Kevin Anthony 0:00
Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex, whether you’re a man or woman, single or a couple, this is the show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex of your life.

Kevin Anthony 0:23
All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is episode 378 and it is titled, Zeke and Terry share how they went from divorcing to rebooting their marriage. So in this episode, what we’re going to be talking about is we’re going to have guests on, obviously, Zeke and Terry, who I’ll introduce in a moment. They’re going to share their story about life, how they got together, you know, how they how they did relationship, where they got off track, you know, what the point they got to, where they were like, I think it’s time to call this over, and then how they got it back on track and are still together today. So I would like, I would like you listeners to get from this. I want you to see, you know, the places where you go, Oh, wow, I’m doing something similar to that, or we’re in a similar place, or that’s how I got to where we are. And I also want you to realize that there is hope. And I think throughout the course of this episode, you’ll start to get that you’ll see where they were at, you’ll see where they’re at now. And I think it’ll be a great tale on how you can really change things, no matter how far gone it may seem. So that’s what we’re going to talk about today.

Kevin Anthony 1:45
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Kevin Anthony 3:07
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Kevin Anthony 4:16
One last thing I want to share with you. I’ve been sharing I got t-shirts, by the way. Also, check this out. More orgasms, less wars. We got the women’s version. We got the men’s version. You can find those on my website. Also, just a fun little project. I did that quote actually came from a guest that I had on this show, and I said, Oh my God, that’s great. I’m going to make that a T-shirt.

Kevin Anthony 4:42
All right, my guests today are Zeke and Terry Mead, and they are midlife empty nesters, proving that some of life’s best adventures begin after 50. After nearly 25 years of marriage in the middle of the COVID pandemic, they decided to get divorced. First, but then they didn’t. They accidentally rebooted their relationship and embarked on a new set of adventures, embracing their differences and challenging themselves to grow individually and as a couple on a daily basis while we while they couldn’t be more different, they have a long history, a solid foundation and a steadfast commitment to making their relationship and new business work as they travel and explore the world through authentic storytelling and honest experiences, they inspire couples to embrace midlife adventures and the ongoing work of building stronger relationships. Welcome to the show. Zeke and Terry,

Zeke Mead 5:37
Thanks for having us. Can we go back to the blow job class?

Terri Mead 5:48
Wow, that’s, that’s how we’re gonna start this, huh?

Zeke Mead 5:50
I wanted to catch everybody’s attention.

Kevin Anthony 5:55
Well, like I said, I like to provide something for everybody. I never want, I never want either side to feel like the responsibility of showing up in the bedroom is just theirs. It is a co-creation.

Terri Mead 6:10
Otherwise, it’s a solo adventure.

Kevin Anthony 6:16
That’s right. All right, so we got a story that we need to tell here, and your story starts way, way back. And so that’s where I really want to start, way back in the beginning. You told me in the pre-interview that you’ve known each other since you were 10. Tell the audience a little bit about your background and how you ended up getting together.

Zeke Mead 6:40
Sure, so usually Terry starts this off, and I just want to clarify the point there. I knew Terry when we were 10. I don’t think Terry saw me anywhere in the world. Maybe when we were 12 or 13, and we got to junior high. But at 10, we went to different elementary schools in the same little town over in the East Bay, here in the Bay Area, and once a month, the old gate program, gifted and talented, and I think I must have somehow cheated my way in that test, because that’s not part of my skill set at all. But they picked a couple of kids from each school, and we’d all go, do I remember whale watching or some computer programming? Yeah. So there was something that once a month, they bring all the kids together, and that’s where I saw her.

Terri Mead 7:26
And my identical twin sister.

Zeke Mead 7:27
Do I know which one I saw then now? No, but I figured it out. Terry probably didn’t know me from anything until two years later, when we were at the same middle school, and then we got to become…

Terri Mead 7:27
Is this where I get to pick up on the story? Yeah, because usually I interrupt and correct him, but you are 100% right. So yes, we met when we were 10. We ended up going to the same junior high, and I remember we met in seventh or eighth grade. And we’re going to give you the TLDR on this story, because it’s we are now 55 so 45 years is a lot of years to go through, but we went together for about six weeks in middle school, junior high, and I dumped him after six weeks. Now, I remember us kissing for the first time in a particular place on campus, and he remembers a different place. And you always say that, who are you going to believe, right?

Zeke Mead 8:24
So, if you have someone with a data set of one versus someone with a data set of more than one, who are you going to believe? Who knows what that data set is? So I have the one data set,

Terri Mead 8:35
Okay, so maybe I misremembered; I could have mixed you up with somebody else. Then we went to high school together, and we were really good friends through high school; he went off to Chico State. I went to Fresno State, and my twin sister actually went to Chico State as well. So I think there was one time when I was visiting, we might have seen each other, but nothing happened. But when we were 20, his parents threw their annual Christmas party back in the Bay Area, and I went to it, and we hooked up again, and we were together for a very short period of time. The story’s better if I say that I dumped him, but I was back in the Bay Area. He was up in Chico, and long distance just didn’t work. He was a starving college student. I was already working and going to school, and it just didn’t work out. So we continued to be friends.

Terri Mead 9:23
Fast forward to the time we were 24, I had just gotten out of a long-term relationship, and he saw his opportunity and decided to swoop in, try to woo me with beach trips and erotic poetry, and my voicemail. But I just wasn’t really ready for another relationship. I’d been in a relationship with someone I’m 10 years older. Thought it was going somewhere, and I just wanted to play, so I dumped him again. So that’s three times, but who’s counting? It’s not over yet. So then, when I was 25, I threw myself a birthday party and invited Zeke because we were friends, and we just happened to have a weekend off to go skiing. So we went skiing with some friends. Everybody else left, we’re at the cabin, drank a little bit of wine, maybe a lot of wine, sat in front of the fire, and we both just said, Let’s do this one more time. And either our friendship is over because we can’t keep doing this. We’ve been doing this for too long, or we’re going to get married. And 14 months later, we were married.

Kevin Anthony 10:28
The reason I really wanted to start there is because I wanted people to see, you know, when two people get together and there are a ton of differences, and it seems like it’s not working out, sometimes there’s the assumption that, well, you guys didn’t get to know each other enough beforehand, or you’ll hear that, well, you rushed into it, you know, and then you didn’t take the time. And so I just know a little bit about your story from the beginning, you know, when we talked the first time, I wanted people to see that you knew each other for a long time. You had a lot of opportunities to get to know who you were, and I think that’s relevant to the story as it goes on. So okay, now you’re married. How long were you married before you decided to have children?

Terri Mead 11:16
We were We got married at 26, and looking back at that, by the way, you know, anyone I see in getting married around that time, I’m like, you don’t know who you are. It is so incredibly young. We had so much stuff coming into it, but our first child was born when we were 31, and our second one at 34. It took us a year to get pregnant. We started looking into some fertility stuff, running some tests, and then magically, we magically, we know how it happened. But then all of a sudden, I found out I was pregnant. That was really a fun experience. We were canoeing out in the middle of nowhere and camping no bathrooms, and I was having to get up and pee in the middle of the night, and beer didn’t taste good. I’m like, something’s wrong. So I took a pregnancy test and found out that I was pregnant, but when I think, yeah, I think that was….

Zeke Mead 12:11
Yeah. And back to your comment, I would say our experience is that we may have known each other fairly well, but we didn’t really know ourselves, and so how we’re going to move forward with that, and how that works with somebody else. It didn’t matter how long we knew each other and….

Terri Mead 12:32
That and that showed up in problems that we’ll end up talking about, you know, that manifested itself and US declaring divorce at one point, but, yeah. So five years after that, you know, but we got the dog, we bought our house in San Francisco. Then we had the kid, and then we moved down the peninsula, and then we had kid number two. I mean, we followed the prescribed, historical, prescribed, traditional steps that we don’t buy into.

Kevin Anthony 13:01
That’s partly why I’m asking, of course, that question is because, again, there’s one of the things that tends to happen is, you know, people meet each other, the chemicals are flowing. Everything’s great. They rush into getting married. They’re not even married a year before they have kids, right? And so things happen really quickly, and then they start to figure out who each other is, and then they go, Oh, crap, this isn’t working, right? And I just kind of wanted, I want people to basically resonate with your story, because your story is so typical, right? Like you did, like you said, you followed the prescribed way, you know, the sort of American Dream that they tell you, you know, you get married young, you get the house, you get the white picket fence. A couple of years later, come the kids, the dog, you know, the whole thing, and you guys did all of that, and yet, still, there were significant challenges, which we’ll get into in just a moment.

Zeke Mead 13:55
Just to take a step back, there were challenges along the way. It’s not like it was all roses and perfume up until after kids and we were in covid, so….

Terri Mead 14:05
the first our first year of marriage was incredibly hard, and we saw a therapist after the first year. We were just talking about it. It’s like the problems that even we have today really stem from not stem, but showed manifested in that first year, and the therapist that we went to was so incredibly bad that we were like, ooh, we’re not going down that road again for a very long time. And we’re like, we will figure we will figure this out. But all of our stuff, all of our garbage, showed up in that very first year, and we didn’t address it.

Terri Mead 14:37
The other thing, and following, you know, yes, it did look like the traditional steps, but Zeke was in sales, software sales, when we got our banking and software sales, and then he became a police officer, which completely upset the apple cart, because I didn’t really expect to be married to someone who had shift work, you know, four days on four days off. Five days on, three days off, back to back, fives, mandatory overtime, court appearances, all of that stuff completely disrupted what I thought was going to be our flow, especially since we’d agreed when we got married that I was going to be the one who was going to work because I had greater earning potential, and he was going to be the one to stay home with the kids. So we, while it looked on paper like we were setting ourselves up for success and we were following the prescribed way, a couple of things happened within the first five years that really disrupted, that we never adequately addressed.

Kevin Anthony 15:38
Yeah, and, you know, and that’s the thing, right? Life is going to throw disruptive things at you. I mean, it just always does, like Nobody escapes that, right? And some of the questions are, how do you handle it? I’m curious. You said that, within the first year, some of this stuff came up, and you did see that therapist, which was apparently not a very good one, which sort of dissuaded you from seeing therapists for a while. But the question that came to my mind when you shared that was, you know, you made a conscious decision not to address that stuff in that moment, like, what was going on there? Why did you make that decision? Like you went to the therapist. You’re like, she’s not very good and whatever. But then you just said, we’ll just do it on our own. What kind of led to that decision?

Terri Mead 16:20
Well, I think within the so I had seen good therapists before. And basically, you go in and they kind of unpeel the wound, they do a little digging around, and that is excavation. And then by the end of it, they kind of patch it over. And so you leave sore, but you leave complete. You leave without it being raw and exposed. And I remember we went to the therapist, and we were on our way up to Tahoe, and we had stopped, and I basically cried almost the entire way as we were talking. And actually, that terrible experience brought us together, because there’s nothing better than having a common enemy to bring two people close together, at least it worked with my sister, not me. And my sister works, you know, worked with us.

Terri Mead 17:05
And so we were like, Okay, we’re going to figure this out. We’re going to work this out. Because obviously that didn’t work. And so it wasn’t a matter of, we weren’t ignoring it, but it was, it kind of, you know, I kind of, we kind of felt resolute in that, okay, we will, we will stand up, we will deal with this, and we will try to power our way through it. Night, we were 27 we were so naive and thinking that we had any of the skills or resources to adequately address it.

Kevin Anthony 17:31
Yeah, and that was kind of the point, like I wanted people to hear because I know so many people do the exact same thing. They see the early signs, right? They know that they’re struggling, but they consciously choose not to get the help that they need, right? And so I was just curious, one, what your thought process was in that and then, and then, two, just for people to hear, like that’s often the route that most people go. A lot of times, they’ll just go, Well, you know, whatever, it’ll just work itself out, or somehow we’ll get through it. And they don’t actually do a whole lot. Sounds like you guys actually became very resolute to try to solve it.

Kevin Anthony 18:06
The thing is, is that you tried to do it on your own without help, and as you pointed out, you were very young and naive and didn’t possess the skills to really be able to manage it on your own. And I think that’s true for so many people. That’s why it’s so good for them to hear that, right? Because as we get further on in the story, and you start talking about things that did help, right? It’ll make more sense. In other words, what I really want to be able to hear is, if you find yourself in this situation, don’t struggle with it on your own. Don’t, don’t just sit there and say, Well, you know, we’ll figure it out, especially if you’re young like that. Because, trust me, none of us learn how to do this stuff when we’re young, right? And there’s no shame in seeking help from qualified individuals to help you through these challenges in life.

Terri Mead 18:52
And if the first therapist doesn’t work, go find another one. I think that experience was so incredibly painful that I was like, going our own route has to be easier than doing that, because it was so she was just so terrible. And we have, we have been through a series of really bad therapists.

Kevin Anthony 19:11
You know, it’s like anything else. There’s a joke that I love to tell all the time, which is, you know, what do you call the doctor who graduated last in medical school? The doctor, right? In other words, there’s a huge variation right in any field. It doesn’t, it doesn’t matter which one it is, right, you know? So there’s, there’s a lot of great therapists out there, but there’s a lot of terrible ones out there, too. So, to your point, you’re absolutely correct, just like you would with a doctor. If you go to a doctor and you don’t feel like you got a proper opinion. What do you do? You generally go find another doctor and get a second opinion, right? Same thing with your therapist, coach, whatever. Try them on. Find one that works for you. That’s a very important point.

Kevin Anthony 19:54
Okay, so all of these sorts of stresses and things were happening in life that were taken. You sort of go down the road of disconnection. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit more. So you mentioned the fact that you had challenges from the beginning. You had kids, within you know, the first five years of being married, Zeke’s work changed. And you know, shift work is very difficult. Being married to a policeman is also very stressful, because you never know what’s going to happen while he’s out on the job. What other types of things as you went on through the years, led to you feeling more disconnected as a couple?

Terri Mead 20:32
Well, I think the next big one was when our youngest was about three, and our oldest was just, he was going into first grade, and we were looking for a nanny. At that point, I had started my consulting firm, and IT strategy and compliance, and he was still a police officer, and I was essentially a single parent, and I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I mean, he was getting out of the house at 430 in the morning in order to avoid getting held over so that he could pick up the kids by five o’clock, because I was getting the kids up and out, and I wasn’t getting to my client site until nine. And then at four o’clock, I would get a call. I arrested somebody. I’ve got to do the paperwork, you know, can you go pick up the kids?

Terri Mead 21:18
And so then I would have to stop my day at five, go pick up the kids, take them, you know, out to dinner, take them home, bathe, you know, read books, everything. And at nine o’clock, I was getting back on the computer again, to, you know, finish my client work. And so in that time, not only were we not seeing each other, but I was getting incredibly resentful because I was essentially a single parent that I couldn’t and I couldn’t rely on him, and I was having to move things all around. So I think that created a lot of disconnect with his work hours and my consulting and managing the kids. That also created a chasm in terms of we were not being intentional about working on having our own self-care, let alone investing in our relationship. We put the kids first, as a lot of Gen X parents do, because of what we endured from our parents, and I think we swung way too far in that direction, so that created a chasm. So Adam was going into first grade, and we were sitting around and running the numbers and…..

Zeke Mead 22:21
Napkin restaurant for dinner, again, falls right in line with, we don’t have enough time, energy, or whatever to cook dinner at home, so we’re out at a restaurant again.

Terri Mead 22:30
That was actually a date night you and I were out at, it was kind of one of our rare date nights, and, you know, kind of penciled out onto a napkin. It’s like, well, I think it can make it work. And we, you know, he’s like, Okay, I’ll stay home with the kids. I’ll continue to work. And that would open up more hours for more billable hours, so that I could bump up and then cover, because also, childcare is expensive. So that was a lot of it was going there. So I mean, our quality of life, our quality of life with our kids, none of it was checking any of the boxes in terms of the life we wanted to live. So the next disconnect came when we did not sit down and explicitly define the roles of the stay-at-home parent versus the working parent in a patriarchal society that we live in. And then also the way that I was conditioned, you know, as a Gen Xer to have it all be it all, I still carried a majority of the burden of the mental load, the social load. I managed all of our finances.

Terri Mead 23:28
I was then the primary breadwinner, the only breadwinner, and then he was with the kids, and he had a lot of free time. And I was very resentful of his free time and him not taking advantage of it while I’m off busting my ass with zero. I mean, I was playing soccer on Sundays, and that was my only free time, no girls’ weekends, no girls’ trips. I didn’t spend a lot of time with friends. I mean, it was because I was like, I chose to have kids, therefore I need to spend time with my kids, and we spent time as a family, and so that created a big chasm. And I mean, how much further? I mean, are we at the Grand Canyon? All these things adding up, and the one thing that we had was this foundation, and we had a commitment, a blind commitment.

Kevin Anthony 24:21
So let me pause you there for a moment, because you said some things that I think are really important that we need to sort of backtrack on. One of them is this idea that you really put your kids ahead of everything, and this is something that so we’re all Gen Xers here, we can talk about this. This is something that really started with the Gen Xers, and honestly, has continued on with all of the younger generations as well. Now, when we were growing up, it was pretty much that kids should be seen and not heard, like Be quiet. You know, as long as you’re not poking an eye out or something like that, just don’t bother us, kind of a thing we. We were the latchkey kids, right? So most of us came home to an empty house after school, right? We had the key. We just let ourselves in, made ourselves lunch, right?

Kevin Anthony 25:10
There were some positives to that. We learned self-reliance. We are far more capable than any generation that has ever come after us. But there were some downsides to it as well, right? We didn’t necessarily get the emotional care that we were seeking and needing, but the response to that is exactly what you said, which is, when you decided to have kids, you said, I’m going to do it differently. And here’s one of the biggest mistakes that I see all couples these days make: they put their kids as an absolute number one priority over everything, to the detriment of the relationship. And the problem with that is is the relationship is the container that creates the space for raising healthy children. And when the container is not maintained, it falls apart. When parents get divorced, the children suffer.

Kevin Anthony 26:06
So while parents think they’re doing the right thing for their kids by always putting them first and always prioritizing them, in the end, they’re actually hurting their kids, because the relationship suffers, even if they don’t get divorced, the children are not modeled in the home. What a loving, caring, healthy, successful relationship is. And so then they learn dysfunctional relating, and they probably, given the divorce rates that we have in this country, also end up living in a broken home.

Kevin Anthony 26:36
So I just wanted to sort of point that out, because it’s a mistake that I see so many couples make, and I really wish people would see it from the point of view that, you know, I’m not saying you have to do what our parents did, you know, seen and not heard. What I’m simply saying is you need to find a balance. And there are times when you’ll have to prioritize the relationship over the kids, just like there are times where you’ll have to prioritize the kids over the relationship, but over time, it should roughly balance out as best as you can make it. So that’s one point that you mentioned that I really wanted to reiterate.

Terri Mead 27:12
We apologize to our kids, every day feels like and we are because they’re pissed because now they’re seeing us modeling a good relationship. And they’re like, Where was that? Why are we not, you know, why didn’t we see that? And we’re like, we are so sorry. And here’s what we’re doing differently. And we hope that now we can kind of fix, you know, Band Aid, provide the plaster, or the duct tape, or MacGyver the situation, so that you have something better moving forward. They’re 21 and 24.

Kevin Anthony 27:43
You know, I coach a lot of people, and the majority of the issues that we deal with in any coaching session stem from childhood. This is true of any therapy session as well, from attachment styles to all that kind of stuff forms very early. And one of the things that you always have to get to when you’re working with somebody about this is you have to get them to the point where they realize that their parents were just humans and were just doing the best that they could with the knowledge and skills and resources that they had at the time. Right? So what I would say to your children, if I were speaking to them, is, I would say, holding resentment over, Oh, great. Now you have a great relationship. What about then? I would say, look, they were doing the best they could at the time, and nobody taught them they had to figure it out on their own, and thankfully, hey, be grateful that they figured it out now, and not well.

Terri Mead 28:40
I’m hoping their therapists tell them because they’re both in therapy.

Kevin Anthony 28:44
I hope their therapist is telling them that also, because they should be anyway. I am also sharing that with you because you know you don’t have to spend the rest of your life apologizing to them.

Terri Mead 28:55
Oh no. It’s just because it’s become a family joke. It isn’t, yes, there are moments of guilt, but it has just become a family joke, and it is actually emblematic of just really how healthy our relationships are with our kids as a result of, you know, admitting how human we are, admitting it was like, Well, yeah, screwed that up. Sorry. You know, what can I do to make this better? And, you know, owning up to it, and then being able to try to contribute to a solution, resolution, repair, rather than blame.

Zeke Mead 29:27
Can you give me a gift card to the blow job class? I’m just gonna give it to them, and then they can.

Kevin Anthony 29:38
I’ll see what I can do for you.

Terri Mead 29:42
That’s not gonna work with either of our kids.

Zeke Mead 29:44
You know, it’s what we can offer.

Terri Mead 29:48
How long have you been sitting on that?

Kevin Anthony 29:52
All right, so there were some other things that you shared that I thought were interesting, too, one of which is you were sharing. Because you guys had a different work dynamic than most people that that was creating resentment, right? So you were feeling like you didn’t get to do the girl type, you know, outings and things like that. You were busy all the time, and he had a lot more free time. And so two things about that, one that is common in both directions, so often men will will feel that way too, like, Man, I’m over here busting my butt, and then the second I come home and she wants me to spend the whole weekend with the kids and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so you were just basically experiencing what a lot of men experience now.

Terri Mead 30:33
I would disagree, because I know a lot of stay-at-home moms, and during the day, they were arranging playdates, or they were, I mean, you were in the class, in the classroom, but or with other volunteer stuff, or they are super active, and a lot more so. And Z was very good, and I’m saying he was very good about protecting his time so that he did not give all of that away. So yes, the power dynamic, it was a little bit different on that, but I he was not doing as much as all of the stay at home moms that I knew were doing, who at the end of the day had worked just as hard as the guys who were coming home and going but I’ve been at the office, you’ve been at home, the house is a mess. What the hell have you been doing all day long? So I think the dynamics are a little different, right?

Kevin Anthony 31:22
And you didn’t give me a chance to finish that thought. But so that is a lot of what men experience, for sure. And then where I was going with that is it was more so in your case, because of the natural tendencies of how men would do something versus how women do something, how men feel about something versus how women feel about something, right? So, for instance, in this case, what you were just pointing out with the other stay-at-home moms is that women, by nature, are very, very nurturing. They will think of all those little details, and they’ll do all those little things, whereas men not as much, right? We’ll think more big-picture things. The kids will be safe 100% they’ll be fed, they’ll have clothes on their back, all that kind of stuff. But we might not think as much about the little details, because that’s just how we are as me,n and so any couples that are…..

Terri Mead 32:17
I think that’s socialization. I’m not sure it’s nature. I think it’s a nurture. It’s not I think it’s a socialization in a patriarchal society. I do believe that men, if socialized to care about things the way that we women tend to be socialized to care. I think that that would be very, very different.

Kevin Anthony 32:39
You could program some of that in. But there is no denying the fact that nature has programmed us. Because if we get out of modern society and we go back to hunter gatherers, whose job was it to care for the kids, women’s, whose job was it to go hunt, to build, to defend, it was the men’s The thing is, we always look at, you know, the way we operate in society based on our current society, right? And we say, well, because our society is like this, this, this, and this. But there is real science, it’s called epigenetics, where we can see how things have literally been programmed into our DNA. And the thing is, is, if we look at the entirety of human existence, and we say, if you’re watching on the video, I’m holding my hands up, let’s say the entirety of human existence is this big. Our modern society is just this little piece over here. We have not completely overridden all of our DNA with just the last, you know, few 1000 years of, you know, human development. So can we make different choices and different decisions? Yes, but there is definitely some hard-wired programming that’s running underneath the surface that makes us different, that makes us better suited for certain roles.

Kevin Anthony 34:00
So, for instance, for men, you know, we are generally the workers. We’re like, whether we want to admit it or not, we are generally, you know, the mule in the fields like that’s we we work hard, we work, we work, we work. And I’m not saying women don’t work hard. Also, I’m saying is we are just more naturally inclined to do 15 hours a day and not necessarily get resentful. So there are just little differences like that. And I just wanted people who are listening to understand that. Let’s say you do choose to do things reversed, like you guys do. There’s nothing wrong with that, but just know you’re gonna have to put extra attention on it. You’re going to have to do things a little bit differently to make it work for both of you. Now, of course, there’s also the idea that there are relationships that are reverse polarity. So men who are much more in their feminine, women who are more in their masculine, and in those types of roles, tend to fit easier in that reverse role. So. But if you have a man who’s more masculine a woman who’s more feminine, they’ll struggle more to do those reverse roles, and so if they choose that, they’ll need a little bit more work.

Zeke Mead 35:11
Yeah, I was just gonna say that I completely agree with I can’t speak to the generational DNA and all that type of thing, but myself coming into this role, certainly loved my kids. Wanted to do this for them, saw that my job as a police officer was getting in the way of pretty much everything, and I was happy to switch roles. I didn’t know exactly the role I was switching into, and that’s where part of that Terry was talking about, was that we didn’t sit down and identify, Okay, this is how you know this should work, or this is where I need you, from her standpoint, to me, to fill the role that she needed filled for the kids.

Terri Mead 35:53
And setting and setting expectations. And I think from taking a step back from the last thing you talked about, taking a step back and saying anytime that you decide to have children or add something into a relationship, I think, well, even taking a step back, having a conversation about what you are expecting out of your marriage, why you’re going into marriage. There’s a book called The New I do, which I wish I’d read before we got married, because there are like, eight different types of marriages that you or relationships you can go into and how to manage them, whether it’s for companionship or finance or to have kids or, you know, something else, setting those expectations and having really quality conversations about that.

Terri Mead 36:36
And then, when you decide to have kids, talking about that setting expectations, who’s taking on what roles and responsibilities, the duties of managing the container of the relationship, as well as the children and the self. And then, you know, and then, if you take a step further, when someone decides to stay home, or you’re forced, somebody loses their job and stays home in like conscious, intentional conversations about roles, responsibilities, expectations and duties, is really important, regardless of the gender makeup or the role in the relationship.

Terri Mead 37:13
I think that is something that I wish and I we had done very differently, but we were young, and when I talked to younger people in their 20s or 30s who are either, you know, thinking about getting in a relationship, thinking about getting married, thinking about having kids, you know, I or in a relationship, I’m like, Have the conversation so that you are understanding the expectation, the roles and the responsibilities and you are have a sound playing ground set foundation, I guess is the word I’m like, for a solid foundation, because some of those things, you know, the fissures in the foundation, the cracks, come up when you don’t address it. You can’t address everything, but if you at least have the foundation, it makes the other things easier to stay connected over.

Kevin Anthony 38:00
Yes, you’re absolutely right, and you need to have those conversations as best you can. They’re harder to have when you’re younger, and you don’t even realize you’re supposed to have those conversations. But that’s and that’s very similar to what I was trying to say, is like, yes, you need to have those conversations. And I was also pointing out that in your case, those conversations were even more important because of the role reversal, right? That’s the point I was trying to make, is that if anybody chooses to go that path, know that there’s going to be additional challenges there that you may or may not be aware of.

Kevin Anthony 38:35
So we just want people to know that. We want people to know that, you know, okay, we’re going to go down this path. We need to set aside some time. We need to really hashish that we really need to think about the realities of what this might look like, because lots of unexpected things are going to come up. Okay, there’s one other thing that I wanted to talk about before we move into the solutions thing, and that is this is relevant for multiple reasons, especially relevant in your case, when it comes to how you got back on track. But I’m curious, during all of this stuff, especially when the divide was getting bigger, what was your sex life like? Terrible.

Terri Mead 39:17
It was terrible. It was we were disconnected emotionally, our timelines didn’t always work together. We would go through periods where we might have good sex, but we just had challenges, almost from the get go, and the baggage that we brought in, the expectations I came into the relationship very early on, I kind of took on a very male centric mentality where, you know, I if I wasn’t, I mean, I decided this at 16, if I wasn’t going to marry a guy and I wasn’t having a lot of fun, I wasn’t going to stay in the relationship, and I chose to have relationships purely for sex, just. For fun. So when Zeke and I decided to get into a relationship at 25, and I was having to combine sex and love together, I did not do that successfully.

Terri Mead 40:10
I didn’t see how I could successfully combine the two together. One was sheer pleasure, a tool, and the other was something that was a lot more emotional, you know, and I didn’t ever really combine those really well together. And on the performance side, we had some issues in terms of, you know, I was very orgasmic, but I needed him to last just a little bit longer, and so our timing didn’t work out. It was before we knew about toys. It was before we were comfortable talking to each other, trying different things. Sometimes we would get super lucky and we would have orgasms at the same time, and other times it would be just kind of going through the effort, and then I would just take care of myself some other time on my own. So that did not contribute to a healthy relationship at all, that piece was really missing.

Kevin Anthony 41:04
Was there a point in time where you guys stopped having sex, or did you continue throughout?

Terri Mead 41:09
I think in our 40s,

Zeke Mead 41:10
it was pretty late going back to again, this is knowing yourself, right? And so Terry seemed to know some things about herself and how she worked on that I myself knew probably even less about myself, and so getting into a relationship was probably more of a lack of expectation or a lack of understanding of how much I participate in this relationship and can make different things work out, and how I communicate and how that, you know, works with the results, and how sex is a an ingredient in that cocktail of success. So just to give a perspective as to Terry’s consciousness of the situation and my lack of consciousness, yes, but yes, sex became very infrequent.

Terri Mead 42:00
Yeah, in our 40s, and I think when things started getting really shaky with us in my early 40s, I think I started the menopause transition completely unbeknownst to me. And it was only after researching for my book, Piloting Your Life, that I learned that when you start perimenopause, your body kind of goes through this, like, this last hurrah, which, so you’ve got this little, this increase in hormones. It’s like, if you want to have a baby, this is your going out of sale, going out of business, sale. This is your opportunity. So I think we had, like, a surge, and I was very sexually motivated, and so we had, I think, some decent sex, but that also created a problem, because I’m like, if I’m not having good sex here, I’m going to go look for it elsewhere. And so then that did not go over well. And that was when we were about 4243, and then after about a year that that dropped off. And I think, yeah, that wasn’t it wasn’t good for a couple of years after that.

Kevin Anthony 42:59
So, basically, you kind of struggled with sex throughout most of your relationship, and then at some point in the 40s, it was pretty much just not happening at all. It was very sporadic. Yeah, very, very typical. Again, I hear that story from so many couples, over and over again, that this is sort of the pattern or the path that they follow. Now, in your case, I think it’s even more relevant, because in just a moment, we’re going to talk about how you actually got back on track. And it’s interesting. It is a very different way from how most people end up getting back on track. So we’re going to talk about that when we come back. I’m way past, actually, when I was going to do the mid-show break. So let me just pause for a brief word.

Kevin Anthony 43:46
Are you a couple? Are your relationship and sex life where you want them to be? Are there changes you would like to make? But just don’t know how, maybe you think there is nothing that can be done if you’re not 100% happy with where your relationship or sex life is, then get help today and change your life. Go to https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/couples/ and schedule a strategy call with me today so we can map out a strategy to get you where you want to be so you can have it all your way. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/couples/. I work with people experiencing exactly what you two are talking about today all the time. This is one of my specialties is helping people get back on track. Hopefully, they come to me before they get to the point that you guys got to. But even if you’re at that point and you want to give it one last try, it is possible.

Kevin Anthony 44:39
So that brings me to how you guys got back on track. So you at this point, you know the chasm is wide, it’s deep, the sex isn’t happening. You’ve decided to separate. So from that point, how did you all of a sudden decide? Not to separate. What made you decide to, you know, maybe give it another shot?

Terri Mead 45:05
So in January of 2021, so middle of the pandemic, we were shut down in the in the Bay Area, and our son was back in San Diego going to school, and our youngest was junior in high school, senior in high school, yeah, but everybody was home for a weekend for some for some reason, and Zeke and our youngest had been up in Tahoe, and they came and they came back, and I was in the bathtub, and I remember Zeke coming in, and for about 10 years, we had been kind of dancing around getting divorced. One of us would say, Okay, I’m ready. This is done, and the other one would say, No, no, let’s work on it.

Terri Mead 45:45
So for about 10 years, we were like, back and forth, and there was just, like a nasty exchange of texts, and he came in and he goes, I think we’re done. And I said, Yeah, I think we’re done. And I was just kind of how we decided, just like, Okay, let’s find a way to separate and get divorced. We told the kids at dinner, and the kids were like, It’s about time. We know that you haven’t been happy. I mean, it was just, you know, we were still, you know, we still on the outside, look like the perfect family, but you know, obviously, you know, we would be out. People probably were totally surprised, because it was like Zeke and Terry, they are, you know, they look like that couple. And so that was on a Sunday, our son went back down to San Diego for school, and I was devastated. And I process things really, really quickly and usually, and I can silver lining in anything but Monday. I mean, I was like, devastated. Zeke moved into Adam’s room, and, you know, we just started talking about what this was going to look like.

Terri Mead 46:45
And I’d be here in the office, and I’d go in, and I go sobbing to him, and he would just put his arms around me, and I’m like, I just, I just, I just don’t know what this is going to look like. I don’t know how this is going to work. I mean, I just felt like my whole future was crumbling in terms of what I thought my future was going to be, which was, you know, with Zeke, we were going to grow old together, you know, maybe we’d have grandkids or not, we don’t care. But it was just like, I couldn’t imagine him not in my life, because he’d been in my life for so long, and he was up, he was, you were more stoic about it. Tuesday rolls around, and I am, like, still devastated. Wednesday rolls around, and I am never, I have never figured not figured something out within that period of time. Thursday rolls around, still devastated, and I go to him. I’m like, who’s going to be my emergency contact? And he’s like, I’ll be your emergency contact.

Terri Mead 47:35
So every day, we were actually having dinner together, and we were sitting on the couch intentionally together, watching something while our youngest was in the bedroom. Friday, I start. I just was, like, feeling a little bit better, and we had talked about buying another house on the street. We had talked about, you know, ways that we could still remain in each other’s lives without disrupting the kids, still continuing to be friends. And Saturday, I woke up, and it was like the sun was coming out. I drove my car to play tennis. I had some great music on, and I felt like the color came back into me, like I’d been gray for about 10 years. And I was like, I want to have sex. I want to have really good sex, but it’s COVID. We’re not going to date. So I did some research after playing tennis and found out that it’s not unusual for separated couples to have sex.

Terri Mead 48:25
So I said to him after dinner, I said What do you think about having sex? And he said, Is that even a good idea? Like, well, I would like to reclaim who I used to be. If I have to, like, get back out there into the world, why don’t we just make it a safe place? I said, after we watch this, I’m gonna go take a bath. I’m gonna crawl into bed naked, if you’d like to join me. Join me. And so he was tentative at first, and he did. And afterwards, it was really fun. There was no baggage, there was no expectation. There were no expectations. There was nothing we could just be ourselves coming together. We It was fun. And I said, tomorrow night. And he goes, okay.

Terri Mead 49:07
And so then every night for, I don’t know, a couple months, we did it, and we started introducing, I mean, I was listening to sex with Emily. I was looking for toys. We brought lube into the equation. Who? Why had Lube not been part of our equation? Oh, my God, magic. And through that, we started we establish vulnerability, because you have to be vulnerable when you’re trying all of these new things. We started to communicate, and we started to date again. We had closed the door on the old relationship, we started working with therapists on our own to establish who we were going to be in the world, and we accidentally rebooted our relationship.

Kevin Anthony 49:50
Yeah, and that is what I love about your story so much, because I said before the last break that the way you rebooted your relationship was different. Different than most people. So most people don’t decide, well, let’s just keep having sex, and then all of a sudden, their relationship gets rebooted, right? If it gets rebooted at all, it’s usually, let’s go to therapy. Let’s separate for a while, until we can, you know, work through our shit or whatever it is, right? So your story is a little bit different, but what it illustrates is the research is really clear on this, couples who have successful or couples who have satisfying and fulfilling sex lives have longer-lasting, more successful relationships. The science is clear on that, if you are connecting as a couple sexually in a way that is mutually beneficial, right?

Kevin Anthony 50:41
Meaning you’re not just going through the motions and doing it because he or she wants to, right? You’re going to have a longer, more successful relationship. And what I think your story really demonstrates so well is that once you got together, you already decided you’re divorced, you’re in separate rooms, you’re unwinding things once you started having sex again, in a way that was fun when you let go. This is another thing you shared. You let go of all the resentment in the baggage. There were no expectations, right? You let go of all that stuff, and you just started connecting physically again. And lo and behold, things start to shift. As you also pointed out, you needed to be more open and vulnerable, right? Because you were trying new things, bringing in toys, right? There was no like, Oh, that’s weird. If we bring this in, or she’s going to think that or that, because you’re like, Well, who cares, right?

Kevin Anthony 51:32
You know, and you just did it, and it had a massive shift in your relationship. Now, I’m not telling the listeners that simply having sex with your partner is going to change everything. What I am telling you is that if you take the time throughout your relationship to prioritize your relationship and to prioritize your sex life and keep that going throughout the course of your relationship, you most likely will not end up in a place where you’ve decided to divorce. And I’m also saying that if you are at a rocky point in your life and you sincerely want to turn it around, this is part of that process. How do we reconnect again? How do we learn to communicate again? How do we learn to be open and vulnerable again? Now, you guys just sort of accidentally stumbled into that, but you stumbled into all the right things.

Terri Mead 52:24
We were dumb at 26, we were dumb at 51.

Zeke Mead 52:29
Well, we were lucky. What it was, the only other perspective I’d put on it is that throughout the separation, it was clear to me that I was always going to have a relationship with her. Our particular kids are still being parented. They’re still going to need our assistance. They’re still going to need us, as, you know, a team of some level. And so the marriage became this other thing became a third thing. It wasn’t part of me or part of her, it was this, this is our relationship. And so I started looking at it, and I read the book, she’s talked about the different types of marriage, or whatever it is, yeah, the new idea, new idea. And I was like, oh, okay, so we can just change the relationship. We don’t need to change the person. We just need to change our relationship through the type of relationship that we have.

Zeke Mead 53:16
And so I still think of ourselves as having been divorced of the old marriage, and now we have a different marriage that we put in place that is amazing and still a work in process. Yeah, but it’s, it was just a different perspective to take on it and put it, you know, the problem is over there. I’ve got my issues that she can’t fix. She has our issues I can’t fix. There’s this thing that we’re both in. We need to change how that works and how that works, and yes, when we started having sex without all those issues, it was a completely different experience. It was a lot of, let’s try this. Let’s try that. I’m curious about this. That didn’t work. I’ve got a cramp. We need to, you know, take a break. We need to reset. Okay, let’s try this again.

Terri Mead 54:02
Yeah, where did you lose the handcuff keys again? No, I’m just kidding, but it was, it was something that we could work on together that was also very individually satisfying. And we were, we were in it. Yeah, I love how you did that. That was so good. I love how that was because we were working on ourselves and not holding the other person responsible for the other person. But we were coming together, and now we are still that way. I mean, it is by no means perfect. I mean, we got into an argument last week. We’re still recovering from but, but this time, I know that it’s, it’s something that we will eventually work through, that we have a trust, we have the communication. We will eventually find a way to find the common ground on that and, you know, and we have an amazing sex life.

Kevin Anthony 54:54
I like that the way you said that, Zeke, which was that, you know, you feel like the old relationship. The relationship is gone, and it’s a whole new one. I think what’s, what’s wonderful about that is, is it leaves all of the baggage and resentment and shit from before behind, and that is actually a very difficult thing for a lot of people to do.

Terri Mead 55:16
We don’t know how that happened. I mean, it really is like this door closed. And if we could tell other people how to do that, I mean, we’d be billionaires. But it was, it is magical how we became I think when we closed the door, we were like, Yep, we’re getting divorced. And it wasn’t. We did not have any intention of doing the work to resurrect it. It was accidental.

Kevin Anthony 55:39
You know, there are different ways to get to that. It’s a mindset shift, is what it is. And there are different ways to get there. That was the way that you got there, which was like, you’re like, we’re done, like, this is it? It’s that part is over, right? For other people, they may not be able to get there that way, but they can get there other ways. The point is, is that it’s possible, right?

Kevin Anthony 55:58
Because the thing is, is a lot of people get to that point and they think there’s no way this can recover. There’s way too much baggage, there’s way too much resentment. We’ve done too much damage already. That may be the case depending on the kind of damage that was done, but in many cases, it’s really a choice, and the choice is to let go of that and start over, or hold on to it, and then continue to suffer, right? And so usually, you know how it goes. It’s like, you’ve got to hit rock bottom before you decide, you know, it’s time to change something. And that’s really where you guys were at. You were at the bottom. Like, that’s it. We’re done, right?

Kevin Anthony 56:36
And that’s at the point where you decided to change it. So we’re pretty much out of time. But I’m curious, because you mentioned that you tried a lot of different things. Of all the things that you did in this sort of accidental reboot, what would you say are the top three things that were most beneficial for you?

Zeke Mead 57:00
I think I already covered it. Be curious, be experimental, try new things without judging yourself or them, and be ready to laugh about it. Because there were some times when we would we would be doing something, and it was like, Okay, I don’t know what they were talking about, but this isn’t working right as well as, and I, I’m this is a nod to and not as a foolproof fix. I used to really enjoy a blow job. That’s not my thing anymore. So it doesn’t matter what class she takes. If it doesn’t work for me anymore, it’s okay.

Terri Mead 57:35
I was good at it. I would just like to point out.

Zeke Mead 57:38
absolutely. But you know what I changed. It doesn’t; that’s not my thing anymore. Okay, so move on. Don’t. Don’t get hung up on what used to work. If you got to move away from it and try something else, then you have to move and go try something.

Terri Mead 57:50
So a couple of different things. I think I learned this from sex with Emily. Foreplay really starts with your last sexual encounter. I think that’s really important, coming in for a lot of us, women, a lot of it’s in our heads. And if we’re disconnected, disconnected, disconnected, and then there’s this demand on us on top of everything else, that’s a demand. I’m just like, No, like you don’t get like everybody else has been demanding. I don’t feel connected to you. That just doesn’t work. So I think that’s key, not feeling threatened by bringing toys into the bedroom, to you know, whether it’s foreplay, whether it’s complete play, as we age, our bodies change, and how we get to orgasm, or how we define pleasure changes, and so being open to that is really important. The other thing is also learning what doesn’t work.

Terri Mead 58:38
And I have to share this story because it’s really hilarious. So we talked about becoming polyamorous and doing a threesome, but it was in the middle of covid, and what we realized with that is neither of us really wanted that because it introduced it exceeded our risk tolerance, whether it was safety, health, emotional or whatnot, but it’s fun to talk about, so that’s still fun fantasy. You don’t always have to execute on them. We did go to a sex club in San Francisco once. Oh, my God, that was a complete failure, but for all the right reasons, it was hilarious. We got our hotel room in San Francisco. We didn’t know what to wear. We kind of got dressed up, walked, you know, because I’m like, what did we have no idea what to expect.

Terri Mead 59:22
So we go over, we get in line. It was really nice to see diversity in terms of color, people’s skin, ages, and bodies. That was very reassuring as an aging woman. And we get in, we start walking around, and it’s a janky place. It is not a nice place. If we’re going to do that, it’s got to be super high-end. What really killed it is that we’re walking around, is we see this older guy walking around with white socks and tennis shoes, carrying his clothes, and he was butt ass naked, walking around, and all like, first of all, it was just gross to me. And I was like, I am not sitting on anything that. His bare ass, he sat on, and so we made, we made our loop.

Terri Mead 1:00:04
I mean, it was the voyeur zone. It was a little bit fun, but I think it was still early in the night, and we left, and I think we went back and had fun sex on our own, or we did the next morning, because I think it was late, but it was like, yeah, that’s not, that’s not our scene. So I think with the experimentation, also realizing that, you know, you don’t have to do it all. You can find the things that work for you. Keep experimenting. But not everything has to be. Fantasy is very powerful.

Kevin Anthony 1:00:34
A couple of things you shared there. This is, this is one that is hard for a lot of men to understand, but you know, women will have fantasies, and the men think, okay, I can make that happen. Like we hear, you have a fantasy, I’m going to make it happen, right? Because a lot of men just don’t realize that women don’t actually want every fantasy to come to fruition. For instance, one of the top fantasies for all women is a rape fantasy. Statistics show they’ve done research on this. It’s one of the top fantasies that women have. But do women actually want to be raped? Of course not. It’s a fantasy, and it should stay in fantasy land. So that’s a total aside.

Kevin Anthony 1:01:10
But I love all the things that you both shared about what you did and what worked and what didn’t work. I love that idea of staying open, being curious, being able to try new things, laughing about it when they don’t work. Oh, by the way, you mentioned we talked about doing the threesome, you know, and doing that, that is another one that comes up very frequently for couples. When they’re struggling in the bedroom or in the relationship, they think, Well, my needs aren’t getting met. So maybe if we bring in a third person and I get my needs met, it’ll all just work out. It’s about the same as we’re on the verge of divorce, so let’s have a kid, right? It’s about the same as that. It never works. It always complicates things and makes it worse. I always tell people all the time, if you want to do that, you have to start from being in a really stable, strong relationship, because it’s going to challenge you. So don’t ever think that’s a fix for any of this.

Terri Mead 1:02:06
Yeah, we weren’t up to that challenge.

Kevin Anthony 1:02:09
I love your story. I’ve been, I’ve been, I’ve been to quite a few sex clubs myself, and I’ve seen a lot of what you are talking about. And I’ve been through a similar experience. I’ve told this story on the show before, too. The first time I ever went to a sex club, it was with my girlfriend. And think I was roughly 27-ish or so, so I was pretty young, and we both were okay, we’re gonna do it. We’re gonna do it. And he had to make reservations to go to this one. So we made reservations. We showed up. We’re sitting in the parking lot. Turn the car off, and I’m noticing nobody’s getting out of the car, and all of a sudden I look at her. I’m like, You sure you want to go in? She looks at me, and she’s like, I don’t know, you sure you want to go in? And we just sat there for a few minutes looking at each other, and we’re like, let’s get out of here. We took off. We never even went in. We did eventually go back, and we saw a lot of exactly what you were just sharing there, but I think that’s again, very common and very normal, and a lot of people go through something very similar to that.

Terri Mead 1:03:08
Have you wanted to go back again?

Kevin Anthony 1:03:13
I’ve been many times since then. I’ve had many different experiences than that. But you know this, you were rightly pointing out. You have to choose your place wisely. You have to manage your expectations properly. You have to be really, really solid with your partner. And, yeah, but that’s a whole other show, actually.

Terri Mead 1:03:31
Well, now we just travel around the world, and we just have sex in all sorts of different places, you know, hotel rooms, Airbnbs, home exchanges, and we just, you know, we just change the locale.

Kevin Anthony 1:03:41
Yeah, you know my current partner. So, most of my listeners know, obviously, I was married. My wife passed away. I’ve been in a new relationship since then, and that is actually sort of the fantasy of my current partner. She says, she says she wants to travel the world and be bent over every balcony.

Terri Mead 1:04:02
I can relate.

Kevin Anthony 1:04:05
All right. I know you guys have a new business, and it’s part of the reason why you’re out here talking to me. Please tell everybody where they can find out. Well, tell them what your business is and how they can get in touch with you.

Terri Mead 1:04:18
Well, we are very, very different people. I don’t know you may not. Maybe that doesn’t come across, but we are incredibly different people. And in fact, during one of the therapy sessions that we went through with someone, the gal said, I can’t believe you two were together. You’re so incredibly different. We’re like That is not very helpful to us, and you’re fired. So anyway, one of the things that common interest of ours, besides our kids and the fact that we’ve known each other forever, is we love to travel and we love to push ourselves beyond our comfort zones, which we describe as adventure.

Terri Mead 1:04:50
So in a very weak moment, I convinced Zeke, about two years ago, to launch Zeke and Terry adventures, where we want to inspire other mid-lifers. Just people over the age of 50 to get out, get uncomfortable, and go adventure, however you describe, describe or define adventure, because Zeke’s type of adventure is different from my type of adventure, but we try to find some commonality. So if you go to Zekeandterry.com, you can see all of our social media stuff, whether it’s blog posts, postcards from the road travel bingo cards. We also have a YouTube channel. Zeke just finished a two-week cycling trip from Munich to Venice, while I did two weeks alone in Strasbourg, France, working on my French, exploring on my own as an identical twin, I shared a womb with someone. So, being doing stuff solo is a little bit hard.

Terri Mead 1:05:42
Zeke’s an only child, so that’s always just an interesting thing for us to navigate. So our YouTube channel is Zeke and Terry Adventures. We’re on Instagram is Zeke and Terry’s adventures. You know, TikTok. We’re everywhere. And then I wrote a book to inspire women over the age of 40 to define design and live a life of her own creation called Piloting Your Life. I’m a commercially rated helicopter pilot, so all of my branding is around aviation. So if you’re a woman over 40 wondering what is going on and you want to define what’s next, you can check out piloting your life.

Kevin Anthony 1:06:18
Awesome. You know, I definitely would not have said to you what your therapist said. But part of the reason why I wanted you guys to tell your story is because from the moment I first spoke to you, I could tell you were very different people. And what, what makes that interesting, in a sense, is that you found ways to make it work, right? And so it’s too many times I see, well, we’re just too different. We’re just too different. People just give up, right? So that’s part of your inspiring story, is that despite your differences and all the challenges, you still found a way to make it work. So all right. Zeke Terry, I want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing your story.

Zeke Mead 1:07:00
Thank you very much for having us.

Terri Mead 1:07:02
It’s been a wild ride.

Kevin Anthony 1:07:04
Alright, everybody that’s all the time I have for this episode, and I will see you next week.

Kevin Anthony 1:07:15
I hope you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe, leave me a review and share it with your friends, and for more free exclusive content, join me in the passion vault at https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. That’s https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/. Thanks for listening, and remember, as Celine used to say, you’re amazing!