences is like you know, not to get off on a tangent about sharing fantasies and part of a Ferris could be a fantasy, right? And, you know, get not life and escape all this stuff, your ego being propped, but I tell people to, you know, all about sharing fantasies, but there’s a danger in sharing fantasies, right? That doesn’t mean you want to act out on you might just want to share your fantasy but what if you share fantasy and your partner goes, ooh, you can’t ever take that back. Do you get me?

So you have to look at that consequence. Are they going to look at you a certain way? Oh, no, we know each other. Don’t be fine. Dangerous? For sure. I know you wanted to say something to Well,

Kevin Anthony 39:08
I got a whole bunch more questions but we are running out of time. So what I would like to do is just give you an opportunity to any last advice that you have for the listeners who might be going through this or have gone through it before.

Greg Dudzinski 39:21
Number one people Thanks, Kevin. Number one it’s gut-wrenching. It’s like I said it’s earth-shattering it’s an understatement number one is tried to breathe Get a hold of yourself and look at you know, if you are the one that was betrayed, look at maybe what your role in you know, in that situation was and so many people it could be you know, all the attention goes to the kids and the other one feels ignored. You know, maybe not desire tired all the time to have sex all I get it real life, right? But look at your role, but you have to look at again, what caused it.

Greg Dudzinski 39:58
You know what, there has to be genuine remorse and guilt for your actions. If you are the betrayer and look at you know what is needed to earn that trust back, not what you need. But what your partner needs to build that trust back. What you think you have to do might be totally opposite. What is needed by your partner, okay, and then a commitment not to do it again and to work on maybe what created that mess, to begin with, thing try to get reconnected if possible in a relationship or marriage. Mm hmm.

Kevin Anthony 40:28
Yeah, absolutely. And if you need help with it, by all means, reach out to somebody like Greg.

Céline Remy 40:34
So I know that Greg has a free ebook for you all listening. It’s the relationship guide tools to ignite love and intimacy. Because Hey, if you have love and intimacy, you don’t need to cheat. So check it out. We have the link in the show notes and on the main page, so he’s offering you this free gift free ebook, check it out. And then Greg, please let our audience know how they can find you how they can work with you and anything else that you can support them with.

Greg Dudzinski 41:00
Oh, thank you so much, you to my website. It’s theartofrelationships.org. Check me out there. I’m on Facebook under Detroit’s Love Guru. Um, I do a show as well. The Art of relationship show. Every well. It’s mostly every Tuesday and Thursday at 12 noon Eastern time. I do it live. So I trip over my tongue. No edits. No, this is me. So I take chats. I take calls to I have to set that up. That’s another option. join in. And I’m going to now offer you I would love to have you two on are you okay doing it live,

Kevin Anthony 41:42
Totally?

Céline Remy 41:42
Oh, yeah.

Greg Dudzinski 41:43
I would love to have you guys on? Um, I would I know it’s early. It’s only 9 am where you guys are at. But I would love to have you guys on an episode or two. I’m all about trying to help. And not only that work with good people, funny people, knowledgeable people. It helps more people out there. I would love to have you guys on.

Kevin Anthony 42:04
Awesome.

Céline Remy 42:05
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for the invite. So

Greg Dudzinski 42:07
well, thank you. I’m sure yeah, I would love to work that out after.

Kevin Anthony 42:10
Exactly. Well, Greg, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really enjoyed the conversation.

Céline Remy 42:17
Yes, and I hope it was helpful. Check out the links, visit Greg’s website. And we will see you all next week.

Greg Dudzinski 42:25
Thank you so much peace.

Kevin Anthony 42:27
All right, everybody. That’s all the time we have for this episode. And we will see you next week. We hope you liked this episode of the love lab podcast. If you enjoyed this show, leave a comment and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 42:44
And if you want more we have an entire digital library with the best sex tips and Relationship Advice at Celine Remy .com. That’s kevinanthonycoaching.com So join us in the sex vault to continue this adventure.

Kevin Anthony 43:01
Thanks for listening,

Céline Remy 43:02
And remember, you’re amazing